Israeli troops kill dozens of Palestinians in protests as US embassy opens in Jerusalem – live updat - Page 15 - Politics | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

Moderator: PoFo Today's News Mods

Albert seems to be under the impression that all Jews support Israel. Most of the people I've been posting in this thread are Jews who oppose Israel. You are confusing Jews with zionism (don't do that, as it's anti-Semitic)

But anyway maybe my future will find me with a handsome gentlemen like Benicio :excited:
Beren wrote:Benicio would side with Israel if he were a real man like Weinstein.


Norman Finkelstein: Palestinians Have the Right to Break Free of the “Unlivable” Cage That Is Gaza watch / listen

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I want to turn to State Department spokesperson Heather Nauert, speaking on Tuesday.

HEATHER NAUERT: But let’s go back to something that we have covered extensively here, and let’s go back to the dire humanitarian situation in Gaza. We have had many Gazans who have suffered at the—from the loss of medical care, not being able to have access to enough medical care, not having access to consistent electricity, food, jobs and many other things, as well. The misery that is faced by people in Gaza is because of a result of Hamas. That is something that we come back to. People want to blame Israel for all of this that is going on over the past few weeks. Let’s take a look at the dire situation that people in Gaza are facing, and that is a result of Hamas’s governing.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: That was the State Department spokesperson. Norm, this whole—people forget that the blockade, how the—the origins of the existing blockade around Gaza as a result of Israel’s reaction to a democratic election that occurred in the Palestinian territories. Could you refresh the viewers’ minds about this? And who is responsible for the humanitarian crisis in Gaza?

NORMAN FINKELSTEIN: OK. First of all, as Amira Hass, the respected journalist from Haaretz, pointed out today in the newspaper, the blockade of Gaza, in its milder form, but still severe form, it goes back 27 years. It started in 1991 during the first intifada. The blockade was then significantly, qualitatively intensified after the Hamas won the parliamentary elections—what Jimmy Carter, who was an observer, called a completely and honest—completely honest and fair elections, in January 2006. The immediate reaction of Israel, followed by the United States and then the EU, was to impose this brutal blockade on Gaza, which at a certain point even blockaded, prohibited chips, potato chips, baby chicks, chocolate from entering Gaza. And then, after Hamas preempted a coup, orchestrated by the United States, Israel and elements of the Palestinian Authority in 2007, Israel ratcheted up the blockade of Gaza.

Now, who is responsible for the current crisis in Gaza? First of all, we have to be clear about—OK, let me start with who’s responsible. As you are no doubt aware, there’s been a—there’s a proliferation of reports, from the World Bank, from various U.N. agencies, UNCTAD, the IMF. They put out report after report after report after report. And there’s a complete—there’s a consensus. There’s a consensus that the proximate cause of the horror in Gaza, the proximate cause, is the Israeli blockade. It’s not Hamas. There might be some Hamas responsibility, but it’s so marginal, so minimal, as compared to that blockade.

Now, we have to be clear, and I don’t want to get too dramatic about it, too emotive about it, but we have to be clear about that blockade. Number one, it’s a flagrant violation of international law, because it constitutes a form of collective punishment. Number two, since 2012, the United Nations—and these are very staid, conservative bureaucrats, who don’t use—they don’t use poetic language. They start, in 2012, by saying—issuing a report in the interrogative: Will Gaza be livable in 2020? In 2015, UNCTAD issued a report. It then used the declarative. It said, on its present trajectory, Gaza will be unlivable in 2020. Now, bear in mind, literally unlivable. These are U.N. reports by professional economists. By 2017, the U.N., Robert Piper, he said, “We were too optimistic. Gaza passed the unlivability threshold years ago. Gaza, as we speak, it’s unlivable.”

Now, what does that mean concretely? Ninety-seven percent of Gaza’s drinking water is contaminated. Now, bear in mind, of the 2 million people in Gaza, 1 million or more, 51 percent, are children. One million or more are children. Sara Roy, who’s the world’s leading authority on Gaza’s economy—she’s at the Harvard Center for Middle Eastern Studies—in the latest edition of her standard work on Gaza’s economy, she says, “Innocent people, most of them young, are slowly being poisoned by the water they drink.” Now, Sara is a very respected, cautious economist, or political economist, as she calls herself. “Innocent people, most of them children, are slowly being poisoned.” That’s what Gaza is today.

Now, to get back to Nikki Keddie—Haley, excuse me—to get back to Nikki Haley, she said, “What country in the world would do anything different to protect their border?” Let’s be clear: That is not a border, and that is not a border fence. Baruch Kimmerling, the sociologist in Hebrew University, the late sociologist, he said Gaza is the biggest “concentration camp” ever to exist. David Cameron, the conservative British prime minister, he said Gaza is an “open-air prison.” Haaretz, the most respected of Israel’s newspapers, referred to the “Palestinian ghetto.” Israel’s snipers are poised not on a border. They’re poised on the perimeter—call it a concentration camp, call it a ghetto, call it an open-air prison.

And the people of Gaza—it’s unusual in the world today. As the United Nations Relief and Works Agency pointed out, they said Gaza is different than all the other humanitarian crises. Why? If there is a natural disaster, like a drought, people move. If there’s a human-made disaster, like Syria, people move. Gaza is the only place on Earth where the place is unlivable and the people can’t move. They can’t leave. They’re trapped.

And then that raises, for me, what’s the fundamental question. Even the human rights organizations which haven’t been bad, even they refer to Israel’s use of excessive force. They refer to Israel’s use of disproportionate force. Implicit in that language is, Israel has the right to use proportionate force. Israel has the right to use moderate force. In fact, leaving aside the legalities and the technicalities, let’s just look at the picture raw. Israel doesn’t have the right to use any force. Two million people, half of whom are children, are trapped, caged in an unlivable space where they are, to quote Sara Roy, “slowly being poisoned.” Unless you believe that Israel has the right to poison 1 million children, it has no right to use any force against the people of Gaza. They have the right to break free from the cage Israel has created for them.

AMY GOODMAN: So, Norm Finkelstein, as we begin to wrap up, what do you think is the solution?

NORMAN FINKELSTEIN: Well, there isn’t a solution. You know, there’s all talk—there’s a lot of talk about big solutions. I think what we need to do now, we have to assemble an international team of respected jurists. I would include John Dugard. I would include Alfred de Zayas. I would include James Crawford. These are the top people in international law. And they have to present a plan to end the illegal blockade of Gaza.

Now, Israel wants the protests to end. In fact, the people of Gaza, of course, have the right to nonviolently protest. Israel has no right to inflict that blockade. But for the sake of the people of Gaza, then let’s just have a quid pro quo: The Gazans will stop demonstrating, but you have to lift that blockade.

And I think a plan has to be presented by respected jurists, and then garner the support of the leadership in Gaza, which I think they can win, and then from the U.N. community. In other words, no more investigations. We have had enough investigations. We need now action. And that action means, first and foremost, that illegal, inhuman, immoral blockade of Gaza has to end.
skinster wrote:The only thing honest about your post is your very appropriate screen-name.

Back on topic:

Having read the letter, noting the author, as well as the two people mentioned in it, Jeremy CORBYN, as well as the Secretary General of the UN, it seems appropiate to call you out on,"The only thing honest about your post is your very appropriate screen-name".

It's laughable for you to use those three characters, ABBOTT,CORBYN & Antonio Guterres.

ALL three are rampant Left-Wingers, one, a former PM of Portugal, President of International Socialist & UN High Commissioner for Refugees.
The other two are noteworthy for being not worthy of note, save, as being political 'no-hopers'.

I take it that you produced that copy of a letter on the GAZA situation, out of jest, as opposed to an opportunity to contribute to any objective debate.

The situation in GAZA & the consequences are self-inflicted, a cynical attempt by militants to garner political empathy over the bodies of innocent infant children.

It's clear where you are coming from, where you are heading with it is a dead end I'm afraid. :) ;) 8)
Maybe a liberal zionist can help you understand that the situation in Gaza is not self-inflicted but very much created by Israel. Israel bears all responsibility for its crimes against Palestinians, including Palestine's refugees who they shot to death/injury live on camera in their concentration camp, this week.

In related news:

Israel Said 32 Countries Confirmed They'd Attend U.S. Embassy Gala. Here's Who Really Came
After an initial attendance list was published in Haaretz, several countries – including Serbia, Vietnam, Peru, El Salvador and the Ivory Coast – denied they had confirmed their attendance and said they weren’t planning to come

Twenty-two foreign envoys attended the Foreign Ministry reception on Sunday in honor of the U.S. Embassy’s move to Jerusalem the following day, according to the final list of participants submitted to Haaretz... ... gn=General
skinster wrote:I saw videos of that. Are there more planned? There's a large one at Times Square this Friday and scummy zionists are doing a counter-protest, scummy zionists that look as you describe, like JDL thugs.

The difference in numbers of those there for Palestine and those there against it is always a happy reminder that the majority are on the side of justice, for Palestinians, no matter how loud zionists bark.

There's one in Nottingham this Friday as far as I'm aware. If there is one in London, I will defo go again.
I said Israel should be ashamed – now I am the one who is ashamed
On Tuesday Daniel Sugarman wrote an article on the clashes at the Gaza border. Today he acknowledges that he was wrong.

Palestinian protestors at the Gaza border(Photo: Twitter @IDF)
It’s never easy to say you’re sorry.

To admit you’re wrong. To announce publicly, “I made a mistake”.

But to apologise when that apology comes bound up with what is, perhaps, the most intractable conflict on earth, makes it a thousand times harder.

But that is what I am. Sorry.

A few days ago I wrote a column about the latest round of violence on the border with Gaza.

It was a cry from the heart. I love Israel. I have always loved it, and cannot envision a time when I will not love it.

But in my office, I sit near a television set. And on Monday, I saw the following, side by side.

On the left, in Jerusalem, I saw happy faces. Self-congratulatory faces. I saw the Prime Minister of Israel talking about how the opening of the US embassy in Jerusalem was a big step towards peace.

And on the right, simultaneously, in Gaza, I saw tear gas, and smoke, and bullets.

And it was in this context that I wrote my piece, which was an extremely personal one. I wrote it in anguish. I wrote it making clear that I despised Hamas and all it stood for. But I also wrote the following:

“Every bullet Israel fires, every life Israel takes, makes this situation worse. There are ways to disperse crowds which do not include live fire. But the IDF has made an active choice to fire live rounds and kill scores of people. You cannot tell me that Israel, a land of technological miracles which have to be seen to be truly believed, is incapable of coming up with a way of incapacitating protestors that does not include gunning dozens of them down. But no. In front of the entire world, Israel keeps shooting, and protestors, including very young protestors, keep dying. You may tell me that Hamas wants these deaths, wants to create martyrs, wants to fill the hearts of the people of Gaza with rage against Israel because the alternative is for people to look at their lives in Gaza and rage against Hamas. But if you tell me that, why are you not asking yourselves why Israel is so willingly giving Hamas exactly what it wishes?”

I received a lot of praise for my piece, from people I admire greatly, as well as from a great many unexpected sources, including from within the Jewish community.

I also received a lot of criticism. I got called a traitor, and that most vile of all insults a Jew can bestow or receive, a “Kapo”.

People also wrote pieces in response. I was told that, as a Jew not currently living in Israel, my greatest worry was whether Starbucks would have almond-soya milk for my latte.

But the criticism I paid more attention to was from people who pointed out that it was absurd to deal in hypotheticals. I’d said that surely there must be a way the protestors could be stopped without shooting live ammunition at them – that Israel, with its incredible technological capabilities, must be capable of developing a way. That was a cry of anguish, but it was not an argument. If no such technology currently exists, then it was absurd of me to blame the IDF for not magically willing it into existence. The traditional crowd stopping technology would not have worked effectively. Rubber bullets are only short range. The same with water cannons. And with tens of thousands of people rushing the border, this would have been extremely unlikely to work effectively. The border would have been broken through. And then, without much of a doubt, a lot of people in Israel would have died. That was, after all, Hamas’s stated aim.

But what really affected me the most was yesterday, when a Hamas operative went on television and claimed that, of the 62 people killed in the last two days, fifty were Hamas operatives. Islamic Jihad claimed three more, meaning that over 80 percent of the people who were killed while trying to breach the border were members of terrorist organisations whose direct aim is to bring death and suffering into Israel.

And I opened my eyes and saw what I had done.

I had fallen into the trap I had always been convinced I would not fall into. I had condemned Israel for defending itself.

There are things one can write about how Israel could have acted differently in the run-up to these attempts to charge the border. But I did not write about those in my original piece. I wrote that, by killing the Palestinians running towards them, the IDF was giving Hamas exactly what it wished for – martyrs for the cause.

I failed to acknowledge that, either way, Israel would be giving Hamas what it wanted. Shoot at those charging at you and Hamas would have its martyrs. Fail to shoot and Hamas would break through the barrier and bring suffering and death – its stated aim - to Israelis living only a few hundred metres away from that barrier. The march may have originally been, as it was declared to be, about Palestinians returning to the homes they had to leave 70 years before. But Hamas’s aim was far more straightforward - “We will take down the border and we will tear out their hearts from their bodies.”

I wrote in my previous article that Israel was a regional powerhouse, and that it was strong enough to take criticism from Jews in the Diaspora.

I still believe it is strong enough to do so. I just don’t believe that my criticism of it was valid. Given the circumstances, and the situation on the ground, I am at a loss in terms of coming up with a better solution. The choice was, quite literally, shoot at people running at you with the stated aim of killing you and your families, or fail to shoot and let them do it.

A few days ago I said I could not and would not defend Israel’s actions. Now, in the cold light of day, I could not and would not see how I would fail to defend them.

I said that Israel should be ashamed of its actions. But today I am the one ashamed. ... d-1.464233
It seems that Spinster dont care about The Palestinians when they are getting killed by her hero Bashar Assad the butcher :lol:

so far 4000 died in the Syrian war mostly killed by SAA and their terrorist allies ... brutal-war

Nearly four thousand Palestinian refugees have been killed in Syria's war as the country's fragile stateless minority struggles to survive in the deadly seven-year conflict.

Hundreds of thousands of civilians have been killed in the Syrian war, mostly by the regime and its powerful allies, while millions more have been displaced both inside and outside of Syria.

Syria is home to 12 Palestinian refugee camps, three of them unofficial, according to the UN Palestinian refugee agency.

Before the deadly conflict began in 2011 there were around 560,000 Palestinian refugees in Syria, descendants of those who were expelled or fled during the establishment of Israel in 1948 in the events of the Nakba.

Since fighting began, more than 85,000 Palestinians have fled Syria to Europe while tens of thousands more have sought refuge in neighbouring countries.

The Action Group for Palestinians in Syria said this week that a total of 3,685 Palestinian refugees, including 467 women, have been killed in the war.

Over 87 percent of the victims are civilians, including 200 Palestinian children. The preliminary cause of death was regime bombing followed by sniper fire and death under torture by the regime. The Syrian regime has detained some 1,600 Palestinians, the group added, while several prominent Palestinian camps in Damascus and Aleppo, Syria's largest city, have been destroyed in the course of the war.

In the Deraa and Yarmouk refugee camps water supplies have been cut off by the Syrian regime for 1,447 and 187 days respectively, the action group said.

Syrian regime forces have also been in control of the Handarat camp for nearly 18 months, with more than 80 percent of its buildings completely or partially destroyed.

The Syrian conflict began when the Baath regime, in power since 1963 and led by President Bashar al-Assad, responded with military force to peaceful protests demanding democratic reforms during the Arab Spring wave of uprisings, triggering an armed rebellion fueled by mass defections from the Syrian army.

The brutal tactics pursued mainly by the regime, which have included the use of chemical weapons, sieges, mass executions and torture against civilians have led to war crimes investigations.
Zionist Nationalist wrote:It seems that Spinster dont care about The Palestinians when they are getting killed by her hero Bashar Assad the butcher :lol:

so far 4000 died in the Syrian war mostly killed by SAA and their terrorist allies ... brutal-war

Who is killing them there? They are siding with Assad
  • 1
  • 13
  • 14
  • 15
  • 16
  • 17
  • 49

Business prefer even brexit to Corbyn. This is a g[…]

You realize the tax you suggest will be the end o[…]

The Trump Shut Down

I live in a red state. ... that just elected a b[…]

Whoa. Fewer marginal tax brackets. Wow. Strong […]