[Sivad]

Well, if we exclude the at risk population from the case count, which Oxford seem to be arguing for, the statistics will look a lot better. No surprise there.

Where are you getting that from?

Still, an IFR of 0.1% means around 200,000 deaths in America

How do you figure?

Also, as a mod comment, I've moved your post on IFR and responses to this thread which you specifically made to discuss mortality.

whatever.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

Where are you getting that from?

From the linked site:

It is now essential to understand whether individuals are dying with or from the disease. Understanding this issue is critical. If, for instance, 80% of those over 80 die with the disease then the CFR would be near 3% in this age group as opposed to 15%.

How do you figure?

320,000,000 * 0.6 * 0.001 = 192,000

whatever.

Please make a Basement post if you disagree. Don't post complaints in multiple threads.

[Godstud]

Yes, and about 30,000 die from the flu virus, every year, and that only has a 0.05% to 0.1% fatality rate(It's often inflated to seem like COVID isn't as bad as it actually is).

For comparison, in the U.S. alone, the flu (also called influenza) has caused an estimated 38 million illnesses, 390,000 hospitalizations and 23,000 deaths this season, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
https://www.livescience.com/new-coronav ... h-flu.html

That's about 700,000 if you go by the reported cases and the death rate of close to 2%(as it currently stands on reported cases). It's more dangerous than the flu by an order of magnitude.

[Ter]

Nine residents die, 34 staff suffer symptoms as coronavirus devastates Bobcaygeon, Ont. nursing home

Those are old people. @Sivad does not care about old people dying.
How many hours would they have lived more if they would have been allowed to die without COVID-19 ?

In most cultures, old people are respected and protected.
I wonder what went wrong in Sivad's upbringing.
Apparently, a lot.

[BeesKnee5]

Is the Imperial model peer reviewed? Is the code available to the research community?

Did I say it was?

[BeesKnee5]

I love when these types can't think of anything to say. They just start ejaculating obtuse denials.

In the past 12 hours we have both posted evidence of significant asymptomatic transmission and yet you think you've invented a magic forcefield to protect pensioners until the majority of the public are infected.

Please, just give your head a wobble.

[QatzelOk]

I think what Sivad and a lot of other "denial" posters are saying is... that it doesn't matter if Western nations cut healthcare to the bone after the 2008 bankster crisis. That we cut our social services in order to keep our rich, corrupt banksters super-rich is normal and healthy.

He, and others, are suggesting that the sacrifice of seniors is "worth it" in much the same way that 500,000 dead Iraqi children were "worth it" to M. Albright - one of Sivad's heros.

What about your own death? Would that also be "worth it" to keep corrupt banksters filthy rich for five more minutes?

[annatar1914]

I think what Sivad and a lot of other "denial" posters are saying is... that it doesn't matter if Western nations cut healthcare to the bone after the 2008 bankster crisis. That we cut our social services in order to keep our rich, corrupt banksters super-rich is normal and healthy.

He, and others, are suggesting that the sacrifice of seniors is "worth it" in much the same way that 500,000 dead Iraqi children were "worth it" to M. Albright - one of Sivad's heros.

What about your own death? Would that also be "worth it" to keep corrupt banksters filthy rich for five more minutes?

So you've entirely rejected the possibility that @Sivad and others who are skeptical of some elements of the official stance on this pandemic are disinterestedly seeking the actual truth about the situation, and only have a political axe to grind in the midst of all this?

Could that be projection on your part? I understand disgust at the Wealthy in this time, I about threw up at a photo David Geffen made of his big boat he's on, far away from any pestilence. But that doesn't mean doubters of the narrative are shilling for people like him.

[QatzelOk]

So you've entirely rejected the possibility that @Sivad and others who are skeptical of some elements of the official stance on this pandemic are disinterestedly seeking the actual truth about the situation, and only have a political axe to grind in the midst of all this?

Yes, but he's not at all worried about climate change. This means he only trusts science when there's an economic advantage for him personally.

This means his 'dedication' to science is very unscientific and subjective. Useless, in other words.

Our entire society is like this, and this is a fatal type of mercenary ignorance.

[Donna]

So you've entirely rejected the possibility that @Sivad and others who are skeptical of some elements of the official stance on this pandemic are disinterestedly seeking the actual truth about the situation, and only have a political axe to grind in the midst of all this?

Could that be projection on your part? I understand disgust at the Wealthy in this time, I about threw up at a photo David Geffen made of his big boat he's on, far away from any pestilence. But that doesn't mean doubters of the narrative are shilling for people like him.

There's a difference between being skeptical and being a denialist.

[annatar1914]

@Donna and @QatzelOk , I'm not here to defend or attack anybody, I myself am not going to delve too much in a debate on the severity of this pandemic, but exercise prudently the safety measures suggested by my local and national authorities. I'm staying at home, unless there's a good reason to go to a store, and try my best to practice social distancing. And I'll do this until it is time for me to get back to work. I'd love to believe that it's not as bad as everyone is making it out to be, but better to be over-cautious than under-cautious, and I can start making money again soon enough-I hope.

Fear is driving a lot of people in this online conversation worldwide, not rationality necessarily.

[Donna]

@Donna and @QatzelOk , I'm not here to defend or attack anybody, I myself am not going to delve too much in a debate on the severity of this pandemic, but exercise prudently the safety measures suggested by my local and national authorities. I'm staying at home, unless there's a good reason to go to a store, and try my best to practice social distancing. And I'll do this until it is time for me to get back to work. I'd love to believe that it's not as bad as everyone is making it out to be, but better to be over-cautious than under-cautious, and I can start making money again soon enough-I hope.

Fear is driving a lot of people in this online conversation worldwide, not rationality necessarily.

Part of that is fear of a world outside of neoliberal capitalism.

[annatar1914]

Part of that is fear of a world outside of neoliberal capitalism.

I'm not denying that, change is painful and fearful in and of itself even when its a good pain. But as i've tried to say before in talking to you, in the interests of facing a common enemy, we're better served by setting aside the politics in this case as in a few others.

[QatzelOk]

I'm not denying that, change is painful and fearful in and of itself even when its a good pain. But as i've tried to say before in talking to you, in the interests of facing a common enemy, we're better served by setting aside the politics in this case as in a few others.

It's very difficult to "face a common enemy" (of humanity) when our leaders get so rich by pointing us at scapegoat nations and dumbing us down with media.

Aren't our leaders themselves, and the structure they maintain, a huge part of our "common enemy?" Isn't incompetent and potentially fatal leadership the reason why the military often overthrows governments all over the world?

[Donna]

I'm not denying that, change is painful and fearful in and of itself even when its a good pain. But as i've tried to say before in talking to you, in the interests of facing a common enemy, we're better served by setting aside the politics in this case as in a few others.

But why are you making this point here, in this thread?

[annatar1914]

@Donna , @QatzelOk ,

In answer to you both, because we are facing not a human enemy but a pandemic, a deadly pestilence. If you can't set aside your hatreds and support those who have the power to make a difference in this fight-even if you hate them and/or disagree with their methodology in this fight, then I don't really know what to say to such people as yourselves.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Donna , @QatzelOk ,

In answer to you both, because we are facing not a human enemy but a pandemic, a deadly pestilence. If you can't set aside your hatreds and support those who have the power to make a difference in this fight-even if you hate them and/or disagree with their methodology in this fight, then I don't really know what to say to such people as yourselves.

If the powers that be are actually making the epidemic worse, why should we support them?

[Donna]

@Donna , @QatzelOk ,

In answer to you both, because we are facing not a human enemy but a pandemic, a deadly pestilence. If you can't set aside your hatreds and support those who have the power to make a difference in this fight-even if you hate them and/or disagree with their methodology in this fight, then I don't really know what to say to such people as yourselves.

Can you be more specific? Are you referring to Donald Trump?

[annatar1914]

If the powers that be are actually making the epidemic worse, why should we support them?

Because you don't possess the means and the tools necessary to determine from your temporal vantage point whether they are making the epidemic worse or not. It's possible, even probable, that some officials are making things better, some worse, some having little direct effect, but it's likely that none of this will be known until after this threat subsides.

Opinions are like assholes; everybody's got one. But it's better to have one than to be one. Having been in the Health Care field for many years in the past, I have a limit to the armchair quarterbacking I can tolerate or engage in myself.

[annatar1914]

Can you be more specific? Are you referring to Donald Trump?

Is he the President of the United States?

Every leader, every official, every doctor and scientist and every nurse and health care worker in this fight should be supported. Resume any argument with them after this is done.