[colliric]

I thought torture style executions were to send a message yet this was apparently supposed to be a secret assassination. Sickos for the sake of it I guess.

At least it’s another nail in the coffin for this “reformer kings” aspirations.

They obviously were going to dispose of the evidence, but got caught.

[anarchist23]

The relationship of the whore of Babylon and the tyrants of Saudia Arabia is pathetic to the nth degree.
This photo sums this up.
It would be comical except that many many thousands of innocent civilians have been killed in Yemen.

26 Jul 2018 · More than three years into Yemen's civil war, more than 16,000 civilians have been killed and ... The deaths are continuing unabated, with as many as hundreds of casualties per month, ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/


[center-img]http://i68.tinypic.com/8ywdty.jpg[/center-img]

[JohnRawls]

The relationship of the whore of Babylon and the tyrants of Saudia Arabia is pathetic to the nth degree.
This photo sums this up.
It would be comical except that many many thousands of innocent civilians have been killed in Yemen.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/


[center-img]http://i68.tinypic.com/8ywdty.jpg[/center-img]

Actually the political narrative regarding this and Skripal case are kinda funny.

1) Skripals -> OMG, fucking Putin ordered it himself and delivered the chemical agent right in to Skripals mouth. We showed you picture of 2 GRU agents nearby! Fucking sanction Russia to oblivion.

2) Khashoggi -> Meh, rogue opperatives did it. Nothing to do with Saudi leadership or the crown prince. Turkey definitely doesn't have any secret recordings how the guy was tortured and executed. Let us not attend 1 summit but no sanctions for gods sake.

And after this politicians ask themselfs why people like Trump get elected or why people don't trust the politicians. (I understand that Trump is playing the same game right now but there was hope at some point that he might be different in this regard also as he is different with trade/economy etc)

[One Degree]

I still think you should consider what you are actually outraged about. It was not that long ago that no one would have been surprised by this being done to someone considered a ‘traitor’. We are outraged because they have not changed as fast as we think they should. But this is their country. Should not the speed of change be up to them?
We should say “we think that is wrong”. We should not say we are going to punish you for refusing to believe as we do.
Everyone pretty well accepts the reasoning behind non interference as explained in Star Trek for example, but when we label it ‘human rights’ we give ourselves a pass for interfering. Our interference in the natural growth of different cultures has destroyed an extremely important experiment that could have shown us all a better way.
An experiment is pretty worthless if you contaminate all the options except one.

[Hindsite]

The Saudi government has already admitted that a murder has been committed by rogue elements and an attempt to cover it up was undertaken.
They just claim they need more time to interrogate the arrested suspects to get the truth out of them.

[jimjam]

to get the truth out of them

Anybody who depends on the Saudis, and Donald for that matter, for the truth is severely lacking in intelligence.

[One Degree]

Who knows the truth?
I do. I do. I do.
Then we must kill one another until the truth is proven.

[jimjam]

Who knows the truth?
I do. I do. I do.
Then we must kill one another until the truth is proven.

Lies abound everywhere as gutless wonders on all sides vie for power and money. Truth is absolutely what I do not expect from utterances whether they come from Mr. Bone Saw, Donald, Chuck Schumer or anyone in between. We are left to speculate by ourselves in our quest for truth.

and

What we are dealing with here is best described as a battle for turf between rival gangs. Whether it is the Crips against the Bloods, the Bonannos against the Gambinos, or the Turks against the Saudis, there are no "good guys" here. And our government is involved up to its neck, playing its own game for influence in the Mid-East.

and

I wonder how Jared Kushner's "peace plan" for the Middle East is coming along. I would imagine that peace will come to the region at any day now ……

[layman]

@JohnRawls what political narrative?

No reporting I have read implies any doubt it was the Saudi regime. Any man on the street will tell you the same. Unlike the Russian case which has masses of dissent from the western side.

Only western leaders official statements are closer to what you suggest but that’s just diplomatic protocol. One side is an ally and the other an enemy. Even so, I think European leaders condemned
This any Germany suspended arms etc.

So what do you mean?

[JohnRawls]

@JohnRawls what political narrative?

No reporting I have read implies any doubt it was the Saudi regime. Any man on the street will tell you the same. Unlike the Russian case which has masses of dissent from the western side.

Only western leaders official statements are closer to what you suggest but that’s just diplomatic protocol. One side is an ally and the other an enemy. Even so, I think European leaders condemned
This any Germany suspended arms etc.

So what do you mean?

Nobody suspended any trade yet nor are there any sanctions. Everyone hopes it will just die out and everyone will forget about it.

[One Degree]

The Republicans are doing the same thing they did in the Kavanaugh hearing. They are pretending to be receptive to ‘institutionalized positions’ such as women’s rights and human rights. It is not good strategy to fight such things head on. Western countries jump on the bandwagon for the same reason. No matter your position, your best bet is to appear to support such an entrenched concepts.
Trump is hated because he often refuses to play this game. He is periodically convinced to go along with it to appease establishment Republicans.
I doubt Trump gives a shit about this. His interests would be pragmatic not emotional.

Edit: I doubt any politician really cares what happened to this nobody journalist.

[anarchist23]

[center-img]http://i68.tinypic.com/eq9fld.jpg[/center-img]

[layman]

@JohnRawls yes of course though the media narrative is no more kind.

As I said before it’s key that the murdered is a non western person that was killed outside the west. If it had been a westerner killed on western soil the pressure would be much bigger to act.

[Hindsite]

Anybody who depends on the Saudis, and Donald for that matter, for the truth is severely lacking in intelligence.

Perhaps those that do not depend on the Saudis for help in getting to the truth of the matter are lacking common sense.

[Godstud]

@Hindsite Why would you trust someone to investigate their own crime? How could you possibly trust them? That makes as much "common sense" as letting a murderer investigate his own crime, and get to the "truth of the matter".

[Zagadka]

What honest people do is recuse themselves from a conflict of interest in an investigation.

[One Degree]

I am sure the US would turn over their embassy to another party and not do their own investigation. Lol
What country would? You have already reduced Saudi Arabia to less than an autonomous country so it is easier to villefy them. I am not defending them. I am attacking this monstrous tendency to ‘label, dehumanize, destroy’. No proof required.

Edit: Just think, the entire Western world had them convicted on Turkey’s word without a single piece of evidence actually presented. Why? Because it was a human rights accusation. Nothing more needed in an indoctrinated society.

[Hindsite]

@Hindsite Why would you trust someone to investigate their own crime? How could you possibly trust them? That makes as much "common sense" as letting a murderer investigate his own crime, and get to the "truth of the matter".

I believe in such a thing as due process, innocent until proven guilty. If the U.S. had a murder in one of our embassies, we would expect to investigate it ourselves to determine the guilty. Therefore, I believe it is common sense to allow the Saudis due process and the respect to investigate a murder within one of their own embassies. It does not mean we have to believe or trust their conclusions, if it does not make common sense.

[colliric]

@Hindsite Why would you trust someone to investigate their own crime? How could you possibly trust them? That makes as much "common sense" as letting a murderer investigate his own crime, and get to the "truth of the matter".

Unfortunately you have to. They are not going to let anyone else do it.

We have to see what they themselves find first.

[pugsville]

I still think you should consider what you are actually outraged about. It was not that long ago that no one would have been surprised by this being done to someone considered a ‘traitor’. We are outraged because they have not changed as fast as we think they should. But this is their country.

Err > No it was not their country.

Should not the speed of change be up to them? We should say “we think that is wrong”. We should not say we are going to punish you for refusing to believe as we do.

The Saudis know it's wrong. No one is saying Murder is acceptable. It's npt a matter of applying different standards. Murder is against the law in Saudi too. It;s not that Saudis are not believing as we do. They are breaking their own laws and morals.

Everyone pretty well accepts the reasoning behind non interference as explained in Star Trek for example, but when we label it ‘human rights’ we give ourselves a pass for interfering. Our interference in the natural growth of different cultures has destroyed an extremely important experiment that could have shown us all a better way.
An experiment is pretty worthless if you contaminate all the options except one.

Non Interfernce. Government murdering people in other countries. It's basic Rule of Law stuff.