The appendix is a vital organ that should not be removed... - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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#14828359
As you point out in your example of the partial coma verses the full coma, there is still much medical science that we have to learn about the human body. Just as with the tonsils. Medical scientists has determined a reason God gave us tonsils, but even with that, genetic damage to out DNA can make things in the body work against us rather than for us in some cases. In my case the swelling of the tonsils was seen as a danger to me and he chose to remove them. That seemed to be a good decision for i had a pretty healthy life from that point on until at 64 years of age a doctor gave me Naproxin for joint pain in my left ankle which brought on minimal change disease of my kidneys, which required treatment with prednisone and a diuretic. After recovering from that I developed type II diabetes and high blood pressure, for which. I am still taking medication at my present age of 73. But at least I am still alive and working for the Lord until my time comes to be taken to Him.

HalleluYah
Praise the Lord
#14828378
I don't think it was mentioned yet:
There is a theory that the appendix can serve as an organ that can repopulate the intestine with the bacterial flora that is lost after an episode of diarrhoea. A reservoir for intestinal micro organisms.
Even though it could be a relic of evolution it could now have this beneficial function.
#14828908
Potemkin wrote:The medical profession used to remove people's tonsils too, on the grounds that tonsils are a 'useless' appendage. In fact, tonsils act as a barrier to disease and infection - getting tonsilitis is preferable to the alternatives. The basic problem here is the arrogance of so-called 'experts'. Because they didn't understand the function of the appendix or the function of the tonsils, they simply assumed that they could not have any function. Of course, it never crossed their minds that they just might not understand what that function is. After all, they are experts, who by definition know everything. The scientist Richard Feynman detested these self-proclaimed 'experts' who claim knowledge which they do not possess. When he was dying of cancer, he was lying in a coma in a hospital bed and his relatives at his bedside were being assured by an 'expert' that people in a coma are not aware of their surroundings. Feynman, still in his coma, then raised his arms and clasped his hands behind his head in a characteristic pose. He was making the point that he was aware of his surroundings and that this 'expert' was a fool. :lol:

There is perhaps no better example for this hubris than the term "junk DNA" for non-protein coding DNA.
Scientific American wrote:
In the 1970s, when biologists first glimpsed the landscape of human genes, they saw that the small pieces of DNA that coded for proteins (known as exons) seemed to float like bits of wood in a sea of genetic gibberish. What on earth were those billions of other letters of DNA there for? No less a molecular luminary than Francis Crick, co-discoverer of DNA’s double-helical structure, suspected it was “little better than junk.”

The phrase “junk DNA” has haunted human genetics ever since. In 2000, when scientists of the Human Genome Project presented the first rough draft of the sequence of bases, or code letters, in human DNA, the initial results appeared to confirm that the vast majority of the sequence—perhaps 97 percent of its 3.2 billion bases—had no apparent function. The “Book of Life,” in other words, looked like a heavily padded text.

As for the OP and people defending the experts, the problem is not removing appendices in a life threatening situation. It's the assertion that the appendix is useless based on the fact that at the time no obvious function had been discovered, the faulty assumption being that our knowledge is complete at any given time. It's one of the most pervasive and insidious fallacies, and so-called experts, including medical experts, fall for it so often it's scary.
#14828911
Hindsite wrote:As you point out in your example of the partial coma verses the full coma, there is still much medical science that we have to learn about the human body. Just as with the tonsils. Medical scientists has determined a reason God gave us tonsils, but even with that, genetic damage to out DNA can make things in the body work against us rather than for us in some cases. In my case the swelling of the tonsils was seen as a danger to me and he chose to remove them. That seemed to be a good decision for i had a pretty healthy life from that point on until at 64 years of age a doctor gave me Naproxin for joint pain in my left ankle which brought on minimal change disease of my kidneys, which required treatment with prednisone and a diuretic. After recovering from that I developed type II diabetes and high blood pressure, for which. I am still taking medication at my present age of 73. But at least I am still alive and working for the Lord until my time comes to be taken to Him.

HalleluYah
Praise the Lord


That's a beautiful story. I trust that you thank god for giving you ill health and diabetes?
#14828915
Ter wrote:I don't think it was mentioned yet:
There is a theory that the appendix can serve as an organ that can repopulate the intestine with the bacterial flora that is lost after an episode of diarrhoea. A reservoir for intestinal micro organisms.
Even though it could be a relic of evolution it could now have this beneficial function.


That IS it's function, that has always been it's function. It's basically a protective pouch for the good bacteria to hide in when the runs start coming.

As we have probiotic drinks and other stuff now like Yogurts in our diets, it's needed slightly less in the modern era. But it's still preferable to leave it intact as it still functions as an organ of the immune system.
#14828916
Bulaba Jones wrote:That's a beautiful story. I trust that you thank god for giving you ill health and diabetes?


For me, Yep....

I thank God for giving me the gift of life and freedom of choice(which is both a blessing and, given there are 7-8 billion other humans with this exact same gift, plus countless humans before us, is also a curse, because some of them are going to choose to do shitty things and take away the freedom and health of others.... Hence ill health and diabetes..... Let's face it, I'm going to chose to do bad shit to myself as well on occasion, like eat Maccas).
#14828951
Bulaba Jones wrote:That's a beautiful story. I trust that you thank god for giving you ill health and diabetes?

The way I see it, having ill health is the result of our lack of knowledge, and that includes the doctors who prescribe drugs that may help treat one problem, but may also bring about other side effects in people's health. Jesus said, "My people perish because of a lack of knowledge."

HalleluYah
Praise the Lord.
#14828991
Jesus said, "My people perish because of a lack of knowledge."

Citation? So far as I know, he said no such thing.

You may be thinking of Proverbs 10:21, which says: "The lips of the righteous feed many: but fools die for want of wisdom."
#14828993
colliric wrote:For me, Yep....

I thank God for giving me the gift of life and freedom of choice(which is both a blessing and, given there are 7-8 billion other humans with this exact same gift, plus countless humans before us, is also a curse, because some of them are going to choose to do shitty things and take away the freedom and health of others.... Hence ill health and diabetes..... Let's face it, I'm going to chose to do bad shit to myself as well on occasion, like eat Maccas).


Do you see it as a gift of life, a punishment, or something else when people contract ebola, and then over the course of several days experience their internal organs liquefy out of their mouths, anus, nose, and eyes before they finally die? Or, using a more mundane example, is catching the common cold or pneumonia a punishment for that person's sins?

Hindsite wrote:The way I see it, having ill health is the result of our lack of knowledge, and that includes the doctors who prescribe drugs that may help treat one problem, but may also bring about other side effects in people's health. Jesus said, "My people perish because of a lack of knowledge."


So you're saying you believe god didn't create pathogens, and that when people are infected, it's nothing to do with god? If I recall correctly, you said the other day that earthquakes and the weather are the result of god's influence: disease is not?

------------------

There's something very interesting, anthropologically speaking, about Western culture which still embraces witch-doctor, rain-dancing, shamanistic beliefs. And I say that very seriously; more research ought to be conducted on that, although this would essentially cover religion in general (more specifically, more research ought to be done towards the continued existence of beliefs, in the West, that rain, lightning, fire, earthquakes, disease, etc, are directly controlled and doled out by a creator deity).
#14829037
Potemkin wrote:Citation? So far as I know, he said no such thing.

You may be thinking of Proverbs 10:21, which says: "The lips of the righteous feed many: but fools die for want of wisdom."

I should have looked that up before I tried to quote it, since my memory was a little off. It was actually Hosea quoting God in Hosea 4:6. But in my mind, Jesus is the person of the Trinity Godhead that appeared to and spoke to the ancient prophets, since the Holy Bible says that no one has seen God at anytime, but we know from Old Testament scripture that God appeared and spoke to Moses and others as the Angel of the Lord and as the Son of Man.

Anyway Jesus did say something with the same meaning when he said, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
(John 8:32)
In this verse, we see that knowledge of truth is the key to being set free from sin and death, which means we are destroyed or perish because of a lack of knowledge of what is true as the other verse reveals.

HalleluYah
Praise the Lord
#14829040
In this verse, we see that knowledge of truth is the key to being set free from sin and death, which means we are destroyed or perish because of a lack of knowledge of truth as the other verse reveals.

I agree with that sentiment, but we probably differ as to which 'truth' is meant. ;)
#14829048
mikema63 wrote:No one believes science is god, god gives moral perscriptives and tells you how to live your life. Science only describes the mechanics of the universe. I have never met or seen any person who treated science like a god.

Really? You do not use Science to tell me I should not be racist, sexist, or believe in God? The entire liberal social platform is based upon science being superior to religious beliefs or cultural customs. They demand the world lives by the supreme message of science. I see no difference between this and most religions. You have placed your beliefs above the beliefs of all others, because you are convinced of your righteousness.
#14829050
mikema63 wrote:No one believes science is god, god gives moral perscriptives and tells you how to live your life. Science only describes the mechanics of the universe. I have never met or seen any person who treated science like a god.

Actually those that believe in the theory of evolution over creation by God claim that what they believe is believing in science. Actually when pressed, they admit their so-called science can not explain how life got here before it started evolving. Yet they elevate their so-called science theory above the level of God or any so-called god. So in this case, it does appear that science has become their god.

Bulaba Jones wrote:If I recall correctly, you said the other day that earthquakes and the weather are the result of god's influence: disease is not?

I believe you misunderstand what I mean. Yes, God did curse the ground, etc. after man sinned and the result is that bad things happen to man, like bad weather and disease, because of that. However, I don't really believe that God goes about changing the weather to punish man or brings a disease on man whenever He gets into the mood.

So let me repeat, I do believe all of this is a result of God's original actions to punish man for disobedience in the beginning. However, the fact that we continue to disobey doesn't help matters, but only makes things worse.
Last edited by Hindsite on 01 Aug 2017 14:06, edited 1 time in total.
#14829054
mikema63 wrote:No one believes science is god, god gives moral perscriptives and tells you how to live your life. Science only describes the mechanics of the universe. I have never met or seen any person who treated science like a god.


No one believes science is God consciously, but Scientists frequently believe they have the right to play God, and reveal their ego and hubris. Pretty much hear this criticism about scientists every day at least two or three times...

"He's a fucken idiot who thinks he's God." - Most Common and Accurate Criticism of Scientists' in the World today. Doctors and Lawyers too.

And yes God created Pathogens. He created everything. He created bacteria, he created evolution, he created the Dinosaurs, he created everything, even The Devil(because he is a believer in Democracy and free choice).

We often contract disease due to not taking adequate precautions against the fact there are other lifeforms out there, or against the weather, or other foreseeable circumstance. Sometimes due to ignorance as well. That is a sin. It is sinful to be ignorant and not prepare adequately for extreme environments.

Hindsite wrote:So in this case, it does appear that science has become their god.


It's more accurate to say they believe themselves that they ARE God. So they mess around with the human genome, invent super destructive weapons, mess around with Genetically modified foods, experiment on animals, mess around with social engineering and plenty of other crap.
Last edited by colliric on 01 Aug 2017 14:20, edited 2 times in total.
#14829058
You do not use Science to tell me I should not be racist, sexist, or believe in God?


No, people may use scientific evidence of how the world works to support some argument on these topics (i.e. someone might bring genetic evidence to a debate on racism) but fundamentally these are moral questions which are outside the realm of scientific inquiry.

The entire liberal social platform is based upon science being superior to religious beliefs or cultural customs.


The moral basis of liberalism and many liberals is a fundamentally based in western philosophy and Christianity.

They demand the world lives by the supreme message of science. I see no difference between this and most religions.


Liberalism universalized it's moral systems because it's based in Christian morality which does the same. Science doesn't prescribe any particular morality because it is fundamentally incapable of doing so.

I see no difference between this and most religions.


You are conflating a political ideology with science in order to try and make this claim.

You have placed your beliefs above the beliefs of all others, because you are convinced of your righteousness.


Then you shift into an accusation of my personality. The purpose of this site is to argue over the merits of our particular beliefs. Certainly I think my beliefs are true, I wouldn't believe them otherwise, but I'm rarely if ever certain about them. However endlessly equivocating and prefacing every post with my own uncertainties about, say, economics is a waste of everyone's time so I don't feel the need to do it.

Actually those that believe in the theory of evolution over creation by God claim that what they believe is believing in science


There are two different definitions of belief here. One the absolute certainty of faith and the other is a more general sort of belief which refers to everything from the sun will rise tomorrow too I believe with some level of certainty that some fact is true.

Actually when pressed, they admit their so-called science can not explain how life got here before it started evolving.


This is a common creationist trope but nobody is hiding or has to be pressed that we have less understanding of how life started than how it developed. Evolution doesn't require any particular origin of life to be true.

Yet they elevate their so-called science theory above the level of God or any so-called god. So in this case, it does appear that science has become their god.


It is merely a description of the universe based on evidence. It elevates nothing. Except perhaps the value of physical evidence over just taking scripture at literal face value.

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