Why Can't We Have a World Government? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Any other minor ideologies.
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#14595952
Don't worry, once TPP is implemented, the concept of having separate governments will become useless. Essentially, the local governments will have to comply with private courts rule on lawsuits that affect foreign businesses. For example, if a local government decides to raise minimum wage from $5 to $8, and a private foreign company sees this as affecting its business strategy, you'll see less and less local changes and more unified decisions on wages, pandering to the bourgeois class.

It might not be one world government exactly, but a large portion of the earth will eventually be under one government.
#14595956
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:Before I reply to this, I need some clarification. Do you believe that people in the developed world will not see a massive drop in their living standard if we extended the rights that people in developed countries enjoy to everybody?

Yes they will probably see a drop in their living standard.

OK fine. I am not saying we go and donate all our money to poor countries. But we can at least stop supporting bad guys, can't we?
By bad guys, I mean people who make the living standards in other countries terrible. Can we at least stop supporting those?
#14596051
Does that mean that Germany should stop selling weapons to Saudia Arabia (by your definition, they are "bad guys", because they are surely fucking up living conditions in Yemen right now)? But then Saudia Arabia would buy weapons from Russia or (gasp!) France! We can't have that! If they have to buy weapons, they should buy German weapons.
#14596055
What does "support" mean?

I was told in previous thread a must take responsibility for supporting bad government.

So if I buy chinese goods I support their human rights record?

Trade is trade. We can trade with who we like without liking them or "supporting" them. It is not our problem when third worlders governments are corrupt where we want to buy resources. If their people dont like it then they should start a movement for change. One that doesnt rely on shaming rich customers.

World government is a bad idea because we thrive on competition.
#14596105
Saeko wrote:
I can't help but notice that many of your sentences start with "I want" but none which start with "we need."

Honestly, it's easy to go on and on about liberty and what "I want" when the government has policies in place to make sure you have enough food in your belly and aren't constantly living in fear of being killed by roving biker gangs.

When the shit hits the fan, you will either trade every last right and liberty for some food and a gun. That, or you'll be dead.



You do know that all atrocities committed in this world are all because of what "we want", don't you?

It's always for the greater, or for the common good, that these atrocities are committed.

And the huge flaw about the mentality of society being more important than the individual is this:

You can not have a society of any sort without the consent of the individual.


Because the thing is, once you start into that mentality, you are expected to give and five and give until you collapse and then you have to give some more.

I want a balance somewhere in between that.

The most productive societies are made of happy people, and they are happy because their own individual needs are being seen to.

A society that gives nothing to the individual and only takes from the individual, is nothing more than a tyranny, and quite possibly a form of vampirism, sucking us all dry.

I place more importance on the individual rather than the collective. All collectives are nothing more than tyrannies.

And that is what is tearing America apart.

one collective says that the homosexual is not normal and msut not be allowed to marry.

The other collective says there is nothing wrong with being homosexual and so you must accept them and allow them to be married.

And they're both yelling and screaming at each over this, and many things, and are hurting each other. Why? Because they both think that we all have to obey their collective and be like them.

There are many other examples of this junk too.

And I simply do not need a collective.

As I am not an insect with a hive mind.

I am an individual.

And I would rather die than live in that world.
#14596121
Human beings are extremely social animals and peoples opinions, values, and actions are heavily influenced and reinforced by social groups. We arent that unlike an insect colony, we are simply smarter.
#14596124
alithinker wrote:When I say equal rights, that is what I mean. And in fact, I argue, once you have "equality" between people, you open the door to an infinite amount of creativity and innovation that makes the impoverishment and development of civilization much easier and faster.

What you are envisioning is known as a Utopia, I think? It's not a new idea at all, goes way way back (Plato). It's still alive and well, but has a way's to go before it gets global. Here's a link to a site that documents a contemporary utopian community in Spain. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/marinaleda-spanish-communist-village-utopia

It's inspired a lot of writers, notably Sir Thomas Moore's Island (Utopia), James Hiltons Shangri-La (Lost Horizons), and HG Wells "Planet out beyond Sirius" (A Modern Utopia). It also inspired several American attempts to create Utopian Communities from the mid 19th century to the present. One that I find most interesting (about 1 hr from where I live in Az.) is Paolo Soleri's Archosanti. Soleri was an architect who envisioned creating a contemporary environment that would foster a small utopian community. Today it's mostly a tourist attraction, but construction and planning is still active. Since the 1970s over 7,000 volunteers have contributed to building it. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/16/garden/an-early-eco-city-faces-the-future.html?_r=0

Kaiserschmarrn wrote:Do you believe that people in the developed world will not see a massive drop in their living standard if we extended the rights that people in developed countries enjoy to everybody?

Yes, it definitely requires sacrifice. Powerful interests in the USA and Western world have been implementing such a policy since the Nixon Administration in the 1970s began by exporting America's steel industry. Obviously, "rights" do not develop overnight, but the programs success is easily seen in the improvements accomplished in many 3rd world areas. China being an outstanding example. The American people were not privy to this program which has caused the steady decline in American living standards and generally negative political repercussions. Yet it continues, Obama's recent trading update being an excellent example.

Zam

-Utopia was here at last: its novelty had not yet been assailed by the supreme enemy of all Utopias—boredom- Arthur C. Clarke,
#14596164
We already have a world government. It is not an absolute hegemon, since there are still active power centers that are effectively able to oppose it. However, it continues its attempts to extend its reach.

This world government operates alongside the existing national structures, embedded within these structures and quietly guiding their direction. The fact that this government is essentially transnational in character is demonstrated by actions that are objectively destructive of national interests (as in the case of Greece).

This is the only type of world government that is conceivable, absent a truly revolutionary change in political consciousness.
#14596170
No, not that world govenment. Alithinker meant the other one, you know, the wise and gentle one!
#14596172
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:Average GDP per capita in the world is ~ $13,000 (on a purchasing power parity basis)
I make it about $12,000.
#14596176
Iron Ant wrote:You do know that all atrocities committed in this world are all because of what "we want", don't you?

It's always for the greater, or for the common good, that these atrocities are committed.

And the huge flaw about the mentality of society being more important than the individual is this:

You can not have a society of any sort without the consent of the individual.


Because the thing is, once you start into that mentality, you are expected to give and five and give until you collapse and then you have to give some more.

I want a balance somewhere in between that.

The most productive societies are made of happy people, and they are happy because their own individual needs are being seen to.

A society that gives nothing to the individual and only takes from the individual, is nothing more than a tyranny, and quite possibly a form of vampirism, sucking us all dry.

I place more importance on the individual rather than the collective. All collectives are nothing more than tyrannies.

And that is what is tearing America apart.

one collective says that the homosexual is not normal and msut not be allowed to marry.

The other collective says there is nothing wrong with being homosexual and so you must accept them and allow them to be married.

And they're both yelling and screaming at each over this, and many things, and are hurting each other. Why? Because they both think that we all have to obey their collective and be like them.

There are many other examples of this junk too.

And I simply do not need a collective.

As I am not an insect with a hive mind.

I am an individual.

And I would rather die than live in that world.


Why aren't you living alone in the wilderness, then?
#14596181
'Cause no internet, duh! How are you going to tell the world how hard is sucks with no internet access?
#14596182
'Cause no internet, duh! How are you going to tell the world how hard is sucks with no internet access?

Good point, Frollein. Next thing we know, he'll be telling us how we're all born alone and we all die alone, forgetting the fact that his mother at least was present when he was born. And probably a midwife and a doctor, too. Lol!
#14596254
Saeko wrote:
Why aren't you living alone in the wilderness, then?


Because the forces of conformity would not leave me alone. They fear anyone who thinks for them self and they can not have individuality under any circumstances.

So they must come after me one way or another.

So I have no other choice in the matter.
#14596330
Iron Ant wrote:Because the forces of conformity would not leave me alone. They fear anyone who thinks for them self and they can not have individuality under any circumstances.

So they must come after me one way or another.

So I have no other choice in the matter.


I thought you said you would rather die than live as a part of a collective.
#14596582
alithinker wrote:Yes they will probably see a drop in their living standard.

Thank you.

In a way, what you want to achieve has already been happening for decades: living standards are improving everywhere, although we are also seeing (localised) regression at times which is to be expected. Nothing humans do ever works perfectly all the time. Overall, the trend is clear, although perhaps not as quickly improving as you'd like to see.

alithinker wrote:OK fine. I am not saying we go and donate all our money to poor countries. But we can at least stop supporting bad guys, can't we?
By bad guys, I mean people who make the living standards in other countries terrible. Can we at least stop supporting those?

As others have pointed out, you'd need to be more specific to get useful replies. What's your threshold(s) regarding "bad guys"? Since you mentioned free speech, are violations to free speech already sufficient for a country to be considered "bad" by "us"? We'd have to stop supporting a large number of countries in this case. And what exactly do you mean by support or the lack of it? Should we just tolerate the "bad guys" or actively work against them? What if they have resources that we need or are located where they can prevent resources reaching us?

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