[stephen50right]

I am confused by the idea of a businessman needing skills. What skills do you need to sit behind a desk and do nothing while working class people below you do all the work and produce all of the profit?

Isn't it just all perving on pretty secretaries and drinking in the day? What do people in business actually do? You could prop a corpse up behind the desk and no one would notice until it started to smell. This isn't true for people with real jobs like train drivers and dinner ladies and bricklayers and gardeners and cleaners etc. If they vanished the world would be a worse place.

There is honor in all work. Everyone working is needed to help keep our society running as smoothly and efficiently as possible for the benefit of all.

The problem with the leftist dopes out there, they are often seen at the anti-Trump protest marches...is THEY don't wish to work at all. They want basically everything for free provided for by the nanny state offered by today's Democratic Party.

[Decky]

Exactly, everyone needs to work. That is why I am a socialist. The lazy people who do not work (landlords and businessmen and royalty etc) need to be made to actually contribute instead of living for free from the labour of working class people. The problem with right wingers is they don't want to work at all. They want to sit around wearing suits while other people do the work for them.

[Vlerchan]

Nevertheless, I have most often found these people very deficient in knowledge of STEM topics.

But if the skills required to succeed in business aren't found in STEM, I'm not sure why this would be relevant.

Those skills, btw, are more capacities, such as being able to both rapidly and efficiently absorb information, being quickly pick up new skills - esp. when it comes to interfacing with certain systems, being generally pleasant and able to operate within a team. Undergraduate education is, at least in basically all non-STEM disciplines*, really just a screen for these capacities rather than an effort to impart certain skills.

Though, the claim that professors are skill-less just doesn't hold water either. For the most part, taking an AP job requires huge trade-offs against income within STEM, economics and the quantitative social sciences, in general. I would imagine it's the same for humanities and qualitative social sciences PhDs, though I amn't too familiar with the non-academic job market for these.

---

* Though, I reckon mathematics education is all about screening.

[stephen50right]

Exactly, everyone needs to work. That is why I am a socialist. The lazy people who do not work (landlords and businessmen and royalty etc) need to be made to actually contribute instead of living for free from the labour of working class people. The problem with right wingers is they don't want to work at all. They want to sit around wearing suits while other people do the work for them.

Those whom you criticize are being paid by someone for what they offer. Anyone who doesn't like their work can fire them or not buy their products - that's the beauty of capitalism.

Even royalty for what they offer can be dismissed or cherished by the people, depends on the culture.

At least we agree that everyone needs to work...so that tells me you are not hopeless.

[Ter]

@stephen50right
All well and dandy, but the capitalist system also, and automatically, leads to huge inequality among the people.
So no, not everybody needs to work. If your daddy is rich or you marry rich or your family has property that was acquired in previous generations, through crime or otherwise, then no, you do not need to work and you can have others work for you and make you richer.
And if the working people become annoying, bring in a couple hundred thousand or millions from poorer countries. They will work for less and keep quiet.
/end rant

[The Immortal Goon]

This would suggest imminent collapse. When can we expect it?

My car will eventually break down. Perhaps you can tell me when that will be and where.

[Stormsmith]

The problem with the leftist dopes out there, they are often seen at the anti-Trump protest marches...is THEY don't wish to work at all. They want basically everything for free provided for by the nanny state offered by today's Democratic Party.

The problem with you is you presume to know things you don't. Where is your evidence for this insult? Most people I know want to work, want better jobs, want better pay, want more hours.

[stephen50right]

@stephen50right
All well and dandy, but the capitalist system also, and automatically, leads to huge inequality among the people.
So no, not everybody needs to work. If your daddy is rich or you marry rich or your family has property that was acquired in previous generations, through crime or otherwise, then no, you do not need to work and you can have others work for you and make you richer.
And if the working people become annoying, bring in a couple hundred thousand or millions from poorer countries. They will work for less and keep quiet.
/end rant

So what's the alternative? White collar liberal government union dopes picking the societal winners and losers? Them trying their incompetent best to make everything equal which of course would windup degrading things for everybody? Forget about it...I'll take good ol' capitalism every time.

[Perkwunos]

My car will eventually break down. Perhaps you can tell me when that will be and where.

Conceivably, capitalism could continue existing for as long as the human species does. (However long that might be. Possibly the species only has decades to go.) I'm not really defending capitalism here. My point here is that Marxist thought seems to be ridden with lots of failed predictions predicated on wishful thinking.

So what's the alternative? White collar liberal government union dopes picking the societal winners and losers? Them trying their incompetent best to make everything equal which of course would windup degrading things for everybody? Forget about it...I'll take good ol' capitalism every time.

dat false dichotomy tho

This is my own concept of "the alternative":



There are lots of different possible alternatives.

[The Immortal Goon]

My point here is that Marxist thought seems to be ridden with lots of failed predictions predicated on wishful thinking.

That would be interesting had there been a prediction made or any kind of substantial discussion that even resembled Marxist thought, let alone "wishful thinking."

If you're actually interested and behind the paywall, there's this: https://www.jstor.org/stable/4225432?se ... b_contents

And this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism

u.

[stephen50right]

The problem with you is you presume to know things you don't. Where is your evidence for this insult? Most people I know want to work, want better jobs, want better pay, want more hours.

<<< Most people I know want to work, want better jobs, want better pay, want more hours. >>>

But "of course" they do. The problem is there are far too many snowflakes out there who want a job, say that pays over 100K a year, a few hours a day, flexible hours, doing whatever task they wish, and on and on and on...otherwise they won't work at all. They want what they feel they should have, rather than what the marketplace says they deserve.

Sure...these snowflakes are willing to do the "work" of picking the ripe fruit from the bottom of the tree. However they don't wish to put in the time and effort to till the soil, sow the seeds, nurture the crop, and do the other necessary things to ensure that years later the fruit finally grows for a bountiful harvest.

Snowflakes, who are mostly leftist in their beliefs, prefer stealing the fruit from others in the form of government confiscation thru taxes of working people to give to the non-working parasites of society - themselves.

[Decky]

More lies from you. Non working parasites are mostly supported by the right. The left support the working class.

[stephen50right]

More lies from you. Non working parasites are mostly supported by the right. The left support the working class.

In case you didn't notice it, union members strongly supported Trump which is a major reason why he won Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, and Wisconsin. States that the liberal media pundit dopes thought he had no chance of winning.

The lies all come from your side, and you know it...it's called leftist propaganda. They have made lying from an art form into a science. Fortunately, at least in the United States, the majority of the people are now wise to the lies of the Progressive Movement.

[The Immortal Goon]

1. You seem to be implying that Hillary Clinton was a leftist. Hilarious!

2. Less than half of union members went Trump.

3. It is not unknown for working people to vote against their interests.

[Perkwunos]

That would be interesting had there been a prediction made or any kind of substantial discussion that even resembled Marxist thought, let alone "wishful thinking."

If you're actually interested and behind the paywall, there's this: https://www.jstor.org/stable/4225432?se ... b_contents

And this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism

u.

"'Late capitalism' is a term used by neo-Marxists"

Uhhh ... doesn't that support what I'm saying?

Incidentally, I'm not gonna read that but you don't need to be behind a paywall to get it. Library Genesis had it (listed under "Scientific Articles" which really means "Scholarly Articles").

Sure...these snowflakes are willing to do the "work" of picking the ripe fruit from the bottom of the tree. However they don't wish to put in the time and effort to till the soil, sow the seeds, nurture the crop, and do the other necessary things to ensure that years later the fruit finally grows for a bountiful harvest.

Well your "snowflakes" are largely fictitious people in the first place but that's pretty ironic for you to say given that your favored system of capitalism incentivizes (for example) slash-and-burn plantation farming in rainforest areas where the laterite clay fields will rapidly turn into gigantic bricks after being exposed to the sun for long enough.

http://science.jrank.org/pages/6171/Sla ... ation.html

"Lateritic soils are very infertile, and in extreme cases can become rocklike in consistency. Once this stage of degradation is reached, it can be impossible to cultivate the land because it is too hard to plow, and plant roots cannot penetrate into the substrate. The rate of laterization is greatly increased by clearing the tropical forest, and in cases of extreme damage by this process, the productive capability of the land can remain degraded for centuries."

Since when the fuck did you people ever look further into the future than the next quarterly statement exactly?

They have made lying from an art form into a science.

Maybe they took a few pointers from Trump. He's a YUUUUUGE liar.

1. You seem to be implying that Hillary Clinton was a leftist. Hilarious!

The median voter theorem suggests that Clinton and Trump were scarcely different.