[wat0n]

That's one way of admitting you lost.

Why can't you just accept that, unfortunately, many Americans don't want to pay for healthcare at all, not even be taxed for it?

[late]

Why can't you just accept that, unfortunately, many Americans don't want to pay for healthcare at all, not even be taxed for it?

This country does reform piecemeal. The VA, Medicare, the CDC, Obamacare, etc.

We will do more.

[wat0n]

This country does reform piecemeal. The VA, Medicare, the CDC, Obamacare, etc.

We will do more.

Let's see if that's the case.

Ultimately it is necessary for 1) the US to get an unified healthcare system, 2) get everyone to contribute to it, according to their means.

[MistyTiger]

This country does reform piecemeal. The VA, Medicare, the CDC, Obamacare, etc.

We will do more.

I wish I shared your confidence in the government. We're at the mercy of Congress. If the majority in the Senate wants to improve things, then they will improve. If not, then nothing improves. The Senate has been very conservative in the last 10 or so years maybe.

[late]

Let's see if that's the case.

Ultimately it is necessary for 1) the US to get an unified healthcare system, 2) get everyone to contribute to it, according to their means.

Since you are arguing for a public/private split, you didn't mean unified.

But I know what you mean.

[Tainari88]

:lol:

Why can't you just accept that, unfortunately, many Americans don't want to pay for healthcare at all, not even be taxed for it?

The majority of American voters want universal single payer healthcare done through the government. That is a fact. The issue is that the Congress and the Senate are going against the majority of US voters. Why? Powerful health insurance lobbyists buying their votes to block it from coming to pass.

So the issue is not if the majority do not want it--but that the politicians are crooked and sellouts.

How to cope with that? Mass voting constantly and pressuring the sellouts till they resign. Putting in congress people and senators who will either do single payer universal health care of be voted out immediately.

Got to get tough on the sellouts. That is the answer.

Pew Center stats:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... -coverage/

Among the public overall, 63% of U.S. adults say the government has the responsibility to provide health care coverage for all, up slightly from 59% last year. Roughly a third (37%) say this is not the responsibility of the federal government, according to a Pew Research Center survey conducted July 27 to Aug. 2 among 11,001 adults.

When asked how the government should provide health insurance coverage, 36% of Americans say it should be provided through a single national government program, while 26% say it should continue to be provided through a mix of private insurance companies and government programs. This is a change from about a year ago, when nearly equal shares supported a “single payer” health insurance program (30%) and a mix of government programs and private insurers (28%).

[wat0n]

Since you are arguing for a public/private split, you didn't mean unified.

But I know what you mean.

That's part of an unified system, if there's a common insurance pool. The common pool is a good idea because it allows for risk sharing, thereby lowering premiums for everyone (or, if funded through taxation, having everyone pay taxes for funding the healthcare system allows for setting a lower tax rate to that effect).

Even if there are multiple payers, there can be compensation mechanisms that in practice create this insurance pool.

When I say the US healthcare system isn't unified, I mean that there's no such risk sharing. And that makes the system more expensive for everyone, including those of us who do pay for health insurance.

The majority of American voters want universal single payer healthcare done through the government. That is a fact. The issue is that the Congress and the Senate are going against the majority of US voters. Why? Powerful health insurance lobbyists buying their votes to block it from coming to pass.

So the issue is not if the majority do not want it--but that the politicians are crooked and sellouts.

How to cope with that? Mass voting constantly and pressuring the sellouts till they resign. Putting in congress people and senators who will either do single payer universal health care of be voted out immediately.

Got to get tough on the sellouts. That is the answer.

Pew Center stats:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... -coverage/

Among the public overall, 63% of U.S. adults say the government has the responsibility to provide health care coverage for all, up slightly from 59% last year. Roughly a third (37%) say this is not the responsibility of the federal government, according to a Pew Research Center survey conducted July 27 to Aug. 2 among 11,001 adults.

When asked how the government should provide health insurance coverage, 36% of Americans say it should be provided through a single national government program, while 26% say it should continue to be provided through a mix of private insurance companies and government programs. This is a change from about a year ago, when nearly equal shares supported a “single payer” health insurance program (30%) and a mix of government programs and private insurers (28%).

This is interesting but 37% against is not a low number. If you take the UK, you can find widespread dissatisfaction with the NHS (because of longer wait times) yet over 80% agree with its general principles ("As in 2021, a large majority of respondents agreed that the founding principles of the NHS should ‘definitely’ or ‘probably’ apply in 2022: that the NHS should be free of charge when you need it (93 per cent), the NHS should primarily be funded through taxes (82 per cent) and the NHS should be available to everyone (84 per cent).")

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publicatio ... -care-2022

What's interesting is that 37% is still probably lower than it used to be, which helps explain why is it that voters in red states have voted to expand Medicaid. Unlike zoning, this problem does seem to be solving itself - but, ultimately, it needs to be made clear we all have to contribute to funding. Yes, even low income households, according to their means and supplemented by taxation if necessary.

[Pants-of-dog]

Not really.

You also seem to somehow believe there aren't important constituencies who aren't willing to be taxed or pay insurance for getting healthcare. And then they're the same to complain when they don't or when it's expensive.

Please provide a current example of a movement of people refusing to pay taxes for healthcare.

[wat0n]

Please provide a current example of a movement of people refusing to pay taxes for healthcare.

Pretty much any libertarian movement falls into this category.

There's also a wing in the GOP that has this position.

[Pants-of-dog]

Pretty much any libertarian movement falls into this category.

There's also a wing in the GOP that has this position.

An example is:

ex·am·ple
/iɡˈzampəl,eɡˈzampəl/
noun
1.
a thing characteristic of its kind or illustrating a general rule.
"it's a good example of how European action can produce results"

Provide an example.

[wat0n]

An example is:

ex·am·ple
/iɡˈzampəl,eɡˈzampəl/
noun
1.
a thing characteristic of its kind or illustrating a general rule.
"it's a good example of how European action can produce results"

Provide an example.

Again, pretty much any libertarian movement will do.

Young Americans for Liberty, for example.

[Pants-of-dog]

:roll:

Again, pretty much any libertarian movement will do.

Young Americans for Liberty, for example.

This is not in a country with a single payer system.

And they are opposed to taxes in general.

Do you gave an example of a movement that refuses to pay taxes for healthcare?

[wat0n]

This is not in a country with a single payer system.

And they are opposed to taxes in general.

Do you gave an example of a movement that refuses to pay taxes for healthcare?

You do realize that being against taxes in general includes being against taxes for healthcare, do you?

[late]

You do realize that being against taxes in general includes being against taxes for healthcare, do you?

You do realise that you are talking about a handful of kooks?

This is a long ways from the numbers you were claiming earlier...

When Republicans got serious about killing Obamacare, they got so much crap from their people they went into hiding.

So maybe we put a cap on the crap??

[wat0n]

You do realise that you are talking about a handful of kooks?

This is a long ways from the numbers you were claiming earlier...

When Republicans got serious about killing Obamacare, they got so much crap from their people they went into hiding.

So maybe we put a cap on the crap??

@Tainari88 mentioned a survey suggesting 37% don't believe there's a federal responsibility for healthcare. This isn't low, at all, @late.

[late]

[usermention=23047]

@Tainari88[/usermention] mentioned a survey suggesting 37% don't believe there's a federal responsibility for healthcare. This isn't low, at all, @late.

I should care about a push poll?

Watching Republicans hide from the people that voted for them was hilarious.

[wat0n]

I should care about a push poll?

Watching Republicans hide from the people that voted for them was hilarious.

Indeed, and I also remember some booed when Biden said they want to privatize Medicare. It's not coherent, just as it's not coherent to expect to get a social insurance benefit without contributing.

[Pants-of-dog]

So it is impossible to find a group of people in Canada who are trying to stop tax funding of healthcare.

This makes it difficult to support the claim that people in a single payer system want to not pay taxes to support healthcare.

[wat0n]

So it is impossible to find a group of people in Canada who are trying to stop tax funding of healthcare.

This makes it difficult to support the claim that people in a single payer system want to not pay taxes to support healthcare.

We're talking about the US here.

I assume there are libertarians in Canada, but they are a very small percentage of Canadians and have little political power there.

[Pants-of-dog]

We're talking about the US here.

I assume there are libertarians in Canada, but they are a very small percentage of Canadians and have little political power there.

I was not.

I specifically mentioned Alberta.

In the USA, it is a difference dynamic.

The people want public healthcare, but the insurance companies have better lobbying power.