[SpecialOlympian]

Social Security Disability Insurance (duh, it's in the name) can be called insurance even though it's run through a benefits program because all working taxpayers pay into it through their paychecks. It's a shared risk pool, one every poster will hopefully never take advantage of, because every working person pays into it. It just so happens to cover people who may never be able to join the workforce.

SSI is more akin to an annuity. If you pay into it by working 20 years (or more accurately, 80 quarters) you are guaranteed a payout upon retirement. That payout is based on how much you earn (SSI is only taxed up to ~$250K in income per year, after which you do not pay any more) in taxable income subject to Social Security taxes.

But what would I know?

Wattam has learned Tsun Zu's most important tactic: Always attack the enemy where they are strongest.

[Unthinking Majority]

Yes, those unborn babies should have voted differently in 2006, very good.

Half of Gaza wasn't born when Hamas was elected, and half of those that were did not vote for Hamas.

They might want to write their relatives and neighbours who voted for them an angry letter.

[wat0n]

https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/disability/

Not a pension.

A pension (/ˈpɛnʃən/; from Latin pensiō 'payment') is a fund into which amounts are paid regularly during the individual's working career, and from which periodic payments are made to support the person's retirement from work.

Note I did not mention disability insurance at any moment, that's a straw man @SpecialOlympian made up. US social security however is definitely a pension as per the above definition.

@wat0n

I don't debate whether or not this holocaust is justified.

It isn't. There's no middle ground. There's no nuance. There's no "reasonable take". There's no argument.

Pat yourself on the back for working out a way to rationalize the murder of 1,000 children in three days. You're very smart. Good boy.

Should ISIS have kept massacring Yazidis because stopping them would have placed Iraqi and Syrian children and civilians in general at risk (and indeed, 8000+ civilians have been killed by air raids since Inherent Resolve began)?

The deaths of Gazan children, and civilians in general, are tragic and even more so since they live under Hamas' dictatorship. But this should not be an excuse for granting Hamas a "commit as many massacres as you want if we can't ever stop you in your tracks" card. This idea is abhorrent and of course Israel has the right to capture any Hamas operatives who participated, aided or abetted the October 7 massacre.

[Fasces]

of course Israel has the right to capture any Hamas operatives who participated, aided or abetted the October 7 massacre.

"Better that 1,000 children die than 1 Hamas go free."

-wat0n

[Fasces]

I'm sure whoever takes over the Gazan power vacuum after this, like ISIS in Iraq, will be better. I'm sure Israel will invest the billions necessary.

Onto the next generation. At least Israel is getting revenge, that's whats important.

[wat0n]

"Better that 1,000 children die than 1 Hamas go free."

-wat0n

Disingenuous, we know that there were thousands who participated. 1500 of them were killed in the attack, many more went back to Gaza.

I'm sure whoever takes over the Gazan power vacuum after this, like ISIS in Iraq, will be better. I'm sure Israel will invest the billions necessary.

Onto the next generation. At least Israel is getting revenge, that's whats important.

And this opens another question, what's Israel's exit strategy. Certainly it should aim to place Gaza into PA or international control.

Also, under your silly reasoning Japan should have been allowed to take over Asia and continued what it did in Nanking. After all, we gotta avoid spreading hate among the Japanese, shouldn't we?

In the end, all of this going in circles to say Hamas should be able to massacre hundreds with impunity. Why don't you just stop beating around the bush here?

[Fasces]

Hamas did a bad immoral thing.

Israel is doing a bad immoral and stupid thing.

At least Hamas 2.0 is going to meet it's fundraising and recruitment goals after this.

At some point someone will have to break the cycle of violence. Cheers to Israel for saying "Not me! Not today!", eh @wat0n ?

[wat0n]

Hamas did a bad immoral thing.

Israel is doing a bad immoral and stupid thing.

At least Hamas 2.0 is going to meet it's fundraising and recruitment goals after this.

At some point someone will have to break the cycle of violence. Cheers to Israel for saying "Not me! Not today!", eh @wat0n ?

Bullshit.

The cycle of violence between France and Germany was definitely broken after WWII, for example, and it wasn't broken by letting Nazi Germany take over Europe.

The cycle of violence between Japan and China, and also between Japan and Korea, was also broken after WWII and it wasn't by letting Japan take over Asia.

The cycle of violence between Israel and the Palestinians will be broken when both sides agree to a peace treaty, once the PLO is able to control Gaza.

I also find this rich coming from a CCP apologist, I don't see the CCP working on breaking the cycle of violence with their Uyghur and Tibetan minorities.

[SpecialOlympian]

Note I did not mention disability insurance at any moment, that's a straw man SpecialOlympian made up. US social security however is definitely a pension as per the above definition.

No it's not and nobody cares you dork. You went back to an argument we had like 8 months ago or something because you were floundering.

Now get back to excusing Israel's program of slow genocide.

I don't even bring up whether Social Security is a ~pension~ or an ~annuity~ when I talk to clients about their retirement planning. Because nobody gives a shit, except you, 8 months after the fact when you have to squirt ink like a scared squid to avoid talking about Israel's genocidal campaign against Gaza.

[Fasces]

Plenty of folks wanted Germany permanently de industrialized after ww2, and a peace that made the Treaty of Versailles seem pleasant. They didn't win, and the cycle of violence was eventually broken.

Let's see what Israel does, but they don't have a great track record. How many Palestineans were killed between January 1st and October 6th, in 2023?

In any case, everyone I have seen on here criticizing Israel has also criticized the violent Islamist regressive militia named Hamas. Why is the reverse so hard for you?

You're a guy on an internet forum, who has no hard decisions to make or justify. You're not running for reelection to the Israeli legislature. Why is it so hard, with zero cost, to say something the Geneva Conventions already say - indiscriminate bombings of civilian population centers is bad. Ethnic cleansing is bad. States that do this are doing a bad thing. This isn't a fight vs a good guy and a bad guy.

This is two organizations who don't know when to quit, who are addicted to retribution, who are violent for the sake of violence, and who have zero respect for life.

If there's ever a situation that calls for "both sides"ing, it's the IDF and Hamas and their favorite past time of wanton murder.

[wat0n]

No it's not and nobody cares you dork. You went back to an argument we had like 8 months ago or something because you were floundering.

Now get back to excusing Israel's program of slow genocide.

I don't even bring up whether Social Security is a ~pension~ or an ~annuity~ when I talk to clients about their retirement planning. Because nobody gives a shit, except you, 8 months after the fact when you have to squirt ink like a scared squid to avoid talking about Israel's genocidal campaign against Gaza.

You were the one who cosplayed as a financial advisor or some crap like that.

The only one advocating for massacring civilians here is you. You are the one who is happy justifying slitting the throats of infants, so leave your outrage at home.

@Fasces because I don't think the bombings are indiscriminate, there's plenty of footage showing Hamas and the other Gazan armed groups operate from residential areas and this includes launching attacks against Israeli civilians. I don't think it's "right" or "OK" for civilians to die, ultimately it's a failure by everyone (including Israel) the situation is what it is, but there's an obvious distinction to be made here and not all parties are equally responsible. Fatah for starters is far less responsible than Hamas and Israel since it's not even a belligerent.

A good chunk of Israel's problems are indeed of its own making, particularly those in recent years. Netanyahu's desperate attempts to avoid facing a corruption trial at all costs, to the point of affecting Israel's system of checks and balances, many Israelis voting for him and the far right regardless, and now this intel failure that was likely caused partly by Israeli political dysfunction.

But even leaving the latest years aside, the suicidal and immoral settlement enterprise - which has about zero chance of success, oppresses Palestinians in the West Bank and only serves to create tension - is a permanent thorn on Israel's side.

Israel should have signed an agreement with the PA, to at least end all controversies in the West Bank, and if not feasible it could have at least gotten rid of the settlements there. This notwithstanding, Hamas' rule over Gaza is still more damaging than anything Israel is doing since it has shown no willingness to discuss any sort of final agreement and Gazans are evidently unable to get rid of them on their own. It doesn't matter to them if Israel agrees to this or that with the PA, if it keeps settling the West Bank or not, or even if Israel decides to go back to the 1967 borders and take some refugees or not. If it did any or all of this, they'd just regard it as a sign of its collapse and dig down.

Had Israel signed that type of agreement, chances are we'd be more less where we are now. It's not like Hamas' patrons (Turkey, Qatar, Iran) would throw it under the bus just because the PA signed an agreement, there's no way they'd give up on having influence over what is the strongest Palestinian armed group.

Also, Germany wasn't deindustrialized after WWII yet it was most certainly forced to accept responsibility for everything the Nazis did.

[Fasces]

As much as you may want a rational discusion about the topic, it is superceded by the fact that your answer to "What should Israel do about Hamas?" comes down to "Whatever they want, it's Hamas' fault."

There's nothing to discuss, when that is where you are.

[wat0n]

As much as you may want a rational discusion about the topic, it is superceded by the fact that your answer to "What should Israel do about Hamas?" comes down to "Whatever they want, it's Hamas' fault."

There's nothing to discuss, when that is where you are.

Yet another straw man.

No, Israel shouldn't do "whatever it wants". I never said that.

Israel shouldn't just kill everything that moves in Gaza to get Hamas. Regular Gazans don't have a say on whatever Hamas does and I'm fully aware of that.

Yet this doesn't mean Israel shouldn't do anything at all either. How hard is this to understand?

[SpecialOlympian]

You were the one who cosplayed as a financial advisor or some crap like that.

Go lick your wounds.

The only one advocating for massacring civilians here is you.

I never said I supported the IDF.

This notwithstanding, Hamas' rule over Gaza is still more damaging than anything Israel is doing

Netanyahu gave material aide to Hamas to overthrow the Palestinian Authority.

Whoops! He probably shouldn't have done that, and should be tried and executed as a traitor.

[Rich]

Egypt is actually doing Israel a favour by blocking refugees from coming into Egypt, because they don't want the militants in their country either, or the war to spread there.

Always amusing to hear the Liberal framing of events. Oh dear. By "the militants" you mean Hamas, you mean Muslim Brotherhood, the same people that won the elections in Egypt when the Liberals made the mistake of allowing elections to take place in Egypt. As I've said before the Jews or Zionists if you prefer, have huge control over the media and foreign policy, but its not omnipotent. Its not total. The Zionists at the time, both on and off the forum made quite clear that they thought this experiment was a very bad idea.

The panic of the Latte Liberals during the election campaigns was a joy to behold, with them desperately hoping that the Salafists would save the day for them. Salafists! Anyway the Muslim Brotherhood won and the Liberals decided that they weren't so keen on democracy after all. So they then supported the old fascist regime retaking power in a coup. As I like to say, you just can't make this stuff up. Its like if the Allies had held elections in Italy in 1945, didn't like the result and had supported a fascist coup by Rudolfo Graziani.

[wat0n]

Go lick your wounds.

Go learn what a pension is.

I never said I supported the IDF.

No, you supported Hamas' massacre. Own up to your nonsense.

Netanyahu gave material aide to Hamas to overthrow the Palestinian Authority.

Whoops! He probably shouldn't have done that, and should be tried and executed as a traitor.

Lol no he didn't. Even when Hamas was founded (1980s) Netanyahu was still a relatively low rank politician, and Israel didn't fund Hamas. It didn't impede its operations either, given it started as an Islamic charity.

[Fasces]

I didn't say Israel shouldn't do nothing, @wat0n. I said what Israel is choosing to do is unjustifiable.

[SpecialOlympian]

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas: now it's blowing up in our faces

How Benjamin Netanyahu Empowered Hamas

[wat0n]

I didn't say Israel shouldn't do nothing, @wat0n. I said what Israel is choosing to do is unjustifiable.

How should Israel react?

[wat0n]

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas: now it's blowing up in our faces

Should Israel have just kept an even tighter blockade? I recall the complaints circa 2008 were that Israel's blockade was too tight, too inhumane. Now the criticism is that it let too many Gazans work in Israel.

Which one is it?