[Pants-of-dog]

Yet you take such good care in selecting your words so you don’t criticize the liberal Democrat.

I see what you’re all about.

Do you think that underreporting deaths is bad? Yes or no?

If so, then you agree with me that Cuomo and others should not have done this.

As for forcing seniors back into homes, that is a weird way of describing it. But I totally understand why Cuomo did not change the regulations until later: because the state did not have enough money to cover the costs if caring for the elderly while they recovered.

Try funding health care more.

[Finfinder]

Do you think that underreporting deaths is bad? Yes or no?

If so, then you agree with me that Cuomo and others should not have done this.

As for forcing seniors back into homes, that is a weird way of describing it. But I totally understand why Cuomo did not change the regulations until later: because the state did not have enough money to cover the costs if caring for the elderly while they recovered.

Try funding health care more.

You must be really bored so you pretty much agree with me except you won’t go so far as to criticize the Democrat who really fucked up here. I got it. By the way I haven’t forgot I’m still waiting for your proof that other governors underreported deaths. Ordering sick nursing home residents back into their facilities, what part of that is hard for you to understand or a crazy description? I think Cuomo did that because he was concerned that they would fill up the hospitals, apparently they were expendable to him.

[Pants-of-dog]

Cuomo should have immediately instituted single buyer health care across NY. He should have also created a UBI and given risk pay to all essential workers. He should also have transferred all social services usually run out of schools to community centres that would also have operated as testing clinics.

He should also have implemented a mandatory contact tracing system, and the required health database to run it.

As far as regulating whether or not senior homes should be required to take back seniors who may test positive, he should also have rescinded that, as well as sent inspectors to ensure regulation compliance.

And then he should have sent the bill for all of this to whatever federal body oversees Medicare.

[Finfinder]

Cuomo should have immediately instituted single buyer health care across NY. He should have also created a UBI and given risk pay to all essential workers. He should also have transferred all social services usually run out of schools to community centres that would also have operated as testing clinics.

He should also have implemented a mandatory contact tracing system, and the required health database to run it.

As far as regulating whether or not senior homes should be required to take back seniors who may test positive, he should also have rescinded that, as well as sent inspectors to ensure regulation compliance.

And then he should have sent the bill for all of this to whatever federal body oversees Medicare.

The state is basically bankrupt so they don’t pay for anything anyways.

[Pants-of-dog]

The state is basically bankrupt so they don’t pay for anything anyways.

I find this hard to believe, bit it is irrelevant since Medicare is a federal program.

[Finfinder]

Medicare is for people 65 and older.

[late]

Cuomo should have immediately instituted single buyer health care across NY. He should have also created a UBI and given risk pay to all essential workers. He should also have transferred all social services usually run out of schools to community centres that would also have operated as testing clinics.

He should also have implemented a mandatory contact tracing system, and the required health database to run it.

As far as regulating whether or not senior homes should be required to take back seniors who may test positive, he should also have rescinded that, as well as sent inspectors to ensure regulation compliance.

And then he should have sent the bill for all of this to whatever federal body oversees Medicare.

How does he double state spending when state income fell like a rock?

Most of the states are in financial trouble, they need financial help.

[Pants-of-dog]

How does he double state spending when state income fell like a rock?

Most of the states are in financial trouble, they need financial help.

Well, the health system would be cheaper or as cheap as what is being spent now, so it would be a matter of redistribution of wealth and not additional spending.

As for the UBI and risk pay, this money would be nothing compared to the trillions spent on businesses. And almost all of this money would flow back into business through spending. In this economy, it would probably act as a stimulus.

And Medicare can pay for the medical inspections at senior’s homes.

[late]

Well, the health system would be cheaper or as cheap as what is being spent now, so it would be a matter of redistribution of wealth and not additional spending.

As for the UBI and risk pay, this money would be nothing compared to the trillions spent on businesses. And almost all of this money would flow back into business through spending. In this economy, it would probably act as a stimulus.

And Medicare can pay for the medical inspections at senior’s homes.

That would have to be Federal funds.

Most states and cities are cutting back, because between the drop in income and the rise in expenses due to the disease, they are between a rock and a hard place.

[Drlee]

@Finfinder Who has a reading comprehension problem posted:

Dr. Lee’s mad I posted an article showing that the governor of New York ordered infected nursing home residents back into their facilities and then misreported the amount of deaths due to Covid.

The only state you mention is NY which YOU believe is a "left" state. As I said. You are looking for cover for your fellow murderous Republicans who have killed upwards of 400K Americans through their culpable negligence. How about you join me in condemning Governor Ducy of Arizona who not only won't order mask use, he prohibits local authorities from doing it. Care to condemn that?

Dr. Lee forgets that a hospital ship was sent to New York and Cuomo didn’t use it

Do try to do some study before you post nonsense. Did you know that the ship could not be used for Covid? But why don't you ask Trump about this part.

P

resident Trump left a nine-day sequester in the White House last week to travel to Norfolk, Va., to personally see off the ship as it set sail for New York, saying it would play a “critical role.” The ship’s arrival on Monday was cheered as one of the few bright moments in a grim time for the city.

But the reality has been different. A tangle of military protocols and bureaucratic hurdles has prevented the Comfort from accepting many patients at all.

On top of its strict rules preventing people infected with the virus from coming on board, the Navy is also refusing to treat a host of other conditions. Guidelines disseminated to hospitals included a list of 49 medical conditions that would exclude a patient from admittance to the ship.

Ambulances cannot take patients directly to the Comfort; they must first deliver patients to a city hospital for a lengthy evaluation — including a test for the virus — and then pick them up again for transport to the ship.

Dr. Lee forgets Cuomo praised Trumps efforts on COVID.

And you disagree with him? So do I. Trump could not have fucked up the COVID response worse.

Dr. Lee has no criticism for the Democrat Como.

I just did. But I really don't give a rats ass about Cuomo. He is not from my state and he is a Democrat. I am a Republican.

Dr. Lee has politicize this issue the most on this forum his projections get lamer and lamer.

If you mean pointing out the failures of the Trump administration and now the Biden administration then you are right. It is not possible to get "lamer" than the Republican response and I hold my party responsible.

Stop attacking the poster stop being a bigot Dr. Lee offer something else that is actually worth the bandwidth.

Google search "bigot" and try again.

[late]

Google search "bigot" and try again.

That we are still seeing brain dead assertions about COVID, at this point, is mind boggling.

Bots that breathe..

[Patrickov]

That we are still seeing brain dead assertions about COVID, at this point, is mind boggling.

To me, no more mind boggling than dictatorship apologists at large around various platforms.

Trumpists and Wuhan pneumonia virus deniers are, in comparison, minor nuisances, because they cannot enforce anything but the deaths of themselves, as proved in recent events.

[Doug64]

Apparently @Drlee believes either that teachers' lives are more important than those of workers in, say, your average Walmart, or that it isn't essential to provide our children with a decent education. Because remote learning clearly isn't hacking it.

Here's the latest numbers, both for inoculations per hundred thousand and deaths per million:

[Drlee]

Apparently @Drlee believes either that teachers' lives are more important than those of workers in, say, your average Walmart, or that it isn't essential to provide our children with a decent education. Because remote learning clearly isn't hacking it.

Two things. First of all I am absolutely prepared to acknowledge that you are stupid enough to think that what you posted was some kind of gotcha.

That said. You made a claim. You said "Because remote learning clearly isn't hacking it". Ok. Give us a source for that. Then show us that it is worth the lives of tens of thousands of Americans (or more) to put kids back in the classroom. Tell us why you think that teachers should be required to die because little Johnny's parents are tired of having him around. Tell us why remote education is not good for kids but works great for adults.

Now Dumb, I mean Doug. Tell us why classroom education can't wait until next school year to allow us to vaccinate all of the teachers and students so that we do not have another half a million dead.

Clearly Doug has no regard for the lives of others. As a career soldier I am well aware of what it is like to live in a world where everybody else wants you risk your life for them while they sit around the pool. Republicans just can't get enough of other people's deaths.

[Doug64]

You know, Drlee, there is such a thing as internet searches. It isn't hard to find evidence of the catastrophe that closing the schools has been for children, and that where schools have reopened they haven't been a driver of Wuhan virus spread. And from the CDC's infection fatality rate of 0.003% for ages 0-19, it's easy to see why--if every single student of a school of 2,000 caught the Wuhan virus, the odds that there would be zero deaths is over 94%. And considering that children don't seem to be as infectious as adults, the chances of that happening are essentially nil. For that matter, if every single one of the over 65 million minors in the entire US caught the virus, the total number of deaths would be less than 2,000. So think like an economist, and balance the handful of deaths against the harm inflicted on our children by not having them in school--especially to low income and special needs children.

Meanwhile, the backlash against governors is growing:

State lawmakers are pushing to curb governors' virus powers

Irritated by the sweeping use of executive orders during the COVID-19 crisis, state lawmakers around the U.S. are moving to curb the authority of governors and top health officials to impose emergency restrictions such as mask rules and business shutdowns.

The push is underway in such states as Arizona, Michigan, Ohio, Maryland, Kentucky, Indiana and Pennsylvania, where legislators are seeking a constitutional amendment to strip the governor of many of his emergency powers.

Pennsylvania Republican Sen. Wayne Langerholc said the amendment would “make it unequivocally clear that our General Assembly is a co-equal branch … that we are not a monarchy and that our voices matter.”

Democratic Gov. Tom Wolf and some of his counterparts around the country have argued that they need authority to act quickly and decisively against the fast-changing threat.

The coronavirus has killed an estimated 430,000 Americans and is going through its most lethal phase yet, despite the rollout of vaccines, with new and more contagious variants from abroad turning up in the U.S.

State legislatures generally took on lesser roles after the pandemic hit, with many suspending work or adjourning. It has been governors or their top health officials who have set many of the policies - imposing mask mandates, limiting public gatherings and shutting down dine-in restaurants, gyms, hair salons and other businesses.

Lawmakers in more than half the states have filed bills this year to limit gubernatorial powers during the pandemic and other emergencies, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Most legislatures began their sessions this month.

Kentucky’s Republican-led Legislature could consider as soon as next week whether to override Democratic Gov. Andy Beshear’s vetoes of several bills that would rein in his emergency powers.

Wisconsin’s GOP-controlled Senate voted earlier this week to repeal Democratic Gov. Tony Evers’ emergency health order, which would end the state’s mask mandate. The Republican-controlled Assembly called off a similar vote Thursday in the face of criticism from health, school and business leaders and concern that it could jeopardize more than $49 million in federal aid.

Wisconsin Republicans have argued that Evers exceeded his authority by issuing multiple emergency declarations during the pandemic, which enabled him to extend the mask mandate beyond the 60 days allowed under the law without getting the Legislature’s approval.

Evers contends that the changing nature of the pandemic warranted new emergency declarations.

The amendment Pennsylvania Republicans are seeking to place on the May ballot also would put a cap on the governor’s disaster declarations - 21 days, unless lawmakers vote to extend them. The Legislature also could halt them at any time with a two-thirds vote.

Wolf has said that prematurely ending his disaster declaration would itself be “disastrous” for the state and that requiring repeated legislative approval “could slow down or halt emergency response when aid is most needed.”

In Michigan, House Republicans have threatened to withhold billions of dollars for schools unless Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer cedes her administration’s power to prohibit in-person instruction and sports to local health departments. Whitmer called the move “cruel and reckless.”

Whitmer was the target of an alleged kidnapping plot last fall by anti-government extremists upset over her coronavirus restrictions.

Though legislative resistance to executive coronavirus orders has fallen largely along partisan lines in some states, lawmakers elsewhere are pushing back against governors of their own parties.

Republicans in the Arizona Senate want to end the broad emergency powers that GOP Gov. Doug Ducey has used to limit large gatherings and business capacities.

Ohio Sen. Rob McColley introduced a bill this week that could rescind emergency health orders issued by Gov. Mike DeWine, a fellow Republican. It would create a committee to retroactively review them. DeWine vetoed a similar bill last year.

McColley said the Legislature needs to take action “when the relatively unfettered power of the executive branch during a time of emergency has lasted as long as it has.”

In Indiana, Republican Gov. Eric Holcomb’s executive orders have also stirred opposition from his own party. GOP-sponsored legislation would require lawmakers to be called into session to extend a governor’s emergency order beyond 60 days.

South Carolina Gov. Henry McMaster is supporting legislation that would give lawmakers greater opportunity to pass judgment on his emergency declarations.

Under current law, McMaster can issue a declaration for just 15 days before the General Assembly has to weigh in. The Republican governor has skirted that by issuing 22 different declarations, with incremental changes, every two weeks or so.

McMaster has said his goal wasn’t to avoid legislative oversight; he said he couldn’t wait for lawmakers to meet when they were trying to stay apart during the pandemic.

Democrats who control the Maryland General Assembly are pressing for more transparency from Republican Gov. Larry Hogan’s administration. One idea would require him to go through a state board or alert a legislative panel before making emergency coronavirus purchases.

Hogan spent millions of dollars last year on a confidential deal to acquire COVID-19 testing supplies from South Korea that didn’t initially meet federal requirements.

A separate GOP-sponsored bill seeks to limit Hogan’s power by capping the number of times he could extend a state of emergency without legislative input. Hogan has denounced it as “about probably the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard in my life.”

Lawmakers are also seeking to rein in the emergency powers of local officials, especially in states such as Missouri, where the Republican governor has deferred most decisions on shutdowns and masks to cities and counties.

St. Louis County, the state’s biggest jurisdiction, has imposed a variety of restrictions, including periodic prohibitions and capacity limits on indoor dining at restaurants.

Jeff Fitter, the owner of Super Smokers BBQ, said his profits were cut in half last year. He is supporting a bill that would limit local emergency health orders to 14 days unless authorized for longer by the Legislature. It also would give tax breaks to businesses affected by occupancy limits imposed by cities and counties.

“One person, one pen, shouldn’t be the difference between my business surviving or its demise,” Fitter said. “That should be something that is ran through a legislative body.”

[Drlee]

Thank you for making my point Doug. It is true. Republican legislatures, following the lies of Donald Trump and the whining of business people, are more than willing to kill another half a million people for money. I get that you do not understand just how disgusting and inhuman your (and their) position is. I get that. But you are wrong. They are wrong. People are dying in great numbers because of Dickheads with your opinions. Enjoy the carnage. Explain it to God when you see Him. That is, if you see Him.

Note to others. This is not hyperbole on my part. Hundreds of thousands of people are dying from Covid because of people who think just like Doug. Make no mistake about that.

[Doug64]

So to be clear, Drlee doesn't believe in the science any more than the schoolteachers' unions do. And he still hasn't stated whether he believes teachers' lives are more valuable than those of other essential workers. And the latest science?

Rochelle Walensky, CDC director: Teacher vaccinations 'not a prerequisite' for schools to reopen

Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said Wednesday that teachers don’t have to be vaccinated for schools to reopen safely.

During a White House press briefing, Dr. Walensky cited data showing that mitigation efforts like social distancing and mask-wearing significantly reduces the spread of the coronavirus in the classroom.

“I want to be very clear about schools, which is: Yes, [the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices] has put teachers in the 1b category, the category of essential workers,” she said, according to a White House transcript. “But I also want to be clear that there is increasing data to suggest that schools can safely reopen and that that safe reopening does not suggest that teachers need to be vaccinated in order to reopen safely.

“So while we are implementing the criteria of the Advisory Committee and of the state and local guidances to get vaccination across these eligible communities, I would also say that safe reopening of schools is not — that vaccination of teachers is not a prerequisite for safe reopening of schools,” she added.

Dr. Walensky’s comments come amid intensifying criticism of teachers unions across the country that have refused to return to in-person teaching, arguing that vaccinations for teachers and increased funding are essential for returning to the classroom.

Meanwhile, the selfish, destructive resistance to school reopenings has gotten so bad that San Francisco, of all places, is suing its own school district:

The city of San Francisco took a dramatic step Wednesday in its effort to get children back into public school classrooms, suing its own school district to try to force open the doors amid the coronavirus pandemic.

The lawsuit was the first of its kind in California and possibly the country, as school systems come under increasing pressure from parents and politicians to end virtual learning. Teachers unions in many large school districts, including San Francisco, say they won’t go back to classrooms until they are vaccinated.

City Attorney Dennis Herrera, with support from Mayor London Breed, said he sued the San Francisco Unified School District and Board of Education as a last resort to salvage what’s left of the academic year. They say it’s safe to reopen schools and keeping them closed was hurting kids’ well-being.

“Not a single San Francisco public school student has set foot in their classroom in 327 days,” Herrera said at a news conference, calling it shameful and unlawful. “More than 54,000 San Francisco schoolchildren are suffering. They are being turned into Zoom-bies by online school. Enough is enough.”

The lawsuit highlights the growing tension and infighting nationwide between politicians who insist it is safe to return to schools with proper safety precautions and teachers who are on the front lines and have not been able to get vaccinated yet.

While the vast majority of California’s public schools have been closed since March, San Francisco schools have been allowed to reopen since September. Herrera noted that nearly 90% of schools in neighboring Marin County, including public schools, have resumed in-person instruction and that 113 private and parochial schools in San Francisco also are open.

The lawsuit says school administrators are violating a state requirement that districts adopt a clear plan “to offer classroom-based instruction whenever possible” during the pandemic. It seeks a court order to require schools to prepare to offer in-person instruction and file a detailed plan, Herrera said.

School administrators called the lawsuit an embarrassment.

“This isn’t helpful,” said Vincent Matthews, school district superintendent. “We’re all in this San Francisco pandemic bubble together, and turning on us is not helpful whatsoever.”

He said at a news conference that the school board and the district have been “feverishly working toward and fighting for and pushing for the return of students to in-person learning” and that they “absolutely have a comprehensive plan” for reopening.

However, Matthews said he could not give a timeline because of fluctuating virus rates and a lack of vaccines, for which California teachers are next in line. Some have started getting shots in rural areas.

In a recent study, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said there’s little evidence of the virus spreading at schools when precautions are taken, such as masks, distancing and proper ventilation.

Breed cited data showing that Black, Latino, Asian and low-income students have lost significant academic ground during distance learning, compared with white and wealthier students.

“Our kids are suffering, and the inequities that existed before this pandemic have only become more severe,” the mayor said.

Since the start of the pandemic, San Francisco has been on the cutting edge of COVID-19 restrictions. It was among the first U.S. cities to order a shutdown as part of other aggressive measures and has the lowest infection rates of any urban area in California.

“We have been a national leader in our response to COVID. Let’s be a national leader in getting our kids back to school,” Breed said.

She has repeatedly pushed for schools to reopen and has criticized the board for focusing on less urgent issues, most recently its decision to rename 44 schools it says carry the names of people with ties to racism, slavery or sexism.

Education board president Gabriela Lopez says the board can multitask.

“Our efforts to dismantle racist symbols and white supremacy culture does not diminish the board’s focus on other pressing matters,” Lopez said.

Herrera plans to file a motion Feb. 11 asking San Francisco Superior Court to issue an emergency order. If granted, the order would require the district to formulate a detailed reopening plan. He said the district’s current plan “is ambiguous, empty rhetoric. It is a plan to make a plan. It is legally insufficient.”

Gov. Gavin Newsom says he won’t force schools to reopen but wants to give them an incentive. He’s proposed a $2 billion plan to give schools that reopen quickly extra funding for COVID-19 testing and other safety measures. It has faced criticism from superintendents, unions and lawmakers, all of whom say the plan’s timeline and rules are unrealistic.

Newsom sidestepped direct comment on the San Francisco lawsuit, saying everyone is on the same page and wants to reopen schools safely.

“We’re just hammering out the details to do that, and I’m confident we’ll get there,” Newsom said.

And Governor Newsom can take his time and avoid offending anyone important, it's no skin off his nose--his children are attending a private school including in-person schooling.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Doug64

Your implied argument seems to imply that the public school system provides a necessary and important role in the health of a majority of US school children, and that this system needs to be adequately staffed and funded to provide said health benefits.

Do you agree with this assumption?

If not, please clarify how your argument does not rest on this assumption. Thank you.

[Drlee]

So to be clear, Drlee doesn't believe in the science any more than the schoolteachers' unions do.

I am a scientist. This is my field. I really don't care what bullshit narrative you are trying to sell.


And he still hasn't stated whether he believes teachers' lives are more valuable than those of other essential workers. And the latest science?

So let me explain what this scientist said:

“But I also want to be clear that there is increasing data to suggest that schools can safely reopen and that that safe reopening does not suggest that teachers need to be vaccinated in order to reopen safely.

Increasing evidence is not proof.

Teachers can evaluate whether or not their schools are adopting effective procedures. That is the point. Not that in some perfect classroom where there is perfect public health measures in place but THEIR OWN classrooms with the conditions that exist there. I know this is too hard for you to understand Doug. No wait. I should have said that you seem to believe that there are no number of unacceptable deaths as long as the kids get a babysitter and the local bar can sell beer.

Oh yea. I almost forgot. You have yet to show us proof that opening schools in March - June is worth the risk. Waiting until next year, after vaccinations have been given to most Americans is simply a prudent way to save tens of thousands of lives. (I hate people who like to see others die a horrible death for no reason.)

Then we have the very disturbing fact of now quire prevalent, highly contagious variants of the virus. It remains to be seen what protocols will be required to suppress these. Creating super-spreader events was always unwise (such as church meetings and Trump events) but it is particularly unwise now. How many grannies have to die to satisfy your blood lust Doug?

The schools should remain closed for the balance of the school year in favor of online schooling. After all. We are betting a mere 120 days of congregate classes against the possible deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

The teacher are right not to want to risk their lives and the lives of their students. And by the way. My online class went very well last evening. The students were so engaged that the discussion lasted 1/2 hour after the class' scheduled end time, and only ended then because I had an online meeting to attend. So don't tell me that online classes don't work. Good teachers are good teachers in classrooms, under trees or on Zoom.

[Stormsmith]

I would argue on line education will be the way of the future. Schools are expensive and yours aren't the best. You could save an assload of cash and give all students a superior education but you should nationalise access to the Internet