[wat0n]

@wat0n

1. Again, the idea is to significantly reduce police and the prison population, and to address crime by dealing with the root causes. Unless you think that dealing with the root causes of white collar crime is a bad idea, I have no idea what your argument is.

If the root causes of crime are not the same for white collar crime and inner-city neighborhoods, then what makes you believe that addressing the root causes of the latter will address the former?

2. It would explain the inaction on the part of Louisville municipal authorities. Is there any other reason you can think of for giving Ms. Taylor’s killers some paid vacations?

Maybe that the incident seems to be particularly confusing since the cops got shot?

[Pants-of-dog]

@wat0n

1. I never claimed that the root causes of (for example) tax evasion were the same as the root causes of (again, an example) gang violence in inner cities. In fact, I explicitly agreed that they were different the first time you mentione dthis, if I recall correctly.

2. So if cops get shot by a third party when they are killing an innocent person, it is a justified killing?

[wat0n]

@wat0n

1. I never claimed that the root causes of (for example) tax evasion were the same as the root causes of (again, an example) gang violence in inner cities. In fact, I explicitly agreed that they were different the first time you mentione dthis, if I recall correctly.

Then why would you want to give White collar criminals a get out of jail card?

2. So if cops get shot by a third party when they are killing an innocent person, it is a justified killing?

She simply got caught in the crossfire, didn't she? Or was she targeted by the cops? If the latter, then he should have been fired. But your own source suggests it's the former.

[Pants-of-dog]

@wat0n

1.

.....
Again, the idea is to significantly reduce police and the prison population, and to address crime by dealing with the root causes.
....

2. Who were the cops shooting at? Were they shooting at someone other than her?

[wat0n]

@wat0n

1.

Yes, and I'm asking you about the merits of that idea.

2. Who were the cops shooting at? Were they shooting at someone other than her?

Whoever was shooting them, unless you believe that the plot is thicker and they shot themselves.

[skinster]

Sometimes the news is good.

[Pants-of-dog]

@wat0n

1, Please explain why the current rate of incarceration in the USA is a good level.

2. Are you saying that you do not know who they were shooting at?

[wat0n]

@wat0n

1, Please explain why the current rate of incarceration in the USA is a good level.

Non-sequitur: It doesn't follow that it's necessary to decrease the penalty for crimes like tax evasion to decrease the incarceration rate, and it also doesn't follow that it's the best way to do so.

And to help decrease the incarceration rates, maybe softening drug law would help given that much of it is drug related (on the consumption rather than trafficking side).

2. Are you saying that you do not know who they were shooting at?

They were shooting at her boyfriend, who in turn shot at them first believing the cops were trespassers. I can imagine innocents getting caught in that sort of situation.

[Pants-of-dog]

@wat0n

1. Since we are using tax evasion as an example, it is odd to pretend that I am arguing that changing the penalties for that exact crime are the main thrust of my argument.

But yes, I also think the USA needs to legalise all recreational drugs.

2. Are you sure they were shooting at her boyfriend? Had he committed a crime?

[wat0n]

@wat0n

1. Since we are using tax evasion as an example, it is odd to pretend that I am arguing that changing the penalties for that exact crime are the main thrust of my argument.

But yes, I also think the USA needs to legalise all recreational drugs.

I provided tax evasion as an example why policing is necessary: Tax dodgers need to be arrested and jailed to enforce tax law, a process that involves policing.

Agreed on drugs. They have their own negative health consequences, but the costs of enforcing anti-drug laws seem to outweigh the benefits. I guess legalizing and taxing them to pay for treatment and Government-run drug dens would be a better policy if it helps to end gangs, thereby reducing or outright eliminating gang-related homicide and reducing or outright eliminating one obstacle for the development of the inner-city neighborhoods they tend to operate in.

2. Are you sure they were shooting at her boyfriend? Had he committed a crime?

They seem to have gotten the wrong intelligence. Should they go to jail for that?

[Oxymoron]

https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1282492374040666113

Sometimes the news is good.

The BLM racists deserve nothing better.

[skinster]

Stop pretending to care about racism, it contradicts your Zionism.

But yeah it was cool seeing someone defend themselves from a killer cop. More of that please.

[Oxymoron]

Stop pretending to care about racism, it contradicts your Zionism.

But yeah it was cool seeing someone defend themselves from a killer cop. More of that please.

I copied the wrong image, but you know the one I was referencing.. the guy who grabbed the cop in a headlock, well don't cry next time the Police
shoot.
Now as I explained before, simple fact is that as a Zionist I want to prevent ethnic cleansing of Jews... that is far from being a racist.

[Pants-of-dog]

@wat0n

1. Whether or not tax evaders, as a specific criminal class, have some sort of special characteristics that require jail is outside the scope of this discussion.

Again, the idea is to reduce policing and prisons as much as possible as quickly as possible. In that regards, legalising victimless activities and getting rid of jail time for non-violent offenses in general make sense.

2. Who were they shooting at?

3. If you are arguing that the police got the wrong information, how does that absolve them of the death of two innocent people? Why do Ms. Taylor’s killers get to walk free? If anyone else intentionally shot at and killed someone for incorrect reasons, they would still ho to jail for intentionally shooting and killing someone.

[wat0n]

@wat0n

1. Whether or not tax evaders, as a specific criminal class, have some sort of special characteristics that require jail is outside the scope of this discussion.

Again, the idea is to reduce policing and prisons as much as possible as quickly as possible. In that regards, legalising victimless activities and getting rid of jail time for non-violent offenses in general make sense.

Depends on the crime at hand. But there can quite obviously be plenty of non-violent crime that does harm third parties, and where jail time is warranted. Furthermore, I also agree that being a drug addict is a victimless "crime" and thus not worthy of sending people to jail - and a good chunk of incarcerated people are of that kind.

2. Who were they shooting at?

Her boyfriend IIRC, after he opened fire first thinking they were trespassers.

3. If you are arguing that the police got the wrong information, how does that absolve them of the death of two innocent people? Why do Ms. Taylor’s killers get to walk free? If anyone else intentionally shot at and killed someone for incorrect reasons, they would still ho to jail for intentionally shooting and killing someone.

They didn't know she was there, so intent would not be there. I don't think a manslaughter charge would hold either, since they were getting shot at.

[skinster]

I copied the wrong image, but you know the one I was referencing.. the guy who grabbed the cop in a headlock, well don't cry next time the Police shoot.

Because police brutality began as a response to this one guy who defended himself, yesterday.

Now as I explained before, simple fact is that as a Zionist I want to prevent ethnic cleansing of Jews... that is far from being a racist.

You living in America shows how you're not being ethnically-cleansed. Or even a serious Zionist. Stop fronting.

[Oxymoron]

Because police brutality began as a response to this one guy who defended himself, yesterday.



You living in America shows how you're not being ethnically-cleansed. Or even a serious Zionist. Stop fronting.

You are blind if you do not see the beginnings of the anti semitic fire that is building up thanks to the BLM Antifa and their supporters.
Add to that your determination to end Israel, you are advocating for genocide of the Jewish people. So I think you are fronting dear.

[skinster]

You're not being ethnically-cleansed, in the U.S. or in Palestine. And you're a pussy Zionist pretending to be ethnically-cleansed in the U.S. when you could put your money where your mouth is and move to Israel tomorrow. But as I said, pussy Zionist. Only words. You can't walk the walk. I'm sure it hurts you, knowing you're all talk, pretending to be ethnically-cleansed and pretending to be a Zionist, while living in America.

[Pants-of-dog]

@wat0n

1. I am not interested in a discussion about which non-violent crimes you feel deserve jail time.

This is a problem:


Unless you are arguing that things have gotten a lot worse in terms of crime since the mid 60s, this incarceration rate is troubling.

Especially when race is considered.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... ion-rates/

Fifty years after President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the 1964 Civil Rights Act into law, there still remains gaps between blacks and whites on many social and economic measures. Our Chart of the Week looks at one of them: the higher incarceration rates of black men compared with those of white men.

The above graphic from the Washington Post’s Wonkblog shows that black men in their prime working years, especially those without a high school diploma, are much more likely to be in jail than white men are.

While institutionalization rates rose for both blacks and whites from 1980 to 2000, it was especially sharp among the less educated black men – rising from 10% in 1980 for those ages 20 to 24 to 30% in 2000. In 2010, the institutionalization rate for this group dropped to 26%, but, as was the case in 2000, they were more likely to be institutionalized than they were to be employed (19% employment rate in 2010). Institutionalization and employment trends were similar, if not more dramatic, for black men with no high school diploma ages 25 to 29.

The chart is based on a study by University of Chicago economists Derek Neal and Armin Rick, who tabulated Census Long Form data from 1960 to 2000, and American Community Survey data from 2010. Neal and Rick’s study was in part a follow-up to a 1989 paper by James Smith of the RAND Corporation and Finis Welch of UCLA, which found substantial progress in closing the black-white gap in education, employment and earnings from 1940 to 1980.

But in the U. Chicago study, Neal and Rick concluded that progress on similar measures have sputtered since 1980, in part because of the disproportionately high incarceration rates. They noted, for example, that while employment rates for all men had declined since 1980, “these declines in employment and increases in incarceration have been much more dramatic among black men than white men.” The authors attributed part of this trend to the change in prison policies in the 1970s and 80s.

In 2010, all black men were six times as likely as all white men to be incarcerated in federal, state and local jails, according to a 2013 Pew Research Center study. We also found that black-white gaps in median household income and wealth had widened in recent decades, while gaps in high school completion and life expectancy had narrowed. In last year’s survey, fewer than half of all Americans (45%) said the country has made substantial progress toward racial equality, and 49% said “a lot more” remains to be done.

This all makes sense when we understand that prison labour is very cheap and private prison reap the profits. Basically, black men are put in prison where they are forced to work for low or non-existent wages under threat of violence from white overseers. It is literally modern slavery.

2. Are you sure they were firing at the boyfriend?

3. I am sure they did not intend to kill her specifically. Then again, Mr. Floyd’s killer may not have intended to kill Mr. Floyd, yet he is in jail. Thus, the killers of Ms. Taylor are not immediately absolved because of a lack of intent. And why exactly were they being shot at?

[wat0n]

@wat0n

1. I am not interested in a discussion about which non-violent crimes you feel deserve jail time.

This is a problem:


Unless you are arguing that things have gotten a lot worse in terms of crime since the mid 60s, this incarceration rate is troubling.

Especially when race is considered.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... ion-rates/

Fifty years after President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the 1964 Civil Rights Act into law, there still remains gaps between blacks and whites on many social and economic measures. Our Chart of the Week looks at one of them: the higher incarceration rates of black men compared with those of white men.

The above graphic from the Washington Post’s Wonkblog shows that black men in their prime working years, especially those without a high school diploma, are much more likely to be in jail than white men are.

While institutionalization rates rose for both blacks and whites from 1980 to 2000, it was especially sharp among the less educated black men – rising from 10% in 1980 for those ages 20 to 24 to 30% in 2000. In 2010, the institutionalization rate for this group dropped to 26%, but, as was the case in 2000, they were more likely to be institutionalized than they were to be employed (19% employment rate in 2010). Institutionalization and employment trends were similar, if not more dramatic, for black men with no high school diploma ages 25 to 29.

The chart is based on a study by University of Chicago economists Derek Neal and Armin Rick, who tabulated Census Long Form data from 1960 to 2000, and American Community Survey data from 2010. Neal and Rick’s study was in part a follow-up to a 1989 paper by James Smith of the RAND Corporation and Finis Welch of UCLA, which found substantial progress in closing the black-white gap in education, employment and earnings from 1940 to 1980.

But in the U. Chicago study, Neal and Rick concluded that progress on similar measures have sputtered since 1980, in part because of the disproportionately high incarceration rates. They noted, for example, that while employment rates for all men had declined since 1980, “these declines in employment and increases in incarceration have been much more dramatic among black men than white men.” The authors attributed part of this trend to the change in prison policies in the 1970s and 80s.

In 2010, all black men were six times as likely as all white men to be incarcerated in federal, state and local jails, according to a 2013 Pew Research Center study. We also found that black-white gaps in median household income and wealth had widened in recent decades, while gaps in high school completion and life expectancy had narrowed. In last year’s survey, fewer than half of all Americans (45%) said the country has made substantial progress toward racial equality, and 49% said “a lot more” remains to be done.

This all makes sense when we understand that prison labour is very cheap and private prison reap the profits. Basically, black men are put in prison where they are forced to work for low or non-existent wages under threat of violence from white overseers. It is literally modern slavery.

The conspiracy theories forum is below. And yes, the high incarceration rates are a problem, but they seem to have peaked.

2. Are you sure they were firing at the boyfriend?

They were firing at whoever was firing at them, that would be him.

3. I am sure they did not intend to kill her specifically. Then again, Mr. Floyd’s killer may not have intended to kill Mr. Floyd, yet he is in jail. Thus, the killers of Ms. Taylor are not immediately absolved because of a lack of intent. And why exactly were they being shot at?

You don't need intent to go to jail for killing someone, though. Manslaughter is also a crime.

And I already explained the rest.