Turkish corvette rams Greek coastguard boat - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14888761
Kathimerini wrote:A Turkish patrol boat reportedly rammed a Greek coast guard vessel that was anchored off the island of Imia in the Aegean at around midnight on Monday.

The incident did not result in any injuries but only minor damage to the stern of the Greek vessel, yet it serves to illustrate the heightened tension in the area where Greece and Turkey came on the brink of war 22 years ago.

The Turkish naval presence, on coast guard terms, remains high in the area, where Greece also conducts frequent patrols.

The Greek government has not yet issued a statement on the incident.

Turkey disputes the sovereignty of the Imia islets, which it calls Kardak.

Kathimerini
#14888974
Turkish aide accuses US of unleashing Greece against it.



From what I read in Greek news all last night there was a stand-off between 8 Greek warships facing 11 Turkish warships that started departing early this morning. Erdogan made various provocations while the Greek and Turkish PM's spoke on the phone, Greek foreign ministry said that "Turkey has not just lost measure but also common sense, aside from violating international law they are also ignorant of geography". The EU said that "Turkey must refrain from provocations against EU member states" while the State Department said that Athens & Ankara must sort it out peacefully via diplomatic channels. Greek defence minister is scheduled to make announcements today after the NATO meeting.
#14888978
This isn’t the full extent of it. The Turks have been pushing around the Cypriots too. Egypt is getting annoyed because they had a oil/gas exploration deal with the Cypriots.

Within Turkey, we are seeing a very oppressive regime. Journalists and academics being arrested or just disappearing.

Why are Western governments still standing for this obvious authoritarianism? Surely it is past time that military cooperation and arms sales were suspended. Erdogan’s behaviour should be cause for Western governments and opinion formers to be called for the UN to take a stand.
#14888979
foxdemon wrote:This isn’t the full extent of it. The Turks have been pushing around the Cypriots too. Egypt is getting annoyed because they had a oil/gas exploration deal with the Cypriots.


Indeed, Italy has sent a frigate to Cyprus a couple of days ago. The Cypriots have deals on gas exploration with France, Italy, US, Egypt, Israel and Greece and Turkish warships are currently preventing a drill of Franco-Italian interests from drilling.

foxdemon wrote:Why are Western governments still standing for this obvious authoritarianism?


The silence is deafening.
#14888983
Go to 5:00 on this video to see digital representation of the ramming, which was intended to sink the Greek boat.

The video is in Greek:



Here a couple of weeks ago, Turkish ships tried unsuccessfully to force the Greek ship to change course making very dangerous manoeuvres as it can be seen from the video they released:

#14888990
FYROM PM Zoran Zaev has been in Turkey since Sunday.

Prime Minister Zoran Zaev of FYROM will travel to Turkey on Sunday for a two-day visit on the invitation of his Turkish counterpart Binali Yildirim, it was announced Friday.

Talks are expected to focus on bilateral and regional issues.

“One of the most fundamental elements of the strong brotherhood between the two countries is our compatriots living in FYROM,” said a statement from the prime minister’s office, which also expressed Ankara’s support for Skopje’s EU and NATO ambitions.
#14889051
ekathimerini wrote:Greek Defense Minister Panos Kammenos has slammed Turkey’s “provocative behavior” following a naval incident in the Aegean, saying it “goes beyond tolerable levels.”

In comments made after briefing NATO’s defense ministers in Brussels on Wednesday, Kammenos said that by violating Greece’s territorial waters, Turkey was also breaching European Union sovereignty.

Kammenos added that the Greek coastguard boat rammed by a Turkish patrol boat near Imia islets on Monday was property of the EU.
#14889080
@Rugoz

I'm perfectly fine with this except that Constantinople is currently majority Turkish, not Greek. West Turkey however should be its own independent state. Call it Pontus or something like that.

Actually btw, as someone who is knowledgable in European politics, have you heard anything in regards to a revival of the Megali idea? It has always struck me as fascinating when I first heard of it.

@noemon

I'm confused. Was the Turkish ship a military boat? If so, I'm going to search up Greece-Iran relations so we can have an excuse to take over Turkey. Old rivalries never change. Mwhahahahahahahaha!!!
#14889226
Turkish PM says U.S. has "secret embargo" on Turkey

Ahval news wrote:The United States has carried out a series of hostile actions against Turkey that includes a “secret embargo”, Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yıldırım told BBC Turkish in an interview on Wednesday.

The interview comes day before U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson’s planned visit to Turkey during a period of high tensions over Turkey’s military incursion into Syria that has raised the possibility of a military confrontation between the two allies.

Turkey launched Operation Olive Branch on Jan. 20 against Kurdish fighters from the Peoples’ Protection Units (YPG) in Afrin, an area of northwest Syria near the Turkish border.

“We announced the aims of this operation very clearly to the world,” said Yıldırım in the interview. “Our objective is to put an end to the rocket and mortar attacks carried out on our country from Afrin.”

Turkey considers the YPG to be linked to the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), a group that has been in conflict with the Turkish armed forces for decades, and is classified as a terrorist organisation by both the United States and Turkey. The United States, however, sees the YPG as an indispensable part of the coalition to fight the Islamic State (ISIS) in Syria.

“We are both part of NATO. We are strategic partners, allies. They have military bases in our country; we have been working together for years. And in spite of all that, America is walking hand in hand with terrorists,” said Yıldırım.

The presence of U.S. troops providing support to the YPG forces in Manbij, east of Afrin, has sparked the most intense disagreement between the allies, with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s demand that the troops withdraw before Turkish forces invade Manbij flatly refused by U.S. generals.

“Keeping the YPG in Manbij is a hostile action against Turkey,” said PM Yıldırım, adding that their presence would necessitate action from the Turkish side.

Yıldırım brought up a list of further Turkish grievances with the United States, including the refusal to extradite Turkish Islamist cleric Fethullah Gülen, who Turkey blames for the failed July 2016 coup attempt, and a reticence to provide Turkey with weapons that he described as a “secret embargo”.

“Look at the meager guns that were provided to the (Turkish) police,” he said. “And they had to go through congress just for those. But I didn’t see them asking congress when it came to airlifting tanks to the YPG.”


Erdogan wrote:To us, our rights in the Aegean and on Cyprus hold the same significance as Afrin"
#14891512
The problem is not just Erdogan....

Breitbart wrote:Officials in Turkey’s ruling party threatened this week to invade Greece to take control of disputed islands in the Aegean Sea.
As Hurriyet Daily News tells it, the situation began shifting from long-simmering back-burner grievances to a bubbling pot of war threats in 2016, when Ozturk Yilmaz assumed the deputy chairmanship of Turkey’s main opposition party, the Republican People’s Party (CHP).

Hurriyet describes Yilmaz as a fire-breathing populist-nationalist who “was not exactly among the brightest” of Turkish politicians. He went looking for a soft spot in Erdogan’s party he could hit with a barrage of populist rhetoric and decided to needle the Justice and Development Party (AKP) for its soft stance on reclaiming the Aegean islands from Greece.

Turkey controlled the islands until losing them to Italy in the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne, which formally concluded World War 1. The war saw the death of several empires, prominently including the Ottoman Empire of Turkey. Turkey lost its Aegean possessions but got to keep Turkish Kurdistan. Current President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his AKP party do not like the first half of that deal, and the Kurdish separatists of the PKK party do not like the other.

The islands passed from Italy to Greece, so getting them back would involve either winning legal disputes with the Greeks or attacking them. The legal disputes have been grinding along since 1996, so the Turks are growing impatient.

The inconvenient historical fact that the CHP was the ruling party of Turkey in 1923 and signed the Treaty of Lausanne gave Yilmaz little pause.

The official Turkish government line on the Aegean dispute is that Erdogan and Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras have spoken by telephone and arranged a meeting between their respective chiefs of staff to reduce tensions. It would also reduce tensions quite a bit if both AKP and CHP leaders would stop talking about invading Greece to take the islands by force.

Erdogan is one of those leaders, as the Gatestone Institute points out. Flush with war fever after his invasion of Syria to fight the Kurds of Afrin, Syria, Erdogan declared in a speech last week, “Whatever Afrin is to us, our rights in the Aegean and Cyprus are the same.”

Erdogan portrays the invasion of Afrin as a patriotic crusade that cannot be questioned by any true son or daughter of Turkey without facing charges of treason.

“Just as we disrupt the plots through Operation Euphrates Shield and Operation Olive Branch, and soon in Manbij and other regions, we can and we will disrupt the plots of those who engage in miscalculations on our southern border,” Erdogan said. “Our warships and air forces are keeping an eye on the area closely to intervene in every way when required.”

Operation Olive Branch is the name sarcastically given to Turkey’s invasion of Syria, which Erdogan portrays as a quest to achieve peace by killing every Kurdish “terrorist” in the region. Manbij is the next city in Syria he has been threatening to attack. There are hundreds of American troops stationed in Manbij.

Erdogan then extolled the glories of the Ottoman Empire and threw in a little Islamist rhetoric for good measure:

"We say at every opportunity we have that Syria, Iraq and other places in the geography in our hearts are no different from our own homeland. We are struggling so that a foreign flag will not be waved anywhere where adhan is recited."

Adhan is the Muslim call to prayer. Erdogan was, in essence, calling for a jihad to reclaim every bit of land Turkey has ever considered part of its “homeland” so he can build a new caliphate. He wrapped up his remarks by warning that what he has done in Syria pales in comparison to the “even greater attempts and attacks in the coming days, Allah willing.”

The Gatestone Institute notes that Turkey’s government religious ministry, the Diyanet, has explicitly referred to the Afrin operation as a “jihad.” Turkey’s previous jihads to seize or ethnically cleanse “homeland” turf have been insanely bloody affairs, including the Armenian genocide Turkey denies to this very day.

Erdogan is hardly the only Turkish leader talking this way about Greece. The current leader of the CHP, Kemal Kilicdaroglu, continued the effort to outbid Erdogan on Aegean belligerence by explicitly promising to “invade and take over 18 Greek islands in the Aegean Sea” if he prevails in the 2019 elections.

Kilicardoglu portrayed the islands as illegally occupied by Greece, insisted there is no documentation proving Greek ownership, and compared reclaiming them to Turkey’s 2015 military operation in Syria to protect the tomb of Suleyman Shah, the revered grandfather of the first sultan of the Ottoman Empire. In other words, the CHP leader was saying the Greeks squatting on those Aegean islands are comparable to the Islamic State, which was threatening to defile the tomb in Syria.

The Gatestone Institute’s roundup includes Meral Aksener, the leader of the newly-minted IYI Party, also known as the “Good Party,” which was established to offer a positive alternative to Erdogan’s authoritarian rule. Aksener is a charismatic female politician hailed as a serious threat to Erdogan in the next election, but she thinks the Aegean islands are “occupied homeland” that should be reclaimed by force, too. Aksener portrays such an invasion as a regrettable necessity rather than a thrashing those lousy Greek occupiers have coming to them.

Turkey’s pro-Erdogan Yeni Safak newspaper quoted the president and his Chief of Staff Hulusi Akar to the effect that Turkey is perfectly capable of fighting in Syria and Greece at the same time, and also quoted an unnamed high-level Turkish military officer who says plans for an invasion have been on the drawing board ever since Erdogan survived the July 2016 coup attempt against him. That would be the same Hulusi Akar that Erdogan will send to speak with Greece about the fate of the islands.

At the very least, it seems that few Turkish politicians want to risk being seen as soft on the Aegean, which is a disturbing prospect in a nation with Turkey’s current psychology and military capabilities. As Yeni Safak implies, it might also be an effort to rattle the Tsipras government in Greece, bullying them into making concessions in negotiations over the fate of the islands.

The war talk might also be an expression of general Turkish unhappiness with Greece over issues such as Athens’ refusal to extradite Turkish soldiers accused of participating in the coup attempt against Erdogan. According to the Greek government, the number of Turkish nationals seeking asylum in Greece has increased tenfold since the coup, leaving Greece second only to Germany as the destination of choice for Turks fleeing Erdogan’s wrath.

Greece has indicated it will fight if necessary.

“The Greek armed forces are ready to answer any provocation. We are ready because that is how we defend peace,” declared Greek Defense Minister Panos Kammenos last March, speaking at a military parade on the 196th anniversary of Greece’s war for independence from the Ottoman Empire.

The larger problem is that the international community might feel obliged intervene against Turkish aggression, which could include NATO, which happens to count both Greece and Turkey as members. That means Turkey could potentially become embroiled in two conflicts that could blow NATO apart, one in Syria against U.S. troops, and the other in the Aegean against Greece.
#14893228
:)

I have always thought the best thing about moving imaginary armies to conquer cities and countries is that you do not need to worry about logistics at all.

As for the main topic, I am bored to death of some Greek politicians love of using Aegean as an arena to wage their internal score-making efforts against their political adversaries.

I thought 7 years of recession, 1/4 reduction of GDP, record high levels of unemployment will bring some sense to them. Alas, no.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h6LcROkdUE

For once I have to agree with TRUMP on an issue. […]

Yes. It is gaming terminology.

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