The Wuhan virus—how are we doing? - Page 44 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15125325
Rancid wrote:The WHO say's that they think about 10% of the global population has been infected already.

Which of course would mean a death rate of about 1 in 7000, no where near the 3% death rate that the Liberal lie machine was quoting.

Just a note on the cause. Note how the Liberal press demands we believe that President Putin launched a biological warfare attack in southern England in order to eliminate someone who was absolutely no threat to him but had criticised him. Yet the idea that the Chinese government would use a biological weapon on its own soil is according to the Liberals a wide eyed mentally ill conspiracy theory. Our modern Liberals just like their Nazi and Bolshevik fore runners hate conspiracy theories. They absolutely hate them. Unless of course they are their own conspiracy theories. Then it is forbidden to even question them.

I mean why on earth would the Chinese want to put down a protest movement with a virus. I mean Tienanmen Square was such a great public relations success, unlike the Wuhan virus. :roll:
#15125329
The important statement there is "they think". That does not mean they are sure. It is mere supposition and does not mean that other nasty effects of Covid-19 are being taken into account. They might well be saying "they don't know". I am sure you are keeping this in might, right @Rich ?

It's like those claims for Hydrochloroquine. They had lots of claims but until they did a study and proved it did fuck all, it was supposition that it helped.

The Chinese conspiracy crap is great nonsensical conspiracy theories. Keep it up! :lol:
Last edited by Godstud on 07 Oct 2020 06:42, edited 1 time in total.
#15125339
Rich wrote:Which of course would mean a death rate of about 1 in 7000, no where near the 3% death rate that the Liberal lie machine was quoting.


The 3% comes from confirmed cases. While the lower death rate comes from an estimate of infections given that many infections go untested/unconfirmed/asymptomatic. The 3% isn't exactly lie, but what they should have certainly done was be more clear in what they were saying. That is, based on confirmed cases, it's 3%, but that they think the real rate is lower given there are so many unconfirmed cases. Estimates like the 10% infection rate cannot be assessed early on, simply because there isn't enough data or understanding, so they have to go by the confirmed case count. It's the only somewhat reliable number they have. It takes time for them to draw up reasonable estimates. That said, when the 3% number is/was thrown around, they should have prefaced it with "worst case". As in "We believe the worst case death rate is 3%". I'm sure many scientists actually did say this, the problem is often how the media reports it.

Most of the time, scientists do report all the caveats to their data, but the media misses key information when they write about the research. I've seen this happen in many other areas as well, including in the industry I work in.

Basically, the media is bad at reporting science/research. Now, whether that is deliberate or not, it debatable. My personal belief is, they are just incompetent. The reality is, most people, including the media, don't understand science and how numbers work. Even when these people claim to be people of science. Hell, I've seen really really really bad math/statistics on these forums before. I'm not talking about the data itself, but how people compute and interpret numbers. That is a mess for many.

I remember most recently big steve was having a really hard time understanding per-capita comparisons, and proportion comparisons. Something you are taught in late elementary or early middle school. :lol:

I remember having to explain to one of my landlords how percentages work, because they kept calculating what I owed on trash service wrong. :lol: At one point, I had to tell her "look, I work with numbers every single day, and i work on things that if I mess up a calculation, people can die. Trust me, I am calculating this basic percentage right and your approach is wrong, just please trust me on this one." :lol: She finally yielded to me. Anyway, my point is, people are REALLY bad at crunching numbers, and even worse at interpreting them.
#15125359
To think how many people chip in to pay for President Trump 's world class at home health care are about to lose theirs, thanks to President Trump. Sad, really


Very true. And they are simply not intelligent enough to know it.
#15125601
Pants-of-dog wrote:Cool. They also must be isolated for two weeks now, which means they cannot see their families for the Columbus day long weekend. But getting Trump a photo op is more important than spending time with family.

This is assuming that you have no problems with deliberately exposing others to a potentially deadly disease for no benefit.

Along with all the Secret Service agents that were exposed to the president before he tested positive, those that accompanied him to the hospital, those that guarded him at the hospital, those that accompanied him back to the White House, and those that guard him now? It's not like these two agents were brought in specifically to take him around the block, and no reason the period in the car was any more "dangerous" than any of their other duties around the president. Unless their superiors are going to insist that all the agents that have been guarding the president through this go into two-week quarantine away from their families, they're in the clear. And given the probable ages of the members of their immediate families, they aren't at anything like serious risk even if the agents are infected.

Then there was the reaction of the MSM(D) to the video of Trump taking off his mask when he got back to the White House. I can't believe they're all as stupid as they seem to be, so the panic must be from fear that people might actually take those numbers the CDC put out seriously and so not take them seriously.
#15125611
Doug64 wrote:Along with all the Secret Service agents that were exposed to the president before he tested positive,


Yes.

those that accompanied him to the hospital, those that guarded him at the hospital, those that accompanied him back to the White House, and those that guard him now? It's not like these two agents were brought in specifically to take him around the block, and no reason the period in the car was any more "dangerous" than any of their other duties around the president. Unless their superiors are going to insist that all the agents that have been guarding the president through this go into two-week quarantine away from their families, they're in the clear. And given the probable ages of the members of their immediate families, they aren't at anything like serious risk even if the agents are infected.


No, other agents who can stay more than six feet away or work in the sterile and careful conditions in hospitals are at a far smaller risk of infection than these guards in the car. Would you like me to explain how?

But yes, Trump’s general cavalier attitude towards infection in general is a danger to all Secret Service agents.

Then there was the reaction of the MSM(D) to the video of Trump taking off his mask when he got back to the White House. I can't believe they're all as stupid as they seem to be, so the panic must be from fear that people might actually take those numbers the CDC put out seriously and so not take them seriously.


None of this is an argument or intelligent political commentary.
#15125625
It's not like these two agents were brought in specifically to take him around the block, and no reason the period in the car was any more "dangerous" than any of their other duties around the president.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Really Doug. Even you can't be that besotted with this dude.
#15125627
Calling it the Wuhan virus is racist against the Spanish. Do you have any idea how many people died to get the term "Spanish flu" coined?

Going back to the actual data from the WHO, which is the closest we can get to a neutral source: https://covid19.who.int/region/amro/country/us

Case numbers may have started to rise as it gets cold. Death rate has continued to be pretty much the same, perhaps a very slight decline, since late May, at less than 1/10th of heart disease (and hurting mostly the same classes of people).

Now personally I am doing my part by eating really healthy. Salad every day, usually no sweets. I make a lot of vegetable and potato soups. Many fruits. Heart disease won't get me!

Yes, this thread is now about heart disease.
#15125920
:lol: I hadn't kept my eye on Germany but I see they're now back up to 3300 cases a day. The death rate in absolute terms remains low but it has now quadrupled from its low point. And Germany's new Covid Stasi or whining about them losing control. This is yet another humiliating failure for the lockdown Liberals.

From a purely apolitical view point, there was a very sound case for slowing the curve. Slowing the curve, restricting the spread in the spring and early summer did have the potential to save lives. The problem is you can never get rid of the politics. Look at fascism, and it doesn't matter what the type of fascism is, whether its Mussolini, Nazism, Leninism. Maoism, Islamism, Ghaddaiffism, monarchical absolutism, Medieval Christianity, Papism they all say the same thing: We need to get rid of politics.

They all say that we need to get rid of democracy, free speech and politics, because some bad group, some evil group will manipulate democracy. free speech and politics, so we have to get rid of it. Obviously who the evil group is changes, for the Nazis it was the Jews, for the Medieval Christians it was those who were in league with Satan, for Stalinists in the the thirties it was those that were in league with Trotsky, for modern day Cultural Marxists its White suprematists. The good guys and bad guys may change but the fundamental story stays the same.

And the out come is always the same. I see people in the news article comment sections saying "its not lockdowns that have failed, its people that have failed". Yeah right, it wasn't Catholicism that failed but a few bad rogue paedophile priests. It wasn't communism that failed, but that people failed to be good communists. Or Hitler's rantings in the bunker, it wasn't him that had failed, oh no it was the German people that had failed him. The German people weren't good enough for Hitler. They weren't worthy of him.

Politics is bad. Its horribly inefficient. Its full of people lying cheating. Its full of delusion, egoism and hypocrisy. But it is inescapable and this COVID thing was always going to be political. There is no escape from politics. When ever I hear talk of rising above politics, when ever I hear people mouthing off nonsense about "this is not the time for party politics", then I know something is going to be really political. There was never at any point any excuse for the lockdowns, but the social distancing did have some success in reducing deaths, although no where near as much as claimed by the Lock down Liberals. The problem is the more successful or in many cases lucky you were in restricting COVID deaths and serious illness, the more trapped you become.
#15125943
Very.

Just like any thread on a scientific subject, it brings out the far-right loons and gravity deniers.
#15125995
Doug64 wrote:Some news the MSM(D) isn’t likely to cover properly, good new for anyone out of Michigan for anyone that supports civil rights:

Gretchen Whitmer exceeded powers during pandemic, Michigan Supreme Court rules


Is your US news covering the story of the people who tried to kidnap this governor for reasons that seem exactly like the accusations you have levelled at this person?
#15126129
Pants-of-dog wrote:But yes, Trump’s general cavalier attitude towards infection in general is a danger to all Secret Service agents.

I have no idea how many agents are around Trump on a regular basis, but let’s say fifty. If every single one of those fifty agents catch the Wuhan virus, the chance that there are any deaths at all is a hair under 1%. That’s not exactly a high level of danger.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Is your US news covering the story of the people who tried to kidnap this governor for reasons that seem exactly like the accusations you have levelled at this person?

Yup, but I expect that the MSM(D) will be shouting about this to the skies so I don’t expect to be posting any Washington Times articles about it. After all, I look to post articles that I don’t expect the MSM(D) to cover adequately. But since you brought it up, it’s interesting to compare the difference in the reactions between this and BLM, isn’t it? These radical Constitutionalists set out to target the person they hold responsible, the radical BLM’ers commit riot, looting, and arson in attacks on people that had nothing to do with it.

But that really belongs in a different thread.

As for this thread’s focus:

Thousands of scientists urge end to 'devastating' lockdowns

About 15,000 scientists and doctors worldwide have signed a newly created document urging an end to pandemic lockdowns, arguing that the policies aimed at curtailing the novel coronavirus have produced “devastating” effects on public health.

The Great Barrington Declaration, which was released Tuesday and continues to gather signatures, was spearheaded by doctors from Harvard, Stanford and Oxford University.

“As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection,” said the declaration.

The document argued for allowing most people to “live their lives normally to build up immunity through natural infection,” while improving safeguards for the elderly and others at greater risk of death from COVID-19.

“Coming from both the left and right, and around the world, we have devoted our careers to protecting people,” said the declaration. “Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health.”

They include “lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health—leading to greater excess mortality in years to come.”

The three lead signatories, who authored the declaration in Great Barrington, Massachusetts, are Harvard professor of medicine Dr. Martin Kulldorf; Oxford epidemiologist Dr. Sunetra Gupta, and Stanford Medical School professor Dr. Jay Bhattacharya.

As of Thursday afternoon, the document had been signed by nearly 5,000 medical and public-health scientists; nearly 10,000 medical practitioners, and more than 128,000 “members of the general public,” according to a tally on the website.

The signers disagreed with those in favor of maintaining restrictions until a vaccine is developed.

“Keeping these measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed,” the document said.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s government rejected Wednesday the no-lockdowns proposal, with a spokesperson saying it was based on an “unproven assumption,” according to the [U.K.] Independent.

“We have considered the full range of scientific opinion throughout the course of this pandemic and we will continue to do so,” said the Johnson spokesperson.

“But what I would also say is that it is not possible to rely on an unproven assumption that it is possible for people who are at lower risk, should they contract the virus, to avoid subsequently transmitting it to those who are at a higher risk and would face a higher risks of ending up in hospital, or worse in an intensive care unit,” he said.

U.S. shutdown policies vary from state to state, as well as city to city, with California and Hawaii under some of the toughest restrictions and South Dakota, Idaho and Utah with some of the lightest, according to a WalletHub analysis updated Monday.

California Gov. Gavin Newsom drew double-takes last week when his office tweeted a reminder to those going out to dinner to “keep your mask on in between bites.”

At the other end of the shutdown spectrum is South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem, who described lockdowns during a Monday special legislative session as “useless.”

“As you all might imagine, these last seven months have been quite lonely at times,” Ms. Noem said in defense of her hands-off policies. “But earlier this week, one very prominent national reporter sent me a note that said, ‘Governor, if you hadn’t stood against lockdowns, we’d have no proof of just how useless they really have been.’”

More than 36 million people globally have contracted the virus, resulting in more than 1 million deaths, according to Worldometer.
#15126163
Cool public petition signed by the dumbest randos in the world. This sure as hell ain't some astroturfed garbage.

“But what I would also say is that it is not possible to rely on an unproven assumption that it is possible for people who are at lower risk, should they contract the virus, to avoid subsequently transmitting it to those who are at a higher risk and would face a higher risks of ending up in hospital, or worse in an intensive care unit,” he said.


Translation: We are fine with people getting sick, just make the olds stay home and everything will be fine (hopefully). Loving the language of letting people ~get back to work~ when you can just send them money so they can survive.
#15126165
Right-wing religious conservatives only believe in Natural Selection, when they can benefit(cash in) from the old and sick dying. They don't want to help anyone if it costs them a red cent.
#15126207
Doug64 wrote:I have no idea how many agents are around Trump on a regular basis, but let’s say fifty. If every single one of those fifty agents catch the Wuhan virus, the chance that there are any deaths at all is a hair under 1%. That’s not exactly a high level of danger.


Please do not forget that death is only the most serious negative impact from catching Covid, and not the only one.

And you did not refute my point that Trump’s unintelligent behaviour (as a person who is contagious with Covid) ends up with him infecting others.

So, do you think the terrorist group that planned this kidnapping was in the right?
#15126209
Stormsmith wrote:To think how many people chip in to pay for President Trump 's world class at home health care are about to lose theirs, thanks to President Trump. Sad, really


That is how every American president has been treated in our history. Not sure how they do it in Canada but your observation is a partisan talking point.

Secret service agents are trained to take a bullet for the presidents they protect. They do not have different procedures based on the political party the executive in chief is affiliated with. We should note that liberals believe there should be a separate set of rules to only protect their personal interest and the not the occupant of the office.
#15126211
Finfinder wrote:
That is how every American president has been treated in our history. Not sure how they do it in Canada but your observation is a partisan talking point.

Secret service agents are trained to take a bullet for the presidents they protect. They do not have different procedures based on the political party the executive in chief is affiliated with. We should note that liberals believe there should be a separate set of rules to only protect their personal interest and the not the occupant of the office.


I think you are missing the point.
#15126213
:lol: I see the 7 day day average new case rate in Germany is over 2800. The daily death while still low is back up to 12, triple its low point. We had to endure the sanctimonious preening of German Liberals about how smart they had been in controlling the virus and how stupid the rest of us were. Could Germany turn into yet another Lockdown failure. We'll have to see, but even in Germany's its not looking good for the Lockdown Liberals.

Just a note about Japan. The Japanese actually rejected a lot of the demand of the lockdown liberals. Treating the international lockdown Liberal scientific establishment with total contempt. Dire things were predicted for Japan, when the dire predictions of the lockdown liberals failed to happen, these lying dishonest hypocrites actually tried to claim Japan as proof of the success of their strategy.
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