[wat0n]

@wat0n

Deuteronomy or Samuel. '[Y]ou shall blot out the name of Amalek from under heaven. Do not forget!' doesn't help you.

The IDF is slaying 'both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'

Except that it's not. If it was, it wouldn't let Gazan civilians flee at all.

But more importantly, it is accepted in Jewish tradition that Amalekites no longer exist and that it's impossible to figure out who their descendants are. Instead, the reference to Amalek has been used to refer to antisemites in general.

And Netanyahu was indeed referring to Hamas, as one can read in his actual statement.

[Pants-of-dog]

The vagueness of Netanyahu’s words are not a counter argument.

You can only pretend he is not discussing killing Palestinians en masse if you deliberately ignore the verified and observed fact that the IDF are, as we speak, killing Palestinians en masse.

[wat0n]

The vagueness of Netanyahu’s words are not a counter argument.

Vagueness? He's quite explicitly referring to Hamas.

You can only pretend he is not discussing killing Palestinians en masse if you deliberately ignore the verified and observed fact that the IDF are, as we speak, killing Palestinians en masse.

Unless you ignore what his actual statements were.

[Pants-of-dog]

Vagueness? He's quite explicitly referring to Hamas.

Unless you ignore what his actual statements were.

He is talking about killing people, and his troops are killing people.

Obviously, his actual statements are not just a coincidence.

[wat0n]

He is talking about killing people, and his troops are killing people.

Obviously, his actual statements are not just a coincidence.

Yes, killing Hamas people.

You know, his actual statements being that.

Why are you seeking impunity for Hamas?

[Pants-of-dog]

@wat0n

The thousands of dead civilians are not Hamas. The mass grace at the hospital, for example, is filled with people who were patients at the hospital.

The IDF filled a mass grave on hospital grounds. To pretend these people were Hamas is incorrect and looks like war crime denial.

[wat0n]

@Pants-of-dog no, the civilians used as pawns were not. But the thousands of dead combatants were indeed part of Hamas and the other Palestinian armed groups that participated in the massacre you are seeking impunity for.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Pants-of-dog no, the civilians used as pawns were not.

So, you agree that the IDF is killing civilians en masse.

Consequently, when Israeli politicians are talking about killing people en masse, it ends up being civilian Palestinians.

But the thousands of dead combatants were indeed part of Hamas and the other Palestinian armed groups that participated in the massacre you are seeking impunity for.

The majority of the people killed by the IDF are women and children.

Are you claiming all these women and children are members of Hamas?

[wat0n]

So, you agree that the IDF is killing civilians en masse.

Consequently, when Israeli politicians are talking about killing people en masse, it ends up being civilian Palestinians.

German civilians were killed en masse in WWII by the Allies, are you saying this was genocidal?

The majority of the people killed by the IDF are women and children.

According to the Hamas-run health ministry, you mean.

Are you claiming all these women and children are members of Hamas?

No.

[KurtFF8]

I guess that's why Marxists went on and stood against Stalin's paranoia in the doctors' plot, which was totally not against the rootless cosmopolitans.

Likewise, they denounced Stalin's attempt to join the Axis... I am sure they did.

Correct, neither of these things are promoted or upheld by Marxists.

Even Marxist-Leninist will point to both of these as "Stalin's errors" or "Stalin's crimes"

[wat0n]

Correct, neither of these things are promoted or upheld by Marxists.

Even Marxist-Leninist will point to both of these as "Stalin's errors" or "Stalin's crimes"

Many wouldn't.

And they definitely didn't at the time, why deny the evident?

[KurtFF8]

Many wouldn't.

And they definitely didn't at the time, why deny the evident?

Many wouldn't? Source or is this just something you fabricated?

At this point I suspect you're just restoring to fabricating facts rather than engaging in a real point.

[wat0n]

Many wouldn't? Source or is this just something you fabricated?

At this point I suspect you're just restoring to fabricating facts rather than engaging in a real point.

Why do some Marxist-Leninists defend Stalin up to this day? And yes that includes defending purges like the doctors' plot.

[KurtFF8]

Why do some Marxist-Leninists defend Stalin up to this day? And yes that includes defending purges like the doctors' plot.

I'm not familiar with any Marxist-Leninist organization that defends the doctor's plot specifically. Can you point to any?

[wat0n]

I'm not familiar with any Marxist-Leninist organization that defends the doctor's plot specifically. Can you point to any?

There are no Marxist-Leninist organizations defending the doctors' plot now, but they definitely defended it at the time and until Khrushchev began repudiating Stalinism.

Can we use this standard in general?

Like, for example, why don't Marxist-Leninists demand the toppling of Stalin's statues in the same way they demand toppling statues of slaveowners?

[Pants-of-dog]

German civilians were killed en masse in WWII by the Allies, are you saying this was genocidal?

No, but that was a different context.

Israel benefits directly from ethnic cleansing of its occupied territories as it allows for an increase in its own claimed land.

And we see people from the Israeli government openly discussing the idea. And we see no negative consequences for the people who are advocating ethnic cleansing.

And the fact that the western powers committed war crimes but never held themselves accountable does not refute the possibility of Israeli atrocities.

According to the Hamas-run health ministry, you mean.

Sure. The UN, WHO, and other international organizations are also using these numbers.

And then you have to add the hospital patients who died because the IDF attacked the hospitals. Note the plural.

And the increased mortality from lack of access to medical care.

And the malnutrition and disease in the refugee camps.

The vast majority of the people dying from these indirect effects of the IDF attacks are non-combatants.

No.

Then you need to clarify your point.

[KurtFF8]

There are no Marxist-Leninist organizations defending the doctors' plot now,

Great, I'm glad this point has been cleared up and we can move on.

[wat0n]

No, but that was a different context.

Ah, there's "context" for genocide I see.

Israel benefits directly from ethnic cleansing of its occupied territories as it allows for an increase in its own claimed land.

And we see people from the Israeli government openly discussing the idea. And we see no negative consequences for the people who are advocating ethnic cleansing.

Yet Gaza isn't even being settled and Gallant is saying it won't be.

And the fact that the western powers committed war crimes but never held themselves accountable does not refute the possibility of Israeli atrocities.

Strategic bombings weren't war crimes at the time.

Sure. The UN, WHO, and other international organizations are also using these numbers.

So? Hamas has a history of "revising" these numbers, especially when it comes to admitting combatant deaths.

And then you have to add the hospital patients who died because the IDF attacked the hospitals. Note the plural.

And the increased mortality from lack of access to medical care.

And the malnutrition and disease in the refugee camps.

The vast majority of the people dying from these indirect effects of the IDF attacks are non-combatants.

How many people have died because of these?

Then you need to clarify your point.

The point is that the war is against Hamas, but since Hamas fights in urban areas civilians get caught in combat and get killed. Yes, that includes fighting from or in the proximity of hospitals, schools, mosques, etc.

Great, I'm glad this point has been cleared up and we can move on.

No, we can't move on. In particular, Stalin is still largely glorified in Marxist-Leninist circles (and I can see why, fighting the Nazis and becoming a superpower is no small feat). Yet these are the same guys who demand to topple statues of slave-owners, even those who weren't in favor of slavery or who had other accomplishments for their time. Why don't Marx or Stalin get the same treatment? Why don't they admit long-standing antisemitic practices in the USSR like the Jewish quota in universities and elaborate on what does it mean from an ideological point of view?

[KurtFF8]

No, we can't move on. In particular, Stalin is still largely glorified in Marxist-Leninist circles (and I can see why, fighting the Nazis and becoming a superpower is no small feat). Yet these are the same guys who demand to topple statues of slave-owners, even those who weren't in favor of slavery or who had other accomplishments for their time. Why don't Marx or Stalin get the same treatment? Why don't they admit long-standing antisemitic practices in the USSR like the Jewish quota in universities and elaborate on what does it mean from an ideological point of view?

You would have a point here if Stalin mostly fought an antisemitic crusade and that was the core of his ideology/rule. But it wasn't.

Again you're comparing two completely different things.

[Pants-of-dog]

Ah, there's "context" for genocide I see.

Since you have been claiming 5hat the Israeli attack on Gaza is not genocide because of contextual factors, you not only agree with me but also provide an ongoing narrative that relies on there being "context" for genocide.

Yet Gaza isn't even being settled and Gallant is saying it won't be.

According to the text you quoted before and my own research, his discussion of no civilian presence referred to government positions in Gaza.

If you interpret his words differently, please provide the exact quote that makes you think he is banning future settlements for the foreseeable future.

Strategic bombings weren't war crimes at the time.

Yes, that is the “context” that western powers provided in order to not be seen as committing war crimes.

So? Hamas has a history of "revising" these numbers, especially when it comes to admitting combatant deaths.

It does not logically follow that the numbers must be incorrect.

How many people have died because of these?

Far more than would have died had the IDF not bombed all the hospitals and most of the homes.

The point is that the war is against Hamas, but since Hamas fights in urban areas civilians get caught in combat and get killed. Yes, that includes fighting from or in the proximity of hospitals, schools, mosques, etc.

See how you are using context to argue that the IDF is not committing war crimes, genocide, and/or ethnic cleansing?

Tell me, do you think the IDF would be completely justified in bombing the bunker where the Israeli hostages are, killing the hostages and the Hamas members inside?