[Finfinder]

AFAIK, Sweden has still banned events with more than 50 people and has social distancing measures in place. We'll have to look at how much better the Swedish economy does compared to its neighbors. In the 1st quarter it grew by 0.1% while Norway's contracted by 1.6% for example. Those figures are usually subject to revisions and we haven't seen the 2nd quarter yet.

Also, in Sweden the virus kills less young people than in the US, which is probably due to less prevalent preexisting conditions.

In the USA the liberals ban church gatherings, going to the beach, and funerals BUT they promote and encourage maskless riots.

[Godstud]

Don't be a dumbass @Finfinder, no one is promoting or encouraging riots.

Most PROTESTERS are wearing masks, incidentally. medical professionals have already stated that being in a well ventilated area helps reduce the spread of Covid-19, as well, and you can't get much more ventilated than outdoors.

[Finfinder]

:roll: Don't be a dumbass @Finfinder, no one is promoting or encouraging riots.

Most PROTESTERS are wearing masks, incidentally. medical professionals have already stated that being in a well ventilated area helps reduce the spread of Covid-19, as well, and you can't get much more ventilated than outdoors.

I really don't care what Canadians sitting in Asia think about what they consume on liberal Internet sites when it is concerning the US.

[Atlantis]

What Trump says is mostly noise. I do consider Trump a genius, but not in the fields of politics, history or philosophy. No Trump is a genius in the tradition of Andy Kaufman and Sacha Baron Cohen. What Trump says or does has very little effect on the overall outcome in the United States and his effect on the progression of this epidemic world wide is even more marginal.

I appreciate you enjoy the role of devil's advocate and defender of lost causes, but even a devil's advocate needs to present an argument that sounds plausible even if it is totally off the mark.

You don't respect that rule. You deliberately make outrages statements that are obviously false. Trump has had the most devastating impact on the US and it's role in the world, to the point that senior politicians like Bolton claims that the US won't survive a 2nd term.

However that may, it is blindingly obvious that nobody, absolutely nobody, in the US would have had to die if the president had done his job in leading the country through pandemic. As it is, Trump will be directly responsible for the death of 200,000 or more American's by the time he's removed from office. That's almost as many as American soldiers died during WWII. That is a failure of government totally unprecedented in the history of humanity. Nero would be proud of Donald.

[Drlee]

In the USA the liberals ban church gatherings, going to the beach, and funerals BUT they promote and encourage maskless riots.

Well let's see how many falsehoods we can find in this one sentence.

1. The "riots" were not caused by "liberals".

2. Democrats, who belong to a center right party by just about any objective standard, are not "promoting or encouraging" riots.

3. Democrats, who belong to a center right party by just about any objective standard, are not trying to ban church gatherings or going to the beach other than when such an action will kill people. I choose not to post the many articles about parishioners who have died after attending church. (I will grant though that Republican who are not banning these things are negligently murdering people.)

So that is not up to Trump standards. You used way to many words to only get out three lies.

[Rich]

2. Democrats, who belong to a center right party by just about any objective standard,

There's only one objective standard I can think of:

The terms "left" and "right" appeared during the French Revolution of 1789 when members of the National Assembly divided into supporters of the king to the president's right and supporters of the revolution to his left.[6] One deputy, the Baron de Gauville, explained: "We began to recognize each other: those who were loyal to religion and the king took up positions to the right of the chair so as to avoid the shouts, oaths, and indecencies that enjoyed free rein in the opposing camp"

By the objective standard both the Republicans and Democrats are radical left wing parties. Even Robespierre didn't support trans rights.

[Hindsite]

:roll: Don't be a dumbass @Finfinder, no one is promoting or encouraging riots.

Most PROTESTERS are wearing masks, incidentally. medical professionals have already stated that being in a well ventilated area helps reduce the spread of Covid-19, as well, and you can't get much more ventilated than outdoors.

You mean, like at the beach that some Democrat mayors have shut down?

[skinster]

[Atlantis]

https://twitter.com/SpiritofHo/status/1284204837853433856?s=20

US plutocracy and Trumpland do not represent the West. There are numerous democracies from New Zealand to Europe that have successfully managed the pandemic without turning into a fascist totalitarian state. I'm actually rather heartened by the public debate informed by science that is directing the corona response in Germany and a number of other countries.

Despite all the ruthless efficiency of one-party states like China and Vietnam, let's not fool ourselves. There is tremendous corruption, inefficiency and discontent brewing below the surface, which is ready to blow up any time.

Following initial problems, most democracies in Europe have been rather successful at containing the pandemic. The transparency and public debate have led to mechanisms for dealing with the pandemic and a public acceptance of even stringent measures that's lacking in totalitarian regimes.

[Rich]

There are numerous democracies from New Zealand to Europe that have successfully managed the pandemic without turning into a fascist totalitarian state.

Indeed there are. West Virginia to name one. Montana and Wyoming to name two more.

No law abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, shall be passed;

If Germany and other European States could overcome their reflexive fascistic tendencies there's a lot they could learn from West Virginia about freedom and liberty.

[Godstud]

You mean, like at the beach that some Democrat mayors have shut down?

People don't wear masks at the beach. If so, then prove me wrong.

[Patrickov]

(Quote from Hong Kong Standard)

Chuang Shuk-kwan of the Centre of Health Protection said there's no sign that the pandemic is easing and urged the public to stay vigilant.

“Judging from the number of cases recorded these few days, the trend is still going up. I appeal to members of the public to please stay at home as far as possible and avoid gathering activities”, she said.

Chuang added she noted many recent cases had engaged in many social activities, which made it difficult for officials to curb the virus spread by solely tracing their close contacts.

“If citizens are not making any changes on their behaviors, then the quarantine centers will never be enough to accommodate [those under isolation], no matter how many they are.”

IMHO this is one of the best rebuttals to those blaming their respective governments of not doing enough in measures like testing.

At the end of the day, it is how some ordinary citizens behave that decides whether this contagious disease is spread.

Despite all the ruthless efficiency of one-party states like China and Vietnam, let's not fool ourselves. There is tremendous corruption, inefficiency and discontent brewing below the surface, which is ready to blow up any time.

Following initial problems, most democracies in Europe have been rather successful at containing the pandemic. The transparency and public debate have led to mechanisms for dealing with the pandemic and a public acceptance of even stringent measures that's lacking in totalitarian regimes.

Let's not dip into propaganda too much, especially both the utterer and the "messenger" do what they do on purpose.

Laos probably lie like North Korea, categorizing all their infected as contacting ordinary pneumonia.

Vietnam's words cannot be trusted 100% because even if they lie they would be protected by the West, since they are now an important anti-China piece in the South China Sea conflict, and the West pretty much rely on them to take over the cheap labour market.

As for China, they have a new wave from Xinjiang:
https://hongkongfp.com/2020/07/17/fresh ... ng-region/

[Drlee]

Indeed there are. West Virginia to name one.

quite true. West Virginia's governor acted far faster and far more severely than almost anywhere else. Lest you forget:

Before there was ever a case of Covid in WV the governor had already issued orders about school closures. He had declared a state of emergency. He had banned all visits to nursing homes. Stopped basketball tournaments. Banned state employee travel. Opened 500 sites to feed children.

Within 48 HOURS of the first single case in WV the governor had:

Shut all restaurants and bars and suspended off premises liquor sales.

Closed all gyms and recreational facilities.

Closed all DMV offices.

Ordered all but essential state employees to work from home.

Halts all tours and visits to the state government complexes.

Purchased 100,000 N-95 masks and 275 full protective suits.

Gave counties flexibility to stop court actions.

Within 72 hours of the first case he:

Closed all state park lodges.

Issued state guidelines for all citizens including wearing masks.

Within a week he had closed the rest of the parks and recreation facilities.

Closed all of the states schools.

Suspended state tax payment requirements.

Closed all state campgrounds to out of state arrivals.

Delayed the primary election.

Issued a stay at home order for the state's most populous counties (and extended it later)

Announced increased testing statewide.

Gave local health departments enhanced authority to impose additional restrictions.

In less than a month was providing one million meals for children a day.

AND THEN THERE IS THIS RICH:

7/6/20 Gov. Justice issues executive order establishing statewide indoor face covering requirement​ for all public places where social distancing cannot be properly maintained.

Mandatory masks Rich. Do you support that?

I do.

But this is just the proof of our point. Even red states can beat this virus when and if they impose the same requirements as the blue ones.

[Hindsite]

:lol: People don't wear masks at the beach. If so, then prove me wrong.

It is insane to wear masks on a beach. That would defeat the purpose of suntanning at the beach. People don't want tan lines around their faces. Surely you can't be that stupid. Just use common sense for a change. I think you are just trying to be a political ass.

[Hindsite]

quite true. West Virginia's governor acted far faster and far more severely than almost anywhere else. Lest you forget:

Before there was ever a case of Covid in WV the governor had already issued orders about school closures. He had declared a state of emergency. He had banned all visits to nursing homes. Stopped basketball tournaments. Banned state employee travel. Opened 500 sites to feed children.

Within 48 HOURS of the first single case in WV the governor had:

Shut all restaurants and bars and suspended off premises liquor sales.

Closed all gyms and recreational facilities.

Closed all DMV offices.

Ordered all but essential state employees to work from home.

Halts all tours and visits to the state government complexes.

Purchased 100,000 N-95 masks and 275 full protective suits.

Gave counties flexibility to stop court actions.

Within 72 hours of the first case he:

Closed all state park lodges.

Issued state guidelines for all citizens including wearing masks.

Within a week he had closed the rest of the parks and recreation facilities.

Closed all of the states schools.

Suspended state tax payment requirements.

Closed all state campgrounds to out of state arrivals.

Delayed the primary election.

Issued a stay at home order for the state's most populous counties (and extended it later)

Announced increased testing statewide.

Gave local health departments enhanced authority to impose additional restrictions.

In less than a month was providing one million meals for children a day.

AND THEN THERE IS THIS RICH:

7/6/20 Gov. Justice issues executive order establishing statewide indoor face covering requirement​ for all public places where social distancing cannot be properly maintained.

Mandatory masks Rich. Do you support that?

I do.

But this is just the proof of our point. Even red states can beat this virus when and if they impose the same requirements as the blue ones.

Some of us don't want to live under the control of blue state communism and Marxism.

[Godstud]

So then @Hindsite keeping beaches closed is the smart thing.

The real common sense would be to shut down such a place, if they cannot operate under safety protocols, as the Democrat mayors did. Thank you for supporting my argument.

Surely you can't be so stupid as to not see the wisdom in keeping the beaches closed under such circumstances... can you?

This is political. If it wasn't political, you wouldn't be bitching about mayors closing down beaches for the safety of the people that they are sworn to serve.

Some of us don't want to live under the control of blue state communism and Marxism.

This was in West Virginia, under a REPUBLICAN governor.

[Hindsite]

So then @Hindsite keeping beaches closed is the smart thing.

The real common sense would be to shut down such a place, if they cannot operate under safety protocols, as the Democrat mayors did. Thank you for supporting my argument.

I don't support your argument. I think it is stupid, as well as unconstitutional, to shut down beaches and mandate mask wearing on them.

This is political. If it wasn't political, you wouldn't be bitching about mayors closing down beaches for the safety of the people that they are sworn to serve.

The Democrats want to keep everything closed for political reasons not for the safety of the people. They should know that it is unconstitutional, but the New Jersey Democrat governor said that was above his pay grade when asked about it.

[Godstud]

How is it unconstitutional? Please explain how it is unconstitutional.

I do not think that you even know what unconstitutional even means.

Does it say, somewhere in the Constitution of the USA, that you can't close down beaches for public safety?

[Atlantis]

I think it is stupid, as well as unconstitutional, to shut down beaches and mandate mask wearing on them.

It is as unconstitutional as the regulations requiring you to wear a seat-belt. Without a seat-belt you endanger your own safety, without a mask you endanger your one safety and the safety of others.

I don't want to live in a community with people who want to kill me by carelessly infecting me with a virus, just like I don't want pedophiles and killers to run free in my community.

It's either you or me. There is no room for both of us.

[Patrickov]

I don't want to live in a community with people who want to kill me by carelessly infecting me with a virus, just like I don't want pedophiles and killers to run free in my community.

It's either you or me. There is no room for both of us.

Well, it's not like Member Hindsite can spread the virus to us. At least (almost?) no government outlawed anyone by practicing the necessary distancing and social distancing measures. Not enforcing distancing is very different from criminalising distancing.

IMHO the above attitude should be exclusively against those openly supportive of oppressive regimes.