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By jimjam
#14979579
There has been much discussion recently about the medical use of marijuana to alleviate a wide range of health problems. The jury is still out and further research needs to be done. Doing research in America on the situation is made difficult by the fact that the federal government has classified marijuana as an illegal substance on the same level as heroin. This tends to discourage research into the subject as researchers are not interested in getting involved with a "criminal" substance. Classifying marijuana as an equal to heroin and other powerful addicting drugs is an obvious absurdity and, perhaps, a favor to BigPharma who doesn't like competition from a substance that can technically be grown for free.

I have read much interesting material recently on the medical benefits of marijuana and personally know people who claim to have benefited from the use of medical marijuana to alleviate various medical problems. They claim to not only have benefited but to have benefited greatly.

I suffer from seizures and am presently taking a drug offered by BigPharma to control the situation. Full retail price is $1000 @month (fortunately I receive it for free under a special research program). I intend to look into what, if any, help medical marijuana may offer to alleviate my problem.

What do you think? Has anyone had experience with medical marijuana?
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By One Degree
#14979581
It didn’t help my cluster headaches and it did nothing for my wife’s cancer pain. That’s all I know.

I do find it weak research is lacking due to fear of prosecution. As a teacher, I checked it out of the jail evidence room to use in a class I taught. If I was allowed to do that, I doubt researchers would have a problem.
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By XogGyux
#14979585
jimjam wrote:There has been much discussion recently about the medical use of marijuana to alleviate a wide range of health problems. The jury is still out and further research needs to be done. Doing research in America on the situation is made difficult by the fact that the federal government has classified marijuana as an illegal substance on the same level as heroin. This tends to discourage research into the subject as researchers are not interested in getting involved with a "criminal" substance. Classifying marijuana as an equal to heroin and other powerful addicting drugs is an obvious absurdity and, perhaps, a favor to BigPharma who doesn't like competition from a substance that can technically be grown for free.

I have read much interesting material recently on the medical benefits of marijuana and personally know people who claim to have benefited from the use of medical marijuana to alleviate various medical problems. They claim to not only have benefited but to have benefited greatly.

I suffer from seizures and am presently taking a drug offered by BigPharma to control the situation. Full retail price is $1000 @month (fortunately I receive it for free under a special research program). I intend to look into what, if any, help medical marijuana may offer to alleviate my problem.

What do you think? Has anyone had experience with medical marijuana?


Marijuana and marijuana derivatives as medicine is a big scam at the moment. Let me make a big distinction here. I am not saying that marijuana and marijuana derivatives will not be found to be beneficial in the long run but what I am actually saying is that there is little evidence about its health benefits while we know for sure of many of their harmful effects. The studies for marijuana are scant, one here one there. There was some evidence of reduced seizure activity in patients with Dravet syndrome (with increased side effects I may add) but this cannot be extrapolated to ALL patients with seizure let alone other conditions. Maybe we will find a benefit, maybe we won't the point is at this time we know very little and that is why I think it is a scam. "Medical marijuana" is a disguise to try to sell the introduction of this substance that for decades was demonized by politicians as a whole and now they are using this meaningless term to try to make it more friendly to the electorate.

Don't get me wrong, I support the legalization of marijuana and I'd go a step further to say that perhaps all drugs should be legal. A very strong case can be made that de-stigmatization of this problem can lead to people receive better care and more support and that taxation and regulation could lead to more resources to fight the problem and more safety overall. This is, however, a different topic.
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By jimjam
#14979591
XogGyux wrote:we know for sure of many of their harmful effects.

what are they?

XogGyux wrote:There was some evidence of reduced seizure activity in patients with Dravet syndrome

I have looked into this. It does not relate to my seizure problem at all. Additionally, BigPharma wants $32,500 @year for their stuff :eek:
XogGyux wrote:Marijuana and marijuana derivatives as medicine is a big scam at the moment


This is true and to be expected. It will be awhile before the wheat is separated from the chaff. But I am certain there is, in fact, wheat. I plan on consulting with an M.D. in Maine who specializes in usage of medical marijuana. I am 74 and do not have time to wait for the federal government (who, it seems recently, cannot even take out the garbage) and BigPahrma to divide up the profits.
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By Rancid
#14979594
One Degree wrote: As a teacher, I checked it out of the jail evidence room to use in a class I taught.


When was this? I'm sure no teacher could do this today. First off, why are they allowing a non-law enforcement person even check out evidence from an evidence room? This just sounds like all kinds of wrong. What kind of clown police department is in your town?

Anyway, I'm 100% on the research. I've never taken it for pain or anything, but I know people that say it's helped a lot. I also know a lot of people that use CDB oil which is legal. They claim it works wonders.
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By XogGyux
#14979598
jimjam wrote:what are they?


I have looked into this. It does not relate to my seizure problem at all. Additionally, BigPharma wants $32,500 @year for their stuff :eek:


This is true and to be expected. It will be awhile before the wheat is separated from the chaff. But I am certain there is, in fact, wheat. I plan on consulting with an M.D. in Maine who specializes in usage of medical marijuana. I am 74 and do not have time to wait for the federal government (who, it seems recently, cannot even take out the garbage) and BigPahrma to divide up the profits.

Medicinal use — Medicinal marijuana is supplied as dried flowers of the Cannabis sativa plant that are smoked as described for recreational cannabis use (see 'Recreational use' above). Derivatives of cannabinoids are also available as pharmaceuticals in some countries including oral preparations (dronabinol and nabilone) and a spray for buccal use (nabiximols).

Marijuana and its components have been proposed for various medicinal purposes, such as chronic severe pain (eg, due to cancer), refractory nausea and vomiting, anorexia and cachexia, glaucoma, and seizures [14]. However, none have been proven to have greater efficacy than other currently available medications.

Of these indications, medical marijuana is most frequently prescribed for severe or chronic pain. An oromucosal spray containing THC and cannabidiol (Sativex), also called nabiximols, has been shown to have some efficacy as a multipurpose analgesic in combination with traditional therapy and is approved for use in Canada and elsewhere but not in the United States. No controlled studies demonstrate the efficacy of inhaled marijuana as an adjunct to traditional pain medications for patients with cancer-related pain (see "Cancer pain management: Adjuvant analgesics (coanalgesics)", section on 'Cannabis and cannabinoids'). Trials in patients with multiple sclerosis have failed to show consistent pain reduction. (See "Symptom management of multiple sclerosis in adults", section on 'Cannabinoids'.)

Although inhaled, buccal, or ingested marijuana has shown some efficacy for refractory nausea and vomiting or glaucoma [32,33], consensus expert guidelines do not support its use. (See "Cancer pain management: Adjuvant analgesics (coanalgesics)", section on 'Cannabis and cannabinoids' and "Palliative care: Assessment and management of nausea and vomiting", section on 'Cannabinoids and cannabis'.)

Cannabinoids demonstrate anticonvulsant properties in animal models, but no randomized controlled human trials have proven efficacy. (See "Overview of the management of epilepsy in adults", section on 'Alternative therapies' and "Evaluation and management of drug-resistant epilepsy", section on 'Cannabinoids' and "Seizures and epilepsy in children: Refractory seizures and prognosis", section on 'Cannabinoids'.)

Toxic effects — Recreational cannabis intake to achieve psychoactive effects can often result in adverse effects because there is no clear demarcation between doses that achieve symptoms desired by a marijuana user and noxious effects.

In adolescents and adults, inhaled doses of 2 to 3 mg of delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and ingested doses of 5 to 20 mg THC impair attention, concentration, short-term memory and executive functioning [13,15-24,34-39]. More severe adverse effects may occur at doses >7.5 mg/m2 THC, including nausea, postural hypotension, delirium, panic attacks, anxiety, and myoclonic jerking [34,35]. Psychosis has also been associated with use of higher potency/concentrated marijuana products [40,41].

Toxicity in children is most often reported after ingestion of a highly concentrated food product [7,8,42-47] or hashish resin [48]. Estimated oral doses from 5 to 300 mg in pediatrics have caused a range of symptoms such as mild sleepiness, ataxia, behavior changes, excessive and purposeless motor activity of the extremities (hyperkinesis), coma, and respiratory depression with more severe intoxication correlated with higher estimated doses. For example, in a small cohort of 38 children presenting to an emergency department for acute marijuana intoxication after ingestion, degree of symptoms corresponded to an estimated dose as follows: 3.2 mg/kg of THC led to observation and minimal medical intervention, 7.2 mg/kg of THC led to admission to an inpatient floor and moderate medical intervention, and 13 mg/kg of THC led to admission to an intensive care unit and major medical interventions [49]. Patients without prior THC exposure more commonly had lethargy or somnolence and had a longer duration of clinical symptoms. Similarly, as concentrated hashish resin has become more available in France, a corresponding increase in the number and severity of annual admissions has occurred among infants and young children [48].
User avatar
By One Degree
#14979601
Rancid wrote:When was this? I'm sure no teacher could do this today. First off, why are they allowing a non-law enforcement person even check out evidence from an evidence room? This just sounds like all kinds of wrong. What kind of clown police department is in your town?

Anyway, I'm 100% on the research. I've never taken it for pain or anything, but I know people that say it's helped a lot. I also know a lot of people that use CDB oil which is legal. They claim it works wonders.


1970’s. I have no idea if others were allowed to do so. I was well known, so that could have made a difference. I never checked into the legalities. I just asked the Sheriff if I could.

People say placebos help a lot, but it doesn’t prove the help is due to the substance.
User avatar
By Beren
#14979603
One Degree wrote:It didn’t help my cluster headaches and it did nothing for my wife’s cancer pain. That’s all I know.

And how is marijuana supposed to be a pain killer? You can get serious headaches if you use bad stuff and it should have helped your wife by increasing her appetite.
User avatar
By One Degree
#14979614
Beren wrote:And how is marijuana supposed to be a pain killer? You can get serious headaches if you use bad stuff and it should have helped your wife by increasing her appetite.


If memory serves, relief from cancer pain was the initial claim to legalize it.
No, it did not help her appetite, but a loss of appetite is more than just not being hungry.
As far as the headaches and ‘bad stuff’, you obviously know nothing about cluster headaches.
User avatar
By Beren
#14979618
One Degree wrote:If memory serves, relief from cancer pain was the initial claim to legalize it.
No, it did not help her appetite, but a loss of appetite is more than just not being hungry.
As far as the headaches and ‘bad stuff’, you obviously know nothing about cluster headaches.

I regularly have headaches and marijuana didn't help it. Marijuana can help you with your mood, appetite, nausea, sleeping, or sex life, but it's not a painkiller, and using bad stuff can even cause serious headache. As far as I know the claim is it can increase appetite when someone is treated with chemotherapy.
User avatar
By One Degree
#14979624
Beren wrote:I regularly have headaches and marijuana didn't help it. Marijuana can help you with your mood, appetite, nausea, sleeping, or sex life, but it's not a painkiller, and using bad stuff can even cause serious headache. As far as I know the claim is it can increase appetite when someone is treated with chemotherapy.


With my wife, it seemed loss of appetite was related more to revulsion than not being hungry. An egg was about all she could tolerate. She wanted to eat, she just couldn’t force herself to. So in her case, increasing her appetite may have been more of a punishment in her mind. She may have been hungrier but still unable to eat.
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By jimjam
#14979790
XogGyux wrote:In adolescents and adults, inhaled doses of 2 to 3 mg of delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and ingested doses of 5 to 20 mg THC impair attention, concentration, short-term memory and executive functioning [13,15-24,34-39]. More severe adverse effects may occur at doses >7.5 mg/m2 THC, including nausea, postural hypotension, delirium, panic attacks, anxiety, and myoclonic jerking [34,35]. Psychosis has also been associated with use of higher potency/concentrated marijuana products [40,41].Toxicity in children is most often reported after ingestion of a highly concentrated food product [7,8,42-47] or hashish resin [48]. Estimated oral doses from 5 to 300 mg in pediatrics have caused a range of symptoms such as mild sleepiness, ataxia, behavior changes, excessive and purposeless motor activity of the extremities (hyperkinesis), coma, and respiratory depression with more severe intoxication correlated with higher estimated doses. For example, in a small cohort of 38 children presenting to an emergency department for acute marijuana intoxication after ingestion, degree of symptoms corresponded to an estimated dose as follows: 3.2 mg/kg of THC led to observation and minimal medical intervention, 7.2 mg/kg of THC led to admission to an inpatient floor and moderate medical intervention, and 13 mg/kg of THC led to admission to an intensive care unit and major medical interventions [49]. Patients without prior THC exposure more commonly had lethargy or somnolence and had a longer duration of clinical symptoms. Similarly, as concentrated hashish resin has become more available in France, a corresponding increase in the number and severity of annual admissions has occurred among infants and young children [48].


Coma? Delirium? Little kids being admitted to emergency rooms? I have never heard of anything even approaching this shit. I have seen some people experience anxiety but coma seems ridiculous. I have to wonder if some of these people were fucked up to begin with. I am curious who put this out and would like to check the source for ulterior motives and read it myself. Made up hysteria toward marijuana is rather common.

Image
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By Godstud
#14979805
Medical marijuana is a real thing. It's not a placebo and yes, a lot of the lack of studies has had to do with the legality of it.

I know a friend who uses it for his Parkinson's and it helps him, greatly, to deal with it.

It's not a magical cure-all, though, and pretending it is, is often what the greatest critics of it, forget.


Medical Marijuana
With medical marijuana now legalized in 33 states and Washington, D.C., it is obvious that there is strong interest in its therapeutic properties. Researchers are testing marijuana, which is also called cannabis, as a treatment for many illnesses and diseases, including neurological conditions, with Parkinson's disease (PD) high on the list. But despite several clinical studies, it has not been demonstrated that cannabis can directly benefit people with PD.

What is the science and pharmacology behind marijuana, and can it be used to treat Parkinson's symptoms?

The endocannabinoid system is located in the brain and made up of cannabinoid receptors (a receptor is molecular switch on the outside of a cell that makes something happen inside a cell when activated) that are linked to neurons (brain cells) that regulate thinking and some body functions.

Researchers began to show enthusiasm to study cannabis in relation to PD after people with PD gave anecdotal reports and posted on social media as to how cannabis allegedly reduced their tremors. Some researchers think that cannabis might be neuroprotective — saving neurons from damage caused by PD.

Cannabinoids (the drug molecules in marijuana) have also been studied for use in treating other symptoms, like bradykinesia (slowness caused by PD) and dyskinesia (excess movement caused by levodopa). Despite some promising preclinical findings, researchers have not found any meaningful or conclusive benefits of cannabis for people with PD.

Researchers issue caution for people with PD who use cannabis because of its effect on thinking. PD can impair the executive function — the ability to make plans and limit risky behavior. People with a medical condition that impairs executive function should be cautious about using any medication that can compound this effect.

https://parkinson.org/Understanding-Par ... -Marijuana
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By XogGyux
#14979817
jimjam wrote:Coma? Delirium? Little kids being admitted to emergency rooms? I have never heard of anything even approaching this shit. I have seen some people experience anxiety but coma seems ridiculous. I have to wonder if some of these people were fucked up to begin with. I am curious who put this out and would like to check the source for ulterior motives and read it myself. Made up hysteria toward marijuana is rather common.

Image


My quote came from an Uptodate.com article. Sorry, i forgot to mention that I was kind of lazy to paraphrase and/or mention them. Uptodate is a compliation of comprehensive articles about basically any medical topic where a few MD editors (usually specializing in the topic they are writing) come together and analyze all the evidence available on certain topics. In this case regarding marijuana.
https://www.uptodate.com/contents/canna ... H178487368
Thats the link to the article that my quote comes from. I am not sure if you would have access to it as the subscrition can be in the excess of $500 (fear not, my access comes from my work so I am not paying that much :lol: )
The first thing I notice is that there is a notable lack of articles on this topic and most of the articles come from the perspective of a substance of abuse but this does not come as a surprise. All of this, might ultimately not apply to an eventual "medical marijuana" derivative drug as drugs can gain or lose side effects based on their final molecular structurethe , addition of other substances/drugs, means of administration (inhaled vs IV vs oral?) and dosage. HOWEVER, the important point to make, which is really what I wanted to point out rather than to scare anyway away from it, is that this "medical marijuana" at this point in time is utter non-sense.
The medical community have not had significant experimentation and exposure to this in order to make appropriate assessments on its usefulness and trials to confirm/debunk otherwise. The evidence is scant and low quality (e.g. annecdotal etc) it will probably take years if not decades before the medical community can have a final word on this topic.
I have not been practicing for a long time yet. But so far I have not met a single doctor that is comfortable prescribing these on a regular basis (we have prescribed dronabidol in the hospital as a hope to increase appetite with very limited benefit). Even the pain management specialist in my hospital is staying away from it as he has a very cush practice where he makes a ton of $$ and he does not want to mess with his system (e.g. attract certain kind of patients, attention from authorities, etc). So all I can tell is that at this time it is way to early to talk about evidence for this, evidence for that and call marijuana a drug for anything.
I support it as a recreational drug, and considering the side effects and toxic effects compared to all other drugs (including cigarretes and alcohol both of which are legal) it comes up favorable and I would not be oposed to a patient of mine giving it a try for a presumed benefit. That being said, I would not be the one prescribing it (for legal reasons) and I would not be recommending it until such time as the evidence becomes more readily available.
I stand by my perception that this "medical marijuana" thing is a scam by lawmakers to repeal the ban of something that should not have been banned to begin with and to make it seem less freigthening after they demonized society for using it for recreational reasons.
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By Godstud
#14979819
XogGyux wrote: HOWEVER, the important point to make, which is really what I wanted to point out rather than to scare anyway away from it, is that this "medical marijuana" at this point in time is utter non-sense.
Pure opinion without basis on facts. I expect better from you, good sir.

Medical Marijuana FAQ
https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/med ... ijuana-faq

Medical Marijuana (Medical Cannabis)
https://www.medicinenet.com/medical_mar ... rticle.htm

Marijuana as Medicine
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/ ... a-medicine
User avatar
By XogGyux
#14979825
Godstud wrote:Pure opinion without basis on facts. I expect better from you, good sir.

Medical Marijuana FAQ
https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/med ... ijuana-faq

Medical Marijuana (Medical Cannabis)
https://www.medicinenet.com/medical_mar ... rticle.htm

Marijuana as Medicine
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/ ... a-medicine


It is an opinion but based on evidence or more specifically lack of it.
You see, the FDA just recently (June 2018) approved the first marijuana derivative drug and it was for the treatment of very rare seizure disorders in kids (A synthetic compound has been approved in the past as well). Beware of generalized extrapolations also, not all seizure disorders are equal or respond to the same drugs. Alcohol, for instance, lowers seizure threshold for most people with seizure disorders but it might be preventative on those that experience seizure from it's withdrawal. Certain medications are preferred on children, on people with partial vs generalized or simple vs complex. As it stands today, this seizure medication usage is only limited for those 2 conditions and any other use would be off-label and have serious consequences (anywhere from not being approved by insurance, to the company that makes the drug simply refusing it to sell it to you because you are using it off-label - this is of course to protect themselves from sues, publicity problems that could prevent them from introducing the drug in the future for other conditions, etc).
Another important point is derivatives vs actual marijuana. A derivative might either be in too low concentration, too high concentration or be in an inert form that needs further processing before its benefits can be seen. This leads to confusion and misunderstanding. The stuff people buy at a dispensary is in no way meant to treat any particular disease and evidence is indeed scant.
Check the FDA page:
https://www.fda.gov/newsevents/publiche ... 421168.htm

To date, the FDA has not approved a marketing application for marijuana for any indication. The FDA generally evaluates research conducted by manufacturers and other scientific investigators. Our role, as laid out in the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic (FD&C) Act, is to review data submitted to the FDA in an application for approval to assure that the drug product meets the statutory standards for approval.

The FDA has approved Epidiolex, which contains a purified drug substance cannabidiol, one of more than 80 active chemicals in marijuana, for the treatment of seizures associated with Lennox-Gastaut syndrome or Dravet syndrome in patients 2 years of age and older. That means the FDA has concluded that this particular drug product is safe and effective for its intended indication.

The agency also has approved Marinol and Syndros for therapeutic uses in the United States, including for the treatment of anorexia associated with weight loss in AIDS patients. Marinol and Syndros include the active ingredient dronabinol, a synthetic delta-9- tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) which is considered the psychoactive component of marijuana. Another FDA-approved drug, Cesamet, contains the active ingredient nabilone, which has a chemical structure similar to THC and is synthetically derived.


All I said was that at this moment in time. The evidence is limited, there is a lot of confusion by both the government (and its agencies), medical professionals and public/patients alike. This is akin to the "organic food" stuff that is not well defined or regulated. This can lead to many unscrupulous claims, less-than-trustworthy people (e.g. essential healing oils, dietary supplements, etc).
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By LaDexter
#14979937
"The jury is still out "


Um, no it isn't.

65% of Americans want marijuana legal. In a "democracy," something is SERIOUSLY WRONG when 65% support something and the completely treasonous and sold out political "leadership" won't enact it....
User avatar
By XogGyux
#14979944
LaDexter wrote:"The jury is still out "


Um, no it isn't.

65% of Americans want marijuana legal. In a "democracy," something is SERIOUSLY WRONG when 65% support something and the completely treasonous and sold out political "leadership" won't enact it....

I think you are crossing the cables mate. :lol: One thing is whether it should be legal and a totally different thing is whether it has significant advantageous medical applications. The former you can fix with democracy but the latter you cannot.

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