European roots of Trump’s ‘America First’ - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Any other minor ideologies.
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#14767670
One Degree wrote:I started to look through the extremely lengthy link you provided, but gave up when I saw it was simply a press release from a polling group I had never heard of. At a quick glance, it takes the views of 897 people in North Carolina to come up with these results. I do not view this as credible evidence of anything.

It's a well-known polling company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Policy_Polling
It was polling for the NC primary, and 897 is a reasonable sample size to use - few polls use more than 1000. I gave you the important finding - 10% thinks whites are a superior race. You wanted numbers.

noir wrote:<quote from Rich>
Any objection?

Oh yes, I have many objections to Rich. Just in that post, he's being prejudiced and bigoted.

After 9/11 there were reports of celebration amongst Muslim community in Brooklyn (yeah, Linda Sarsour of Women March hometown, have you any doubt that her clan were on it? ), she herself is connected with family ties to the Islamists (Hamas). On which parallel world the Americans are living for letting this situation to unfold?

"Have you any doubt?" What a load of bollocks. Brooklyn is "hometown" to 2.5 million people. Trying to tie her to unsourced "reports" somewhere among 2.5 million people is prejudice. We do know that people showed Trump's claims of seeing people celebrating in New York were lies, and that no one found decent evidence of it happening.

This is the trouble with Trump's Deplorables - spreading, or inventing, rumours about a few Muslims, and then trying to use them to justify authoritarian actions against the entire group. It is a classic fascist tactic. It does show the opening article is fully justified.
#14767680
I gave you the important finding - 10% thinks whites are a superior race. You wanted numbers.


Thank you and I do appreciate you supplying numbers. I find North Carolina suspect as a representative of racism in the US, but will admit surprise they could even find 10% there. Arguing about the credibility of the poll serves no purpose, so I will just compliment your diligence. ;)
#14767757
On the topic of superiority, it would have been more interesting if there were multiple questions asked in sequence without showing them all in advance:

1.) Is US as a country superior to Mexico?
2.) Are Americans superior to Mexicans?
3.) If answer to 1. was yes and to 2. no, what makes US superior?

How many people would be baited to answer yes to 1, but no to 2?
#14767816
3.) If answer to 1. was yes and to 2. no, what makes US superior?

There are cultural and historical reasons for America's current superiority over Mexico in most indices of development. For example, few people would dispute that Britain has been a more successful nation than Italy over the past couple of centuries, yet a couple of millennia ago, Italians (well Romans actually) were far superior to Britons in almost every way. Britain was a minor province of the Roman Empire, the kind of province most Roman soldiers dreaded being posted to, while Italy was the centre of the civilised world. Does this mean the Italians lost their 'vigor' as a people (whatever that means) while the Britons, for some mysterious unexplained reason, gained the 'vigor' which the Italians, equally mysteriously, had lost? Do you see the fallacy of ascribing all the success of a nation only to the 'quality' of the people who inhabit it?
#14767825
Potemkin wrote:There are cultural and historical reasons for America's current superiority over Mexico in most indices of development. For example, few people would dispute that Britain has been a more successful nation than Italy over the past couple of centuries, yet a couple of millennia ago, Italians (well Romans actually) were far superior to Britons in almost every way. Britain was a minor province of the Roman Empire, the kind of province most Roman soldiers dreaded being posted to, while Italy was the centre of the civilised world. Does this mean the Italians lost their 'vigor' as a people (whatever that means) while the Britons, for some mysterious unexplained reason, gained the 'vigor' which the Italians, equally mysteriously, had lost? Do you see the fallacy of ascribing all the success of a nation only to the 'quality' of the people who inhabit it?


You do not see the fallacy of ignoring the quality factor of a particular group of people to a success of their country? So you saying put any group of people in that time and place and they would replicate Roman success? You know how ridiculous that sounds?
#14767833
You do not see the fallacy of ignoring the quality factor of a particular group of people to a success of their country? So you saying put any group of people in that time and place and they would replicate Roman success? You know how ridiculous that sounds?

People are shaped by their time and place just as much as they shape it, Oxy. Nations therefore rise and fall over historical time, despite having 'the same' people living in them. Sooner or later, history fucks everyone over.
#14767835
Potemkin wrote:People are shaped by their time and place just as much as they shape it, Oxy. Nations therefore rise and fall over historical time, despite having 'the same' people living in them. Sooner or later, history fucks everyone over.



I see your point, but at same time going back to Roman example the down fall began as Barbarian groups started moving into Europe and Caliphate moving in later in Middle East.
#14767837
And yet Trump could not be more American. Trump is what an American without ideology looks like. I believe that the Alt-Right's influence on Trump is overstated. I would echo the conclusions of others in the thread on Trump's apolitical character. Somehow I doubt he is reading the books of Francis Parker Yockey or Julius Evola during his spare time. Trump's isolationism is probably more likely to be inspired by the folkish American common man sentiments highly characteristic of the American white industrial working class. Afterall, that is the sort of environment his family come from. Trump is a cowboy, not cerebral but intuitive and reactive rather than contemplative. To say Trump is a fascist or inspired by the far right tradition is inaccurate. Trump's ideology, if he has any conscious one, is pure American liberal conservatism.
#14767841
I see your point, but at same time going back to Roman example the down fall began as Barbarian groups started moving into Europe and Caliphate moving in later in Middle East.

The threat posed by the barbarians of the 5th century AD was no greater than the threat posed by the Teutones and the Cimbri in the 2nd century BC. In both cases, Rome faced an imminent existential threat. Yet the Teutones and the Cimbri were repelled so effectively that they were never a threat to anyone ever again, whereas Rome fell in the 5th century AD and never rose as an empire again. The intervening centuries had changed the Roman people, Oxy. They were the same people, and yet not the same....
#14767940
Potemkin wrote:They were the same people, and yet not the same....

Genetics are stupid. It's socioeconomic factors that determine the success or failure of a society.

That's why nationalists usually fail. They believe in the myth of genetics, while their extremism tends to rupture the fine net of the social fabric that is the guarantor for economic success.
#14768243
The State Department’s entire senior management team just resigned


I am confused by the article. It is required they all turn in their resignations when a new President takes over.
Is the article saying they simply walked out and will not help the transition?
This is either slanted news or these top senior management officials think so little of their country that they should never have had their positions to begin with.
The article seems to want to criticize Trump, but it seems to do the opposite for me. :?:
#14768247
This is either slanted news or these top senior management officials think so little of their country


They were thinking little about their country when they refused to recognise Islamic terrorism as such. Good riddence. After dacades of stalemate there is an opportunity to new thinking.
#14769901
http://www.dw.com/en/mistakes-during-re ... a-37322704

'Mistakes' during refugee influx, says Germany's Schäuble
Wolfgang Schäuble, a veteran ally of Angela Merkel, has admitted the cabinet made "mistakes" during Germany's large intake of refugees in 2015. He wants lower standardized​ EU welfare payments for asylum-seekers.



https://www.rt.com/news/373739-merkel-p ... l-resigns/

Merkel’s CDU human rights speaker quits party over ‘open door’ refugee policy

She claimed that Merkel’s cabinet had deliberately encouraged illegal immigration: “At the Federal Office for Migration, thousands of passports have been identified as counterfeit, without any legal consequences for the respective migrants being drawn. There is a political will behind it.”

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