Gender Identity - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
User avatar
By Seeker8
#14843006
You don't think that's stupid? ok well maybe you should learn the difference then come back.

Also, What position of mine did my quote contradict?
#14843053
The Immortal Goon wrote:That's the most logical argument about this, though I'd point out that by the same reasoning booze and sweets should be outlawed as they provide no nutritional value and contribute to the single largest medical expenses.

And that is presuming, of course, that the medical and capital system in such a society is running at a peak efficiency where there is no other types of cosmetic surgery and wastes of money.

And this is, possibly, a discussion to be had.

I suspect that for most, if we're being completely honest with ourselves and each other, is a convenient financial issue in order to justify a long discussion about our feelings. Which, as I think I've made clear, is a discussion I'm in no way interested in having.

The financial aspect is only a minor problem.

Alcoholics can stop drinking, people can stop eating sweets and lose weight but the procedures involved in having sex change surgery are life long and drastic. It is the intentional malformation of a funtioning body by medical profesionals.

But even greater than my concern for people suffering with such a horrendous illness, which believe me is genuine, is the implication for society as a whole when governments feel it within their remit to dictate and alter reality as they see fit.
User avatar
By Seeker8
#14843062
How do trans people have a mental illness?

The same type of people decades ago were saying gays had a mental illness.
#14843070
jessupjonesjnr87 wrote:The financial aspect is only a minor problem.

Alcoholics can stop drinking, people can stop eating sweets and lose weight but the procedures involved in having sex change surgery are life long and drastic.


Regardless, it still is the single largest part of health costs. But you acknowledge that the financial aspect is a minor problem, so fair play.

jessupjonesjnr87 wrote:It is the intentional malformation of a funtioning body by medical profesionals.


So is cosmetic surgery. Not something I'd do, but at the end of the day, it's not really my place to tell everyone how I feel about it.

jessupjonesjnr87 wrote:But even greater than my concern for people suffering with such a horrendous illness, which believe me is genuine, is the implication for society as a whole when governments feel it within their remit to dictate and alter reality as they see fit.


No government requires it. I have my own feelings about it too, but they are irrelevant. So are yours.
#14843078
Seeker8 wrote:How do trans people have a mental illness?

The same type of people decades ago were saying gays had a mental illness.

No you're like the people decades ago supporting the idea that transpeople require horrific surgeries and hormone therapies to be normal whereas we should be promoting that they should be proud of the bodies they were born into.

@The Immortal Goon. When governments start altering official documents and changing policies then yes it does becone relevant.
#14843130
jessupjonesjnr87 wrote:When governments start altering official documents and changing policies then yes it does becone relevant.


That depends on the document, intention, etc. If someone wants to change their name on their driver's license, or their weight, hair color, or any other damned thing—including gender—it's no skin off my back. Again, I may have my own opinions about any one of those things, but I see no reason to have a safe space to talk about my feelings.
#14843171
Driving license are official state document that state the sex of the owner. You cant change your sex, it's as simple as that.

Do you think sex change operations actually change a persons sex like transgender people are led to believe?

And look it's no skin off my nose either but this is a discussion forum. We're not here to change government policy, we're here to discuss issues and politics and to just sweet the transgender issue under the carpet and forget about it just because it may not affect you directly on a daily basis is to do them a diservice.
User avatar
By Seeker8
#14843172
jessupjonesjnr87 wrote:No you're like the people decades ago supporting the idea that transpeople require horrific surgeries and hormone therapies to be normal whereas we should be promoting that they should be proud of the bodies they were born into.

I don't want anyone to have "horrific surgeries and hormone therapies " and either do transgender people, but they feel they have no choice because they are suffering.

I don't think we should be promoting anything, people can make up their own mind what to do with their own bodies. Maybe you should mind your own business.

You're claiming they are mentally ill and can't decide what to do for themselves, exactly what was done with gay people in the past.
By Buzz62
#14843179
Should one of my kids have mental issues, I would be there for him.
That includes some sort of trans issues.
That does not change the fact that its a mental issue.
If you can't even bring yourself to face facts about any issue, how the fuck can you hope to deal with that issue?
User avatar
By Igor Antunov
#14843185
Buzz62 wrote:Should one of my kids have mental issues, I would be there for him.
That includes some sort of trans issues.
That does not change the fact that its a mental issue.
If you can't even bring yourself to face facts about any issue, how the fuck can you hope to deal with that issue?


Damn straight.
User avatar
By Seeker8
#14843198
Buzz62 wrote:Should one of my kids have mental issues, I would be there for him.
That includes some sort of trans issues.
That does not change the fact that its a mental issue.
If you can't even bring yourself to face facts about any issue, how the fuck can you hope to deal with that issue?


Except no one said it wasn't a mental issue.

Don't you get tired writing irrelevant posts?
By Buzz62
#14843205
Seeker8 wrote:Except no one said it wasn't a mental issue.

Don't you get tired writing irrelevant posts?

A 2009 MRI study by Luders et al. of 24 MtF transsexuals not yet treated with cross-sex hormones found that regional gray matter concentrations were more similar to men than women, but there was a significantly larger volume of gray matter in the right putamen compared to men. Like earlier studies, it concluded that transsexualism was associated with a distinct cerebral pattern.[15] (MRI allows easier study of larger brain structures, but independent nuclei are not visible due to lack of contrast between different neurological tissue types, hence other studies on e.g. BSTc were done by dissecting brains post-mortem.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality
There is ongoing study of this phenomena, because SCIENCE isn't directed by fools who talk out their asses...
User avatar
By Seeker8
#14843212
Well done, another irrelevant post telling me about the causes of transexualism in response to me saying "no one said it wasn't a mental issue".

How does that make sense?
By Buzz62
#14843220
Seeker8 wrote:Well done, another irrelevant post telling me about the causes of transexualism in response to me saying "no one said it wasn't a mental issue".

How does that make sense?

Perhaps it was this...
Seeker8 wrote:How do trans people have a mental illness?

:roll:
#14843235
jessupjonesjnr87 wrote:Driving license are official state document that state the sex of the owner. You cant change your sex, it's as simple as that.

Do you think sex change operations actually change a persons sex like transgender people are led to believe?


Is the the ship of Theseus still the same ship?

I might have feelings about it--I wouldn't date someone that used to be a man--but other people might not and who I want to bang and why isn't really effective government conversation.

And look it's no skin off my nose either but this is a discussion forum. We're not here to change government policy, we're here to discuss issues and politics and to just sweet the transgender issue under the carpet and forget about it just because it may not affect you directly on a daily basis is to do them a diservice.


Then I'd simply repeat my own mantra that this seems to be, when I look at it with myself as much as anybody else's reaction, an emotional issue. The government should optimally dictate things coldly and without taking into account my feelings, or the feelings of any other individual, at the expense of any person or group of people.
#14843240
Seeker8 wrote:I don't want anyone to have "horrific surgeries and hormone therapies " and either do transgender people, but they feel they have no choice because they are suffering.

I don't think we should be promoting anything, people can make up their own mind what to do with their own bodies. Maybe you should mind your own business.

You're claiming they are mentally ill and can't decide what to do for themselves, exactly what was done with gay people in the past.

You just said it yourself, these people are suffering. Whether it be an illness or disorder there is sonething wrong with their mental state and transgender appears to me to be the only mental issue where irreversable surgery on a health body is a prescribed option.

@The Immortal Goon
If as you say governments should act without taking individual feelings into account then why are they falsifying state documents?
#14843268
jessupjonesjnr87 wrote:If as you say governments should act without taking individual feelings into account then why are they falsifying state documents?


Two reasons.

1. whether or not someone considers him or herself one thing or another isn't ultimately that important on a driver's license. My mom's license probably says she has dark hair, and that hasn't been true for decades.

Mine probably says I weigh a buck eighty, which hasn't been true for decades. I just can't be arsed to go in there and change it. Or really, weigh myself first.

2. There is discussion about what a gender is versus a sex, etc, etc, etc. I know how I feel about this, but I in no way feel qualified to dictate to everyone else how I feel about it—or even demand a safe space to air my feelings about it. Because, as mentioned, my feelings about it are irrelevant.
User avatar
By Seeker8
#14843295
jessupjonesjnr87 wrote:You just said it yourself, these people are suffering. Whether it be an illness or disorder there is sonething wrong with their mental state and transgender appears to me to be the only mental issue where irreversable surgery on a health body is a prescribed option.


Yea and you want to stop them doing the only thing (found so far) that stops their sufferering. For what reason? Because you've decided you know better than them?

What about people getting cosmetic surgery, this is also a mental issue because they are unhappy with their body.


Buzz62 wrote:Perhaps it was this...

:roll:


Then why did you quote something else. :lol:

This was our discussion since you seem confused:
Buzz62 wrote:Should one of my kids have mental issues, I would be there for him.
That includes some sort of trans issues.
That does not change the fact that its a mental issue.
If you can't even bring yourself to face facts about any issue, how the fuck can you hope to deal with that issue?


Seeker8 wrote:Except no one said it wasn't a mental issue.
Don't you get tired writing irrelevant posts?
By Buzz62
#14843298
Seeker8 wrote:Yea and you want to stop them doing the only thing (found so far) that stops their sufferering. For what reason? Because you've decided you know better than them?

What about people getting cosmetic surgery, this is also a mental issue because they are unhappy with their body.




Then why did you quote something else. :lol:

This was our discussion since you seem confused:


Image
silly human...
User avatar
By Seeker8
#14843302
A video of a cat. That's about as relevant to the discussion as your usual posts.

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