[Sherlock Holmes]

I see rather a lot of pick up truck stickers here in Arizona, sporting this slogan:



That one depicts a militant terrorist who supported treason against the British. Isn't it odd how so many Americans applaud that terrorism yet regard Palestinians doing the same thing as illegitimate...

[wat0n]

How many British civilians were killed by the Americans?

[Pants-of-dog]

The parallels are actually impressive.

Many British civilians were killed by US revolutionaries. Much like Israelis were killed by Hamas.

But far more US civilians were killed by British forces. Much like how far more Palestinians were killed by the IDF and Israeli government.

The US revolutionaries were portrayed as rebels, much like Hamas is portrayed as terrorists.

The US revolutionaries publicized British atrocities in order to galvanize support for their revolution. Hamas does the same in capitalizing on IDF atrocities.

And the US won that one, right?

[Potemkin]

You walked straight into that one @wat0n...

[QatzelOk]

The police attacked the encampment here in Edmonton at the University of Alberta campus.

Police used batons and apparently some weird sort of pepper bullets.

So we have police using violence against a peaceful protest.

Oil companies owe the Israelis big time.

So I'm not surprised that Oil Company province won't tolerate protests against Oilfields-watchmen .

[Unthinking Majority]

You were asked to find where in that is the text that shows that all Canadians must die. Since you have not shown that, it can be assumed that it is a difficult interpretation to support.

Now, if I were to simply replace “Canadian” with Israeli (or Chilean or US), we would have the same criticism of settler colonialism and still no call for genocide.[

They're 2 different situations with different context. In this case, the Israelis are indigenous to Israel, which was afterwards renamed as "Palestine" after the Muslim Arab empire settler colonials invaded and conqured Israel. The Israelis did not sign most of their land away with legal treaties like the Canadian indigenous people did.

If indigenous people in Canada want all of their land back that they signed away, ok they have a right to protest for that. If the indigenous people of Canada elected a government that were known jihadist terrorists that target civilians to murder and in their Charter seek to "obliterate" Canada through jihad and kill non-indigenous Canadians, and committed genocide including rape and hostage-taking on Oct 7 and who chant "From ocean to ocean Turtle Island will be free", then other "peaceful" protestors who join those chants after a genocide has taken place may want to find a different slogan than the one the genocidal terrorists use.

We've seen a whole bunch of pro-Palestine protestors including students support Oct 7, and you yourself refuse to condemn Oct 7, so it's pretty hard to tell peaceful from genocidal protestors these days if they're saying similar things and seem to mostly all support each other and use anti-Zionist chants that Hamas uses. Of course we have York U student union groups supporting Oct 7 as a "strong act of resistance". I'd love to see some student protestors and more pro-Palestine supporters in general on video or in writing condemning Oct 7.

https://www.cp24.com/news/abhorrent-yor ... lay%3Dtrue

No.

Police brutality as a reaction to a peaceful protest is illegal, an overreach of government power, and anti-democratic.

This is relevant.

What you're saying is legally incorrect. It was an illegal protest because they were served a trespass notice and refused to leave. Nobody has a Charter right to peaceful protest on private property that doesn't belong to them. Nobody has a right to go on private property and set up dozens of tents and pitching signs in the ground etc without the consent of the property owners/management.

The public is not allowed into a Walmart store at all hours of the night,

The public is allowed on university grounds at all hours of the night.

So being on university grounds is not trespassing.

You're right, and that's not why they were trespassed. Students aren't allowed inside their university at all hours of the night, but they can walk on outside grounds just like they can walk through the Walmart parking lot. The protestors are allowed to protest on university groups just like the university has said, they aren't allowed to set up dozens of tents on the quad. They were trespassed for setting up camps, that's exactly what the school and police said.

Feel free to bring dozens of your friends to a Walmart parking lot and set up dozens of tents and form an encampment and sleep overnight and see what happens. Bring some signs and protest whatever you don't like about Walmart too if you like, or any other cause. 100% guarantee you'll be trespassed and if you don't leave then the police will be called and force you to leave. When people don't comply with lawful orders police have every right to use the minimal amount of violence necessary to enforce the law, including tear gas, pepper spray, and forcing people into handcuffs for arrest.

If you wish to continue to not understand basic property law and Charter law feel free.

[Pants-of-dog]

They're …..terrorists use.

I am not going to address speculative fiction.

I have provided an example of discussing the abolition of a country because of its settler colonial history, and I explained how it does not require (or even advocate for) killing all the colonial group. Unless you can show that this necessarily requires the extermination of the colonial group, the inference that these protesters and Hamas want to kill is merely an inference.

We've seen a whole bunch of pro-Palestine protestors including students support Oct 7, and you yourself refuse to condemn Oct 7, so it's pretty hard to tell peaceful from genocidal protestors these days if they're saying similar things and seem to mostly all support each other and use anti-Zionist chants that Hamas uses.

I find it very easy to tell if a protest is peaceful. Are they hurting anyone? No? Then it is peaceful.

This is not difficult.

Of course we have York U student union groups supporting Oct 7 as a "strong act of resistance". I'd love to see some student protestors and more pro-Palestine supporters in general on video or in writing condemning Oct 7.

https://www.cp24.com/news/abhorrent-yor ... lay%3Dtrue

Here is a question for you:

Is the occupation legitimate?

What you're saying is legally incorrect. It was an illegal protest because they were served a trespass notice and refused to leave. Nobody has a Charter right to peaceful protest on private property that doesn't belong to them. Nobody has a right to go on private property and set up dozens of tents and pitching signs in the ground etc without the consent of the property owners/management.

My claim here is about police violence.

Police violence is not dependent on whether or not something is legal. A person can be found doing something illegal and it is still illegal for the cops to use more force than necessary. If a cop pulls you over for speeding, he is not allowed to beat you with a baton even though you were doing something illegal and dangerous.

You're right, and that's not why they were trespassed. Students aren't allowed inside their university at all hours of the night, but they can walk on outside grounds just like they can walk through the Walmart parking lot. The protestors are allowed to protest on university groups just like the university has said, they aren't allowed to set up dozens of tents on the quad. They were trespassed for setting up camps, that's exactly what the school and police said.

Yea, their big awful sin was putting up tents.

This apparently merits police violence according to you.

….. police have every right to use the minimal amount of violence necessary to enforce the law, including tear gas, pepper spray, and forcing people into handcuffs for arrest.

Is hitting protesters with batons also considered “minimal amount of violence”?

[wat0n]

The parallels are actually impressive.

Many British civilians were killed by US revolutionaries. Much like Israelis were killed by Hamas.

But far more US civilians were killed by British forces. Much like how far more Palestinians were killed by the IDF and Israeli government.

The US revolutionaries were portrayed as rebels, much like Hamas is portrayed as terrorists.

The US revolutionaries publicized British atrocities in order to galvanize support for their revolution. Hamas does the same in capitalizing on IDF atrocities.

And the US won that one, right?

So how many British civilians were killed by the revolutionaries?

You walked straight into that one @wat0n...

How so?

Were they kidnapped for ransom or raped by the revolutionaries?

[Unthinking Majority]

I am not going to address speculative fiction.

I have provided an example of discussing the abolition of a country because of its settler colonial history, and I explained how it does not require (or even advocate for) killing all the colonial group. Unless you can show that this necessarily requires the extermination of the colonial group, the inference that these protesters and Hamas want to kill is merely an inference.

It's not an inference that Hamas wants to kill because they do kill and they advocate jihad against Jews in their charter. We also know that at least some (percentage unknown) of these student protestors support the Oct 7 genocidal attack because it's on video.

I find it very easy to tell if a protest is peaceful. Are they hurting anyone? No? Then it is peaceful.

This is not difficult.

So if the KKK show up and a bunch of them advocate killing black people this is peaceful protest?

Here is a question for you:

Is the occupation legitimate?

Which occupation specifically?

My claim here is about police violence.

Police violence is not dependent on whether or not something is legal. A person can be found doing something illegal and it is still illegal for the cops to use more force than necessary. If a cop pulls you over for speeding, he is not allowed to beat you with a baton even though you were doing something illegal and dangerous.

That's right, because when the cop gave the speeder a lawful order to pull over and stop breaking the law the speeder complied. If the speeder kept speeding instead of pulling over, or pulls over and locks his doors and doesn't roll down his window or refuses to show him his license when the cop lawfully requests it the driver could be forcefully removed from his car in order comply with the law.

Similarly, when the police informed the students that the school had issued them a trespass order and they needed to comply there would have been no violence if all the students complied, and a bunch did. Instead many refused to comply.

I am definitely not a boot licker, I don't condone police abuse of power, but they have a right to enforce the law and people have a duty to comply if it's a lawful order. If it's not a lawful order people can try to verbally refuse, and often should, but when it comes to an unlawful arrest or other physical altercation it's a much better idea to not resist arrest and instead fight it in court rather than get in a physical fight you can't possibly win and risk getting hurt.

Is hitting protesters with batons also considered “minimal amount of violence”?

Possibly not. I have no idea in this case, it depends on the context.

[Pants-of-dog]

It's not an inference that Hamas wants to kill because they do kill and they advocate jihad against Jews in their charter. We also know that at least some (percentage unknown) of these student protestors support the Oct 7 genocidal attack because it's on video.

As long as you have abandoned the argument that everyone who criticizes settler colonialism in Israel is antisemitic and wants to kill all the Jews.

So if the KKK show up and a bunch of them advocate killing black people this is peaceful protest?

Yes, the KKK do this quite often. And they often get police protection.

And they actually and openly want to kill all the Jews.

I guess these protesters are worse than the Klan?

Which occupation specifically?

The occupation of Gaza.

Is it legitimate?

That's right, because when the cop gave the speeder a lawful order to pull over and stop breaking the law the speeder complied. If the speeder kept speeding instead of pulling over, or pulls over and locks his doors and doesn't roll down his window or refuses to show him his license when the cop lawfully requests it the driver could be forcefully removed from his car in order comply with the law.

Similarly, when the police informed the students that the school had issued them a trespass order and they needed to comply there would have been no violence if all the students complied, and a bunch did. Instead many refused to comply.

I am definitely not a boot licker, I don't condone police abuse of power, but they have a right to enforce the law and people have a duty to comply if it's a lawful order. If it's not a lawful order people can try to verbally refuse, and often should, but when it comes to an unlawful arrest or other physical altercation it's a much better idea to not resist arrest and instead fight it in court rather than get in a physical fight you can't possibly win and risk getting hurt.

Show me the law where it says that cops in Alberta can hit people for not complying.

Possibly not. I have no idea in this case, it depends on the context.

In this context, obviously.

Because social media has lots of footage of cops hitting protesters. Convince me this is the minimal amount of violence necessary.

[QatzelOk]

It's not an inference that Hamas wants to kill because they do kill and they advocate jihad against Jews in their charter...

You use the words "Jew" and "Israel" interchangeably.

This might be a great propaganda tactic, but it denies any agency to Jews themselves.

I guess you think that you are qualified to decide that Jews and Israel are the same thing.
Are you a rabbi by any chance? Or are you just regurgitating the talking points of the current mainstream media?

[Sherlock Holmes]

The fanatical Zionists can't even sensibly define Jew, not in an objective way. Many people not regarded as Jews in Palestine are considered genetically closer to Jews originally from Palestine than say Jews from Ukraine.

The Israeli Law of Return regards a person as a Jew if their mother was a Jew, which is itself fraught with uncertainty, one's mother might have been Jewish but left no satisfactory evidence or might not have been Jewish but seems to have evidence they were.

Having an ideology that singles out an ethnicity when it can't even define it is clearly a joke, a pretend government and composed mostly of ideological fanatics.

No other country grants citizenship based on ethnicity, only the Jew Supremacist Zionist state.

[wat0n]

@Sherlock Holmes you really need to do some reading here, those laws are relatively common in Europe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_ ... _of_return

The rest of your post is just leftist racism (and ignorant of the genealogical studies on Jews).

[Unthinking Majority]

You use the words "Jew" and "Israel" interchangeably.

This might be a great propaganda tactic, but it denies any agency to Jews themselves.

I guess you think that you are qualified to decide that Jews and Israel are the same thing.
Are you a rabbi by any chance? Or are you just regurgitating the talking points of the current mainstream media?

Jewish is both an ethnicity and a religion. I don't really understand your point here. Hamas aren't trying to kill Muslim Arabs in Israel. In their Charter they specifically mention "Jews" that they wish to kill via jihad. On Oct 7 they weren't targeting and killing Indian Hindus.

Jews are indigenous to Israel (which was later renamed "Palestine" around 1000 AD after it was conquered by the settler colonial Muslim imperialists). Get with your fellow indigenous people.

If Canadian indigenous people wanted half of their tradition territory back if it were stolen from them through colonial warfare by settler imperialists would you support them? Would you called them dirty racist zionists? Or would you support the imperial settlers instead.

Canadian indigenous people have reserves they live on and govern and I highly doubt they would be open to many thousands of non-indigenous people moving onto their territory and becoming the majority. Are indigenous people "racist" for feeling this?

[Pants-of-dog]

https://www.iwgia.org/en/palestine.html

Indigenous Peoples in Palestine

The Indigenous Peoples of Palestine are the Bedouin Jahalin, al-Kaabneh, al-Azazmeh, al-Ramadin and al-Rshaida. Israel refrained from voting for the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, and Indigenous Peoples in Palestine live in a constant state of fear, caused by the demolition and confiscation of their property, as well as the restriction of their rights of circulation.

[Deutschmania]

The parallels are actually impressive.

Many British civilians were killed by US revolutionaries. Much like Israelis were killed by Hamas.

But far more US civilians were killed by British forces. Much like how far more Palestinians were killed by the IDF and Israeli government.

The US revolutionaries were portrayed as rebels, much like Hamas is portrayed as terrorists.

The US revolutionaries publicized British atrocities in order to galvanize support for their revolution. Hamas does the same in capitalizing on IDF atrocities.

And the US won that one, right?

In response to both you and @Sherlock Holmes , I would say that , to hear the Canadian education system tell it , the American rebels were comparable to the Viet Cong . It even caused a refugee crisis in the aftermath of the so called revolution against his majesty's government .

[wat0n]

In response to both you and @Sherlock Holmes , I would say that , to hear the Canadian education system tell it , the American rebels were comparable to the Viet Cong . It even caused a refugee crisis in the aftermath of the so called revolution against his majesty's government .

So how many British civilians did the Americans kill?

It's boring to ask the same question and get no response.

https://www.iwgia.org/en/palestine.html

No shit Sherlock, of course leftist racist NGOs will adopt leftist racism.

[Pants-of-dog]

It seems oddly important for defenders of this genocide to have the Zionists described as Indigenous.

[wat0n]

Not sure about what genocide you're referring to, even more so given the now manifest unreliability of the casualty figures.

But no, it is not particularly important. In fact, indigeneity is even dumber than usual in the context of the Levant given it has always been affected by major migratory flows, and not just from Africa. Case in point:

We report genome-wide DNA data for 73 individuals from five archaeological sites across the Bronze and Iron Ages Southern Levant. These individuals, who share the “Canaanite” material culture, can be modeled as descending from two sources: (1) earlier local Neolithic populations, and (2) populations related to the Chalcolithic Zagros or the Bronze Age Caucasus. The non-local contribution increased over time, as evinced by three outliers who can be modeled as descendants of recent migrants. We show evidence that different “Canaanite” groups genetically resemble each other more than other populations. We find that Levant-related modern populations typically have substantial ancestry coming from populations related to the Chalcolithic Zagros and the Bronze Age Southern Levant. These groups also harbor ancestry from sources we cannot fully model with the available data, highlighting the critical role of post-Bronze Age migrations into the region over the past 3000 years.

Yet for some reason only some of the descendants of the ancient Southern Levant populations get this indigeneity privilege, and - as usual when dealing with leftists and far-rightists - Jews invariably get the short end of the stick.

[Pants-of-dog]

Yes, it foes seem like the defenders of the genocide want to portray Zionists as Indigenous people because they (the genocide defenders) think Indigenous people have some “privilege” that will benefit Zionists.