[wat0n]

:lol:

I know, right? After all, how could someone be an antirracist yet at the same time stand by a regime doing stuff like banning minorities from using their own traditional language, which includes naming their children in that language, registering businesses in that languages and even banning singing in their own language in their weddings?

[skinster]

There's a Syrian War Thread if you ever want to debate anything on Syria there, coward.

[wat0n]

There's a Syrian War Thread if you ever want to debate anything on Syria there, coward.

This thread, which is about a specific incident in the US that has sparked protests and a general debate about racism, is just fine. It is also fine to question the supposed antirracism of those who use this as a political sledgehammer to smash things with. It seems it is you who's scared to address the point, snowflake.

[skinster]

Stuff about Syria are unrelated here. Why so scared though? I do wonder. You've mentioned it a number of times here as if you really care about the situation, but are then too scared to post in the Syrian War thread. I do wonder what that's about but I think "coward" in your own views pretty much nails it.

[wat0n]

@skinster you prefer cowardice, then. Good.

[skinster]

I even linked you to it, guy who uses Wikipedia as a news source.

[wat0n]

I even linked you to it, guy who uses Wikipedia as a news source.

Do you want me to cite from its source? This is yet another pre-Arab Spring account of the situation in Syria in that regard:

Discrimination – Kurds

Members of the Kurdish minority, who comprise up to 10 per cent of the population, continued to suffer from identity-based discrimination, including restrictions on the use of the Kurdish language and culture. Tens of thousands of Syrian Kurds remained effectively stateless and so were denied equal access to social and economic rights.

On 10 September, the authorities issued Legislative Decree No. 49. This further restricted housing and property rights in border areas, including the pre-dominantly Kurdish-populated north-east border areas.

[skinster]

[Pants-of-dog]

@wat0n

Since police unions are part of the culture if impunity, we should abolish those too.

And the evidence shows that bodycams do not necessarily have a significant and useful effect. Police still kill unarmed blacks while wearing bidycams, for example.

Elijah McCain’s killers were wearing them. In fact, the bodycam footage exonerated them. The PD involved in Breonna Taylor’s death is not releasing any, and no one is forcing them to.

[wat0n]

@wat0n

Since police unions are part of the culture if impunity, we should abolish those too.

How about the culture of impunity fostered by other public sector unions? Should they be abolished too?

Wouldn't it be just better to limit their power?

And the evidence shows that bodycams do not necessarily have a significant and useful effect. Police still kill unarmed blacks while wearing bidycams, for example.

But the evidence does show their introduction may help to limit those killings. Your argument is as usual a Nirvana Fallacy (seems to be your favorite one).

Elijah McCain’s killers were wearing them. In fact, the bodycam footage exonerated them.

So then the killing was justified under the law.

The PD involved in Breonna Taylor’s death is not releasing any, and no one is forcing them to.

They can be forced to by invoking the Freedom of Information Act, and they will be forced to in the context of a trial.

[skinster]

In case anyone wants to know whatever the fuck waton was talking about re: Syria, you can try to decipher it in the correct thread now. If you're into masochism, that is.

[wat0n]

In case anyone wants to know whatever the fuck waton was talking about re: Syria, you can try to decipher it in the correct thread now. If you're into masochism, that is.

[Pants-of-dog]

@wat0n

Your whataboutism is boring. You have already agreed that police unions protect murderers.

And the evidence also shows that bodycams may not help at all. I am not going to champion a dubious and insignificant reform when we need cops to stop killing people today.

And yes, the cops legally killed an unarmed black person who had committed no crime, was not resisting, Using the same bodycam footage that you claim would protect civilians, they declared themselves justified in murdering an innocent. This is the world you are arguing for: one where cops can kill innocents and walk away with impunity.

The FOiA does not matter when no one is asking for the footage. The DA and other prosecutors are just not doing anything at all. It is almost as if the whole system was rigged against people of colour.

[skinster]

[wat0n]

@wat0n

Your whataboutism is boring. You have already agreed that police unions protect murderers.

It's not whataboutism to oppose all impunity. It's just that you have a beef with the police and can't accept other public sector unions also engage in covering up misconduct of all types, hence why you advocate denying them the right to unionize while not doing so for nurses when their unions do the same. If police unions should be abolished for covering misconduct up then extend this measure to all unions doing the same.

And the evidence also shows that bodycams may not help at all. I am not going to champion a dubious and insignificant reform when we need cops to stop killing people today.

And yet the evidence suggesting they help may in fact be stronger. They also happen to be a relatively cheap intervention (compared to other options).

And yes, the cops legally killed an unarmed black person who had committed no crime, was not resisting, Using the same bodycam footage that you claim would protect civilians, they declared themselves justified in murdering an innocent. This is the world you are arguing for: one where cops can kill innocents and walk away with impunity.

Anecdotal evidence won't cut it, and if they were cleared it was for a reason. If Colorado law needs to change, then it's a matter of doing so.

The FOiA does not matter when no one is asking for the footage. The DA and other prosecutors are just not doing anything at all. It is almost as if the whole system was rigged against people of colour.

NGOs can also request the footage using the FOIA. Maybe and just maybe people are just giving time for due process to do its thing. But you obviously don't believe in pesky concepts like that.

[Pants-of-dog]

@wat0n

You are now pursuing your whataboutism and taking it into an ad hominem. You are not right simply because you accuse me of hypocrisy. I am right even if I do not attempt to virtue signal at your behest. If you really want me to take a moral stand against the evil nurses, I will say that I condemn all public sector unions that KNOWINGLY support a murderer.

As for the body cams, we have seen that statistical evidence supporting the claim (that they are a significant deterrent to brutality or racism) is weak. We have also seen that even with body cams, police will justify to themselves even the most egregious murder. And we have seen that body cam footage can and will be ignored.

Thank you for mentioning due process.

While you may accuse me of ignoring it, as some sort of personal attack, the fact is that the killers of George Floyd, Elijah McCain, and Breonna Taylor (just to name a very few) also ignored due process, but with the result of killing innocents. So even if your personal attack is true, you really should accuse police.

After all, when police ignore due process and get away with it, there is no difference between that and a police state.

Speaking of accountability (and lack thereof), why are DAs not charged when they refuse to prosecute cops?

[wat0n]

@wat0n

You are now pursuing your whataboutism and taking it into an ad hominem. You are not right simply because you accuse me of hypocrisy. I am right even if I do not attempt to virtue signal at your behest. If you really want me to take a moral stand against the evil nurses, I will say that I condemn all public sector unions that KNOWINGLY support a murderer.

So do you advocate abolishing all public sector unions who KNOWINGLY reach deals that cover up misconduct besides murder?

You tried to pull this virtue signaling card on me before, so it's fitting if the tables are turned against you.

As for the body cams, we have seen that statistical evidence supporting the claim (that they are a significant deterrent to brutality or racism) is weak.

Why?

We have also seen that even with body cams, police will justify to themselves even the most egregious murder.

I'm pretty sure that many caught killing another person on camera would do the same - cop or not. Even those who were in fact found guilty of murder do.

And we have seen that body cam footage can and will be ignored.

When that happens, there is also recourse against it. We can furthermore see such footage can also lead to murder convictions, so cherry-picking won't help your case.

Thank you for mentioning due process.

While you may accuse me of ignoring it, as some sort of personal attack, the fact is that the killers of George Floyd, Elijah McCain, and Breonna Taylor (just to name a very few) also ignored due process, but with the result of killing innocents. So even if your personal attack is true, you really should accuse police.

Indeed, and in those cases then the responsible cops need to be brought to justice and let it be served.

After all, when police ignore due process and get away with it, there is no difference between that and a police state.

Speaking of accountability (and lack thereof), why are DAs not charged when they refuse to prosecute cops?

I guess you would need to check on a case by case basis, but DAs can be subject to recall elections (e.g. in Minnesota) and similar forms of political punishment, which is what American law allows. If you believe it ought to be possible to prosecute them for nonfeasance I would like to learn a bit about the cons of adding that possibility. I could imagine them trying to indict people (cops included) despite lacking the necessary evidence to do so for the sake of avoiding lawsuits, for instance.

[skinster]

Weird how the protests are ongoing and they seem to be censored to some degree. Like I have to go to people's pages to see what's happening in particular cities, rather than seeing their news in my newsfeed, as was the case at the beginning. I guess they're doing what they did when the Yellow Vests protests were massive and ongoing every Sat for over a year, pretending they weren't happening.

[Saeko]

Weird how the protests are ongoing and they seem to be censored to some degree. Like I have to go to people's pages to see what's happening in particular cities, rather than seeing their news in my newsfeed, as was the case at the beginning. I guess they're doing what they did when the Yellow Vests protests were massive and ongoing every Sat for over a year, pretending they weren't happening.

Lots of videos of police brutality have been taken down on twitter.

[Hindsite]

George Floyd 2020 USA Riots / Protests
Jun 2, 2020

Black Lives Matter protesters and police clash again in London
Jun 7, 2020

Home Secretary Priti Patel has condemned Black Lives Matter demonstrators over violent protests outside Whitehall in London which saw 14 police officers injured during clashes.

The Left has tried to define deadly US riots as ‘peaceful’ protests
Jun 7, 2020

Sky News host Rita Panahi has warned people to take a stand against the Left’s definition of what constitutes a peaceful protest after widespread violence took place in rallies across the United States.

Black Lives Matter protesters in violent confrontations with Miami police
Jun 11, 2020