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Beren wrote:I wonder whether the Saudis would have reacted the same way if they had only been criticised, the real problem is that the Canadians asked them to immediately release civil society and women's rights activists, which is interfering rather than criticism actually.
Rancid wrote:Cultural warfare!!!
Rancid wrote:Seriously though, why aren't we talking about how the US is to blame?
There is a certain arrogance present in many Western people that whatever they believe is just is also just in an absolute way for the whole world.As I mentioned earlier, the West's stand on homosexuality, abortion, monogamy and so on are not shared by a majority of other countries.
I believe this dispute sets an example for other countries not to interfere with internal matters of Saudi Arabia. Or else forget about doing business with them.
Rancid wrote:Anyway, I don't believe Saudi Arabia supported Al-Qaida on the 9/11 attacks.
Oxymandias wrote:It is proper to have varying legal systems which can accommodate each person's conscience.
Albert wrote:USA and Saudi relations are one of paradox, I honestly do not understand how they are in good relations til this day.
Moussaoui Calls Saudi Princes Patrons of Al Qaeda
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/04/us/z ... qaeda.html
There has long been evidence that wealthy Saudis provided support for bin Laden, the son of a Saudi construction magnate, and Al Qaeda before the 2001 attacks. Saudi Arabia had worked closely with the United States to finance Islamic militants fighting the Soviet Army in Afghanistan in the 1980s, and Al Qaeda drew its members from those militant fighters.
Moussaoui said in the prison deposition that he was directed in 1998 or 1999 by Qaeda leaders in Afghanistan to create a digital database of donors to the group. Among those he said he recalled listing in the database were Prince Turki al-Faisal, then the Saudi intelligence chief; Prince Bandar Bin Sultan, the longtime Saudi ambassador to the United States; Prince al-Waleed bin Talal, a prominent billionaire investor; and many of the country’s leading clerics.
“Sheikh Osama wanted to keep a record who give money,” he said in imperfect English — “who is to be listened to or who contributed to the jihad.”
Mr. Moussaoui said he acted as a courier for Bin Laden, carrying personal messages to prominent Saudi princes and clerics. And he described his training in Qaeda camps in Afghanistan.
Also filed on Monday in the survivors’ lawsuit were affidavits from former Senators Bob Graham of Florida and Bob Kerrey of Nebraska and the former Navy secretary John Lehman, arguing that more investigation was needed into Saudi ties to the 9/11 plot. Mr. Graham was co-chairman of the Joint Congressional Inquiry into the attacks, and Mr. Kerrey and Mr. Lehman served on the 9/11 Commission.
“I am convinced that there was a direct line between at least some of the terrorists who carried out the Sept. 11 attacks and the government of Saudi Arabia,” wrote Mr. Graham, who has long demanded the release of 28 pages of the congressional report on the attacks that explore Saudi connections and remain classified.
Oxymandias wrote:If certain people want to live in a place with a specific legal system, let them. Such a legal system only applies to themselves and not anyone else. By preventing communities and people from belonging to a legal system which accommodates them, you are encouraging them to force their value system on others. In this system, people who have a specific system of morality can have a legal system which accommodates them without encouraging them to force their system of morality unto others.
There should be limits of course, but as long as they are hurting no one and as long as their legal system doesn't force people within it to stay in it, then it is fine regardless of how disagreeable their values are.
That is how morality works, not a legal system. People have different systems of morality so it is beneficial to just let people who want to follow a legal system that accommodates their sense of morality do so. This is the basis of polycentric law. You cannot expect everyone to be fine with one particular form of justice since even people who align with a particular system of morality have different conceptions of this. It is proper to have varying legal systems which can accommodate each person's conscience.
Well the Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee and the co-chair of the Joint Inquiry into Intelligence Community Activities before and after the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001 definitely believes it.
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