[quetzalcoatl]

Contrapunctus:

Just remember an ideology cannot exist in the abstract. It is particularist; embedded in a particular time and culture, it must provide both a vision of what might be and a road map of how to get there. Do not accept evasiveness on this last point.

What exists now must be the launching pad for what you hope to achieve. Society is built on inertia. You cannot un-evolve that which is already evolved, you can only shift the direction of the evolution. And even that is fraught with difficulty and uncertainty.

Do not fall prey to the siren song of revolution unless you can reasonably hope to put together some kind of scenario that would enable you to focus its direction. Do you have a sufficiently large disciplined cadre infiltrated into the police, military, judiciary, and the media? If not, then your revolution is absolutely guaranteed to produce a bad outcome, that is to say, an even stronger repressive authoritarian regime.

Never forget that there are a lot of clever people who are just no damn good. In any chaotic environment, they will seize the opportunity to divert your revolution to their own ends. Can you handle these people by the hundreds, and the thousands? Are you willing to do so?

Most of the ideologies represented here in pofo have some real world world historical representations. The most valuable thing you can do to further your own political education is an honest forensic analysis of their failures. You will see a few ideologies that have no real world analogs, and these are the ones that you must view with the most suspicion. If you hear the phrase "capitalism, the unknown ideal" then you must ask yourself why it is unknown; chances are there are very good reasons idealist programs of various stripes are never implemented.

Be skeptical, and challenge your own preconceptions. Start from the center and understand what you really believe and why. There are a lot of smart people, listen and learn.

[Contrapunctus]

That was extremely insightful and I'll take it to heart. Thank you serpent lord.

[J Oswald]

With an Xbox 360 and a bad attitude.

Sounds like half the people I knew in high school. Nowadays, they're all either mundane left-liberals or self-proclaimed "socialists" (Read: identity politics-driven moronic left-liberals who have appropriated socialist terminology but none of socialism's tenets).

I was a teenaged right-libertarian, myself.

[Contrapunctus]

Sounds like half the people I knew in high school. Nowadays, they're all either mundane left-liberals or self-proclaimed "socialists" (Read: identity politics-driven moronic left-liberals who have appropriated socialist terminology but none of socialism's tenets).

I was a teenaged right-libertarian, myself.

Oh to be young again. I guess I'm left liberal for the most part. Although I see trends in the left that are annoying and or disturbing.

[Dagoth Ur]

Fuser is right. The only way to be legit is to roll with Uncle Joe.

[mikema63]

I prefer unaffiliated marxism, want to avoid the sectarian nonsense.

[Contrapunctus]

Fuser is right. The only way to be legit is to roll with Uncle Joe.

He'll still send you to a very nice Siberian Ski Resort.

[Dagoth Ur]

Not if you don't suck.

Oh and give it time Mike. Soon you will understand the value of Comrade Stalin's guiding hand.

[Contrapunctus]

Bukharin didn't suck and he still got the axe.

[fuser]

He'll still send you to a very nice Siberian Ski Resort.

Another example of uber coolness of comrade Stalin.

I prefer unaffiliated marxism, want to avoid the sectarian nonsense.

Well, Comrade Stalin did banished sectarian nonsense. I like where you are heading, mike.

Bukharin didn't suck and he still got the axe.

If he got an axe by gentle father of nations, then by definition, he sucked.

[Contrapunctus]

I figured at least one person the forum would show some love to the Good Bolshevik Bukharin.

[fuser]

No, everyone denounced him even his pet dog.

[Contrapunctus]

This forum seems so much colder and darker now.

[Dagoth Ur]

If you'd just look to Uncle Joe you'd see the Blinding Light of Bolshevism and the warm embrace of our Soviet Motherland.

[Contrapunctus]

Looks warm to me.

[Dagoth Ur]

The coldness of your liberal heart paints it so. Uncle Joe would show you the way, if only you'd follow. He is the Great Helmsman afterall.

[Contrapunctus]

I can't grow the required facial hair. My lip hair is weaselly at best.

[Dagoth Ur]

You don't need to be able to grow a mustache, Comrade Stalin has grown one large enough for all!

[SpaciousBox]

Sounds like we have much to agree on, Contrapunctus. I'd enjoy challenging your economic assertions at some point. Why, for example, do you believe companies would allow you to tax them on Green issues? Are you going to prevent them from leaving the country and making thousands of workers redundant? What structure will oversee the Republic and it's lack of lobbying? How do you intend to prevent these companies from buying political power? These are all challenges that us in the modern left face and issues very few people seem to have honest answers for. Leave these Stalinist dogs to their power-grabs and come join us in the far more civilized Liberalism sub-forum. We could really use some healthy discussion there!

[Contrapunctus]

Sounds like we have much to agree on, Contrapunctus. I'd enjoy challenging your economic assertions at some point. Why, for example, do you believe companies would allow you to tax them on Green issues? Are you going to prevent them from leaving the country and making thousands of workers redundant? What structure will oversee the Republic and it's lack of lobbying?

That's a big crux for modern republics. One one hand you let them stay, give them tax breaks, and they get off the hook easy. On the other hand, you punish them, they leave the country and shaft domestic workers. Then again, from what little I've observed about economics, it seems as countries develop, their use for mass production of bulk goods decreases, and instead they focus on producing smaller amounts of specialty products. That's why you have a large majority of produced goods made in China, since America has better things to spend capital on than cheap manufactured goods. Is the mobility of companies a flaw in a nation? Or is it a natural part of Capitalism.

Truth be told I'm fine with some lobbying. Corporate lobbying is the only major concern I have for a republican government. If such lobbying is allowed, you run the risk of misrepresentation of the people, and other problems like a Military Industrial Complex.

I'd like to have a "control" branch of the government that would monitor and publicize legislative matters including lobbying. This branch would still be elected by the people and subject to the law. It would probably worth in conjunction with the judicial branch to bring up charges against any legislator who overstepped his bounds in lobbying. I base this off the ideals of Sun Yan-Sen and it needs refinement. Legislation could also be passed to limit how much money could be used for lobbying, who can lobby, etc.

These are all challenges that us in the modern left face and issues very few people seem to have honest answers for. Leave these Stalinist dogs to their power-grabs and come join us in the far more civilized Liberalism sub-forum. We could really use some healthy discussion there!

They may be Stalinist, but they are a colorful bunch. I'll see you there my friend.