[mikema63]

MRA's are guys that whine on the internet about how very hard it is to be an unhygenic man living in his mothers basement.

They are also the ones who came up with the alpha male crap, call actually decent men "White knights", and generally moan about not getting easy sex every day from the women they insist on calling sluts for not having constant sex with them.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

In other words, they are spoiled babies who, when exposed to the real world, with real people, can't explain why things aren't being provided on a platter for them like their mommies used to, except to understand it as some kind of feminist conspiracy to dominate society. Merely the way MRA guys talk about women make it pretty obvious they are easily the creepiest fucks you'll ever meet.

[SolarCross]

In other words, they are spoiled babies who, when exposed to the real world, with real people, can't explain why things aren't being provided on a platter for them like their mommies used to, except to understand it as some kind of feminist conspiracy to dominate society. Merely the way MRA guys talk about women make it pretty obvious they are easily the creepiest fucks you'll ever meet.

Yeah that sounds exactly like every lefty, just replace feminist with capitalist.

In other words, they are spoiled babies who, when exposed to the real world, with real people, can't explain why things aren't being provided on a platter for them like their mommies used to, except to understand it as some kind of capitalist conspiracy to dominate society. Merely the way leftard guys talk about entrepreneurs and investors make it pretty obvious they are easily the creepiest fucks you'll ever meet.

[Dystopian Darkness]

Why hate on that?

Because MRA's were founded as a reaction to feminist and their preocupation with child custody is not only twisted but unfounded - They believe child custody being given to women is a female privilege and that makes women oppressors of men and because of that they need to fight females oppressing them, mwahahah - The truth is that men themselves created gender roles and decided that men would be seen (and still are) as hardworking and breadwinners while women are mothers, providers and should take care of children - The natural result of this mentality is that courts will be biased towards women because they will see them as a demographic better qualified to take care of children but men are seen as hardworking and providers so their duty is to provide for children and not take care of them. Why complain about an issue your group cause? Why complain about women when it's not them causing? Do MRA's believe that women like being seen as better for parenting (which discredits other potential qualities like making money, profit and intellectual skills, etc.)?

Aside from that, most child custodies are decided outside courts with friendly agreements so the whole reasoning is biased, and in particular it happens because men work more hours and make more money, so it makes sense that the party who works less keeps the children - Not to mention our own personification of reality is deeply rooted in our mind and thus even victims of stereotypes believe them.

Adding the overwhelming amount of misogyny, trivialization of rape, exaggeration of false rape claims and claims that women can regret sex and accuse men of rape (Seriously I'm a law student and I know for a fact that accusing someone for rape is both complicated and requires lots of commitment and evidence not to mention that laws about intoxication do not say that you can regret sex and prosecute it as a crime), claims that domestic violence affects men more or that women cause it on purpose, etc, why should anyone with half a brain want to be associated with these people? I hold some extremist views and I'm not interested in this fetishism for men's rights, I already have the upper side of the coin

[KlassWar]

There are some pretty serious men's issues: On average, men are on worse health than women and die significantly earlier. Partly because they're less likely to seek treatment for seemingly minor medical conditions (esp. mental disorders) which comes to bite men in the ass when they turn out not to be so minor after all. Men hold most of the unhealthiest and most dangerous jobs, which means higher rates of workplace related disease, injury and death. Men manage to make about 80% of murder victims in the US... But that's largely man-on-man murder. Quite clearly, NONE of these things are feminism's fault. They're actually rooted on patriarchy, of all things.

Bullshit notions of toxic stiff-upper-lip masculinity keep men from seeking treatment for seemingly minor problems. When it comes to men having the deadly jobs, turns out sexist men have tried their damnedest best to keep women out their job niches on the excuse that these jobs are too dangerous. , macho bullshit at work yet again. Feminism isn't at fault for any of this. Sure, family debts, child support and alimony can seriously screw a working class or lower middle class man in divorce court... But that's not feminism's fault either! It's actually conservatives' fault. Conservatives don't want the State to subsidize single-parent households, so the child support and alimony burden falls squarely on the noncustodial parent, which is typically a man because of patriarchy.

It's not that men's issues don't exist, but the MRAs are worse than useless when it comes to address them. They can't correctly identify the problem (patriarchy, conservatism, capitalism) because they're a bunch of conservative mysoginist assholes. They support patriarchy and endorse the bullshit macho culture that's at the root of most of men's own problems. Stands to reason that if incomes were more equal male divorcees would owe less alimony, and they would owe less child support if part of it was subsidized by the State. Men have worse school dropout rates, but rather than supporting policies that would allow working class boys not to drop out they choose to bitch and whine about the educational accomplishments of women. That's a consistent pattern here: Some of the issues affecting men can be addressed constructively with progressive politics, but that would get in the way of MRAs' excuses to whine about women and be pathetic chauvinist losers.

[Decky]

To be honest it would be far better to be dead than to go moaning at people every time you feel upset and to care about your health and stop living an unhealthy life style and all the other reasons we die earlier. I mean sure in a strictly technical sense it's a life but what kind of life? No drinking, fighting or smoking? Doing things safely and responsibly? Bah.

[KlassWar]

I'm wearing the statistical hat, not arguing for an end to the pub life ! The real difference isn't on the boozing and smoking: If the pubs in my town are any indication women drink and smoke too... Somewhat less than we do, but they've got less body mass to soak in booze'n'drugs to begin with, so dosages balance out. *shrug*.

The real man-killer is the (patriarchal) stiff upper lip mentality, anyway . Men are socially trained not to complain and to generally endure stress/pain/discomfort. That's useful in some ways, but it also means a typical man's first reaction to 'minor' disease or injury is to ignore it and hope it goes away. Women deal with these things earlier and it shows in their health.

[One Degree]

Men are socially trained not to complain and to stoically endure stress-pain-discomfort to a point where many don't seek treatment for health issues until they become serious problems, especially true for mental disorders.

Their wives might disagree with you. Men may refuse to go to the doctor, but they probably complain more than women.

[Potemkin]

Their wives might disagree with you. Men may refuse to go to the doctor, but they probably complain more than women.

Men are socially conditioned not to complain about their health or their problems in public. Most men, however, are constantly whingeing to their wives about this, that or the other. We never fucking shut up.

[quetzalcoatl]

There are some pretty serious men's issues: On average, men are on worse health than women and die significantly earlier. Partly because they're less likely to seek treatment for seemingly minor medical conditions (esp. mental disorders) which comes to bite men in the ass when they turn out not to be so minor after all. Men hold most of the unhealthiest and most dangerous jobs, which means higher rates of workplace related disease, injury and death. Men manage to make about 80% of murder victims in the US... But that's largely man-on-man murder. Quite clearly, NONE of these things are feminism's fault. They're actually rooted on patriarchy, of all things.

Bullshit notions of toxic stiff-upper-lip masculinity keep men from seeking treatment for seemingly minor problems. When it comes to men having the deadly jobs, turns out sexist men have tried their damnedest best to keep women out their job niches on the excuse that these jobs are too dangerous. , macho bullshit at work yet again. Feminism isn't at fault for any of this. Sure, family debts, child support and alimony can seriously screw a working class or lower middle class man in divorce court... But that's not feminism's fault either! It's actually conservatives' fault. Conservatives don't want the State to subsidize single-parent households, so the child support and alimony burden falls squarely on the noncustodial parent, which is typically a man because of patriarchy.

It's not that men's issues don't exist, but the MRAs are worse than useless when it comes to address them. They can't correctly identify the problem (patriarchy, conservatism, capitalism) because they're a bunch of conservative mysoginist assholes. They support patriarchy and endorse the bullshit macho culture that's at the root of most of men's own problems. Stands to reason that if incomes were more equal male divorcees would owe less alimony, and they would owe less child support if part of it was subsidized by the State. Men have worse school dropout rates, but rather than supporting policies that would allow working class boys not to drop out they choose to bitch and whine about the educational accomplishments of women. That's a consistent pattern here: Some of the issues affecting men can be addressed constructively with progressive politics, but that would get in the way of MRAs' excuses to whine about women and be pathetic chauvinist losers.

Feminists err when they propose patriarchy as the primary overarching principle governing human relations, while deprecating (or even denying) the importance of economic class. Not that there can't be more than one set of problems affecting people, of course, but there should be a recognized hierarchy of importance. Trying to chip away at patriarchy without addressing economic oppression as the prime target is an exercise in futility.

[Clyde]

Because MRA's were founded as a reaction to feminist and their preocupation with child custody is not only twisted but unfounded - They believe child custody being given to women is a female privilege and that makes women oppressors of men and because of that they need to fight females oppressing them, mwahahah - The truth is that men themselves created gender roles and decided that men would be seen (and still are) as hardworking and breadwinners while women are mothers, providers and should take care of children - The natural result of this mentality is that courts will be biased towards women because they will see them as a demographic better qualified to take care of children but men are seen as hardworking and providers so their duty is to provide for children and not take care of them.

It cannot be both an unfounded claim and the natural result of gender roles. You put the blame squarely on men for the existence of gender roles. The truth is gender roles are influenced by biology and the division of labour is required for the most efficent use of human resources. I don't think you'd hear many women complaining that they were denied their right to build skyscrappers or our sewage system. It's because of the infrastructure built by men that women can sit on their fannies in air conditioned offices.

It's not that men's issues don't exist, but the MRAs are worse than useless when it comes to address them. They can't correctly identify the problem (patriarchy, conservatism, capitalism) because they're a bunch of conservative mysoginist assholes. They support patriarchy and endorse the bullshit macho culture that's at the root of most of men's own problems. Stands to reason that if incomes were more equal male divorcees would owe less alimony, and they would owe less child support if part of it was subsidized by the State. Men have worse school dropout rates, but rather than supporting policies that would allow working class boys not to drop out they choose to bitch and whine about the educational accomplishments of women. That's a consistent pattern here: Some of the issues affecting men can be addressed constructively with progressive politics, but that would get in the way of MRAs' excuses to whine about women and be pathetic chauvinist losers.

Yes, self-described MRAs are their own worst enemies. Men also being disadvanatged by the "patriarchy" undermines the argument of male priviliage. Paying 70% of the taxes, retiring later in life, doing almost all the dangerous jobs and being the victim of 85% of murders does not seem like such a great priviliage to me. I actually admire feminists for their ingenuity and for getting away with this bullshit for so long. The way for men to defeat it is not to create a seperate mens movement but to become self-identified "equal opportunists". A growing number of young women are proudly rejecting the feminist label because they can see its motivated by misandry.

I love men, and I think the idea of 'raise women to power, take the men away from the power' is never going to work out because you need balance," Woodley said. "With myself, I'm very in touch with my masculine side. And I'm 50 percent feminine and 50 percent masculine, same as I think a lot of us are. And I think that is important to note. And also I think that if men went down and women rose to power, that wouldn't work either. We have to have a fine balance.

Shailene Woodley.

Your typical feminist:

The Dworkin.

[Decky]

Men are socially conditioned not to complain about their health or their problems in public. Most men, however, are constantly whingeing to their wives about this, that or the other. We never fucking shut up.

Oh yea that goes without saying. There is a difference between properly formally complaining about something and/ or asking for help and having a good old moan. Obviously people moan about things. The later is fine the former is pathetic.

[KlassWar]

Feminists err when they propose patriarchy as the primary overarching principle governing human relations, while deprecating (or even denying) the importance of economic class. Not that there can't be more than one set of problems affecting people, of course, but there should be a recognized hierarchy of importance. Trying to chip away at patriarchy without addressing economic oppression as the prime target is an exercise in futility.

The patriarchy does exist, but the overarching principle governing human relations is the class struggle. Bourgeois feminists don't honestly err, they deliberately obfuscate the role of class as the primary driver of social conflict, because socialist revolution is very much not in their class interest . Liberal feminism is consciously designed to serve the interests of wealthy women.

The only real feminism is socialist, because liberation from all forms of exploitation can only be achieved by revolutionary, radically egalitarian mass politics.

[The Clockwork Rat]

Dworkin is not a typical feminist. Dworkin was a nutbag. She went through shit which is why she was a nutbag, but she was a nutbag nonetheless. Not a typical feminist.

[TheKrimsonKeiser]

I am an American white male that struggles with anxiety and depression- I understand that I'm not in as bad of a situation as some, but I think it is fair to say that we exist.

HOWEVER,

For what reasons do males and females in the UK typically feel inadequate for?

COULD it be that men tend to ignore their intense feelings because they feel they are expected to "man up," where as women tend to be more encouraged to show emotion in general? ARE men typically more aggressive? If so, is that the reason that men are more successful in committing suicide?

I'm asking all of these questions because I am not well-educated on the issue, yet it interests me nonetheless.

Also, can we define "patriarchy" in a modern sense? I feel like too many people use it expecting others to know exactly what they are saying. Also as an ad hominem.

I do agree that MRA is an overreaction to feminism, and I do think that women have several disadvantages in terms of sexual assault, being hired for certain occupations, etc. However, I don't take anybody that I see as trying to perpetuate a bitter conflict between genders seriously, be it misogynistic MRAs or misandristic fems.

I thought equality was at stake here...

[Lightman]

You know you're at the height of your intellectual powers when half your argument is "my opponents are physically unattractive and fat, lololol." First off, the stereotype of self-described feminists as fat and ugly just is factually inaccurate; the feminists I know represent a wide range of body types. Secondly, so what if a given feminist happens to be unattractive to you? The whole point of feminism is that women are actual people who have worth independent of men being sexually attracted to them.

[Potemkin]

The whole point of feminism is that women are actual people who have worth independent of men being sexually attracted to them.

*gasp* The nerve of these people!

[TheKrimsonKeiser]

You know you're at the height of your intellectual powers when half your argument is "my opponents are physically unattractive and fat, lololol." First off, the stereotype of self-described feminists as fat and ugly just is factually inaccurate; the feminists I know represent a wide range of body types.

I once read a post about male feminists just wanting handjobs because they themselves are "sexually inadequate." I mean c'mon, people! Feminism is a big tent of differing viewpoints.

[One Degree]

I never understood the feminist movement. Women always controlled the world. I don't understand why they wanted to let men know it.

[mikema63]

*facepalm*