Saudi Arabia-Jamal Khashoggi - Western Hypocrisy - Page 11 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14955123
It's credible(yes he fought for his life, it was technically a fight), but one has to of cause wonder if the "fight" was an "OK Corral"/Bin-Laden setup murder...

We will never find out, sadly. Probably was. But there will be no evidence.
#14955132
[center-img]http://i67.tinypic.com/2im8krd.jpg[/center-img]

LUKE AIR FORCE BASE, Ariz. — President Donald Trump on Friday evening praised Saudi Arabia's statement acknowledging the death of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in its Istanbul consulate.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/ ... bia-918740
#14955159
It is astonishing how even the political savvy people on here fall so quickly for political propaganda.
You are missing the point. Yes, this appears to be totally against our sensibilities. So, does similar things never happen in China or Iran? Are the same people insisting we break all ties with China? I seem to recall reports of possible mass killings of Muslims in Western China. We seem to still want to trade with them.
This would have disappeared from the Western news in two days if it could not be used against Trump and Republicans in the upcoming election.
It is only a major story because it would be stupid of Trump to punish Saudi Arabia, so he is required to make it appear he does not care about human rights.
If you remove the self righteous devotion to human rights, then this is a Saudi internal affair the US has nothing to say about.
Please tell me why our trade should be based upon their internal behavior? The only answer is emotion, not reason.

Edit: This does not mean that I don’t think it is ridiculous for the US to sell weapons to anyone. We have armed our future enemies enough.
Edit 2: Should the rest of the world refused to trade with all of the US for some of the things that happened in Guantanamo?
#14955199
Istanbuller wrote:What response? Any seen Trump gave response to this murder?


Yes, he made threats which he has no intentions of carrying out, because that is his only safe option.
We are not discussing right and wrong. We are discussing political strategy.
If you think it is about right and wrong then you have fallen for propaganda.
#14955221
I can't understand why not selling weapons effects the majority of Americans.
It really effects the rich who own the weapons factories and the shareholders of the arms industry.


[center-img]http://i65.tinypic.com/rlkmyh.jpg[/center-img]
#14955224
This whole affair just highlights that the Western public isn't immune to bullshit if it is in their leaders interest to shovel it up to them. Even propaganda expert One Degree is shovelling up Trumps lies like flies on shit and gives mundane responses of irrelevance to support it.

As for the fall guy, it will likely be another political critic of the Saudi government that they want to get rid of. And Trump will say this is credible.
#14955228
B0ycey wrote:This whole affair just highlights that the Western public isn't immune to bullshit if it is in their leaders interest to shovel it up to them. Even propaganda expert One Degree is shovelling up Trumps lies like flies on shit and gives mundane responses of irrelevance to support it.

As for the fall guy, it will likely be another political critic of the Saudi government that they want to get rid of. And Trump will say this is credible.


:) So, even though you consider my comments mundane and irrelevant, could you still honor me with a response to just one question?
Should have our allies broken off trade with us for human rights violations in Guantanamo or does our self righteousness only apply to others?

Edit: The give away it was a political attack instead of serious concern is they immediately made it about Trump. It should have been what should our response be. That is how it is usually presented. The US United in response.
Last edited by One Degree on 20 Oct 2018 17:29, edited 1 time in total.
#14955232
One Degree wrote::) So, even though you consider my comments mundane and irrelevant, could you still honor me with a response to just one question?
Should have our allies broken off trade with us for human rights violations in Guantanamo or does our self righteousness only apply to others?


Why does punishment need to be single out to trade? The West need oil. But my response is the same. Bush along with Bin Salman should be sent to the Hague.
#14955235
B0ycey wrote:Why does punishment need to be single out to trade? The West need oil. But my response is the same. Bush along with Bin Salman should be sent to the Hague.


Okay, and this is how it usually works. Politicians discuss through the media ‘how should we respond. But that is not what they did. They immediately made it about what Trump will do. It is a trap making a decision between reason and emotion. That is why it is normally discussed as we and the US is united in our considered response. You do not throw one person in front of these difficult decisions alone.
#14955236
One Degree wrote:Okay, and this is how it usually works. Politicians discuss through the media ‘how should we respond. But that is not what they did. They immediately made it about what Trump will do. It is a trap making a decision between reason and emotion. That is why it is normally discussed as we and the US is united in our considered response. You do not throw one person in front of these difficult decisions alone.


Western allies are already making their own response to this without Trump One Degree. The are not attending Davos in the desert. All other responses of condemnation will be symbolic as they are an ally and we are dependent on their oil. But Trump doesn't use the same language as Mnuchin or any other Western leader. He is trying to make out there is innocence when clearly there isn't any. And for someone who is so apt in propaganda you sure fall for Trumps every single time he spins you a line.

The difference between West and East in terms of political manipulation is merely imaginary. Trump takes that manipulation to a whole new level. And Trumpists shovel it up and eat it for dinner.
#14955238
Ter wrote:One aspect bothers me a lot : the method of the murder.
Since when is a bullet to the back of the head not efficient enough ?

Saudi Arabia still chops people's hands off for theft. Their justice system seems like a crime to Westerners. So their crimes are going to seem particularly grisly too. Again, I don't understand why Jamal Khashoggi generates so much interest other than maybe he hung out with a bunch of establishment Democrats in DC.

Zagadka wrote:What is sad is that even this token resistance was prompted by a murder of one US-resident reporter, and not by the years of bombings and attacks, or anything else.

That's what makes it so weird. Besides, he was a reporter. It's not like fake news is held in high esteem these days. Reporters wanting sympathy for their own kind is one thing, but a school-boy chum of Osama bin Laden with ties to the Muslim Brotherhood seems like a bit of a stretch for a sympathy play.

One Degree wrote:Yes, this appears to be totally against our sensibilities. So, does similar things never happen in China or Iran? Are the same people insisting we break all ties with China? I seem to recall reports of possible mass killings of Muslims in Western China. We seem to still want to trade with them.

It is bizarre isn't it? There isn't a lot that's likeable about Jamal Khashoggi (or the rest of the press for that matter). We're supposed to cheer on ex-quarterbacks who lose 14 straight football games while protesting the national anthem and refuse lucrative NFL contracts looking for a greater payday to no avail and when they sign up to sell shoes made with Chinese child slave labor, we're supposed to applaud that as courageous. If the president puts tariffs on a power who disappears its political dissidents, were supposed to oppose the president. Yet, if a journalist who went to school with Osama bin Laden and has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood is critical of a medieval regime and gets killed by some actors within it, we're supposed to be upset? I'm still trying to understand why this one is so upsetting to the fake news.

One Degree wrote:This would have disappeared from the Western news in two days if it could not be used against Trump and Republicans in the upcoming election.

It's somewhat surprising it even makes the news. If Trump ordered him killed or something, that might be interesting. Yet, there is absolutely no evidence of this that I have heard.

Anyway, in view of all the other things the US tolerates, I find it odd that the media is so enamored of itself that it wants the rest of us to be too.
#14955243
Trumps supporters don't give a shit to what happened to a Saudi journalist in a Consulate in Turkey.
No doubt they don't know or care where Turkey, Saudia Arabia or Yemen is on the map.



[center-img]http://i68.tinypic.com/kbvx50.jpg[/center-img]
#14955252
The UK nearly doubled the value of arms sales to countries on the government’s list of human rights abusers in the past year, figures reveal.
Licences for arms deals worth some £1.5bn were approved in Whitehall in 2017, up from £820m a year earlier, according to figures compiled by the Campaign Against the Arms Trade (CAAT) pressure group.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 52101.html
FOREIGN Secretary Jeremy Hunt warned Saudi Arabia yesterday it faced "consequences" if its agents are found to have murdered dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Mr Hunt said the Government remains "extremely concerned" about the fate of the missing 59-year-old.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/10 ... rkey-trump
#14955268
blackjack21 wrote: I don't understand


And you never will but …………… Donald has been doing business with gangsters and crooks most of his life and has recently come out in favor of choking and body slamming reporters who ask unwanted questions. Perhaps news that his new BFF is a guy who cuts reporters into little pieces who ask unwanted questions is a bridge too far for some. Perhaps this incident solidifies what we already knew: worshiping at the alter of money is what Donald and, by association, America stand for. I know that worshiping at the alter of money is ok by you and Donald but there are still some in this life who think there are some things/values that are more important.
#14955273
Donald Trump is on Saudis said. He has been trying to cover things since beginning.

-Saudis denied all allegations. Trump supports Saudi response.

-Saudis claimed that the man left the consulate. Trump told that he spoke to Saudis and repeated what they told him.

-Saudis denied involment in disappearance and possible killing of man. Trump said that he believed Saudi authorities. He talk about "very very big" response to Saudis and "unknown" punishment to Saudis.

-Saudis admitted death of man inside the consulate and told it was a mistake. Trump told the press that Saudi explanation is creddible.

-What is next? Another "big big, large large punishment and bla bla"?

The United States and Trump administartion created this Saudi monster. You created this swamp. For this reason, it is up to you to clean this and reveal everything transparently.

So far, Erdıgan did everything. He made Saudis admit it.
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