[annatar1914]

As a Socialist you also mean to be against class society as it is by definition, so thus you're actually interested in the fall of the US republic and supposed to support Trump's destabilising efforts, so cognitive dissonance might rather be on your part while actually projecting to resolve it.


I wouldn't think Trump will be jailed, he's rather meant to get tired out and isolated socially and especially politically in his own bubble that is also supposed to shrink.

@Beren :

The closest secular political analogue to what I believe, aside from the socio economic aspect, is this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_ ... esentation.

But I believe that it has to come forth from an organic and natural development in time and place and other factors.

So I believe in stabilizing efforts, not destabilizing ones. Trump is an Oligarch same as Biden or Obama, feuding Oligarchs are a feature not a bug, feuding until one is left who runs everything and he or his heir becomes a hereditary monarch.

[Beren]

Trump is an Oligarch same as Biden or Obama

Are you sure? Maybe you should define oligarch then.

[annatar1914]

Are you sure? Maybe you should define oligarch then.

@Beren :

An Oligarchy is a small group of people who pretty much run everything in a particular society, usually with a corrupt fusion of business and governmental interests, and an Oligarchs personal confusion of their individual interests with the national interests. Oligarchs are members of that relatively small group.

[Beren]

An Oligarchy is a small group of people who pretty much run everything in a particular society, usually with a corrupt fusion of business and governmental interests, and an Oligarchs personal confusion of their individual interests with the national interests. Oligarchs are members of that relatively small group.

So oligarchs are just powerful people who "pretty much run everything" in their own interests, basically. How small is that group? How many people do you think are oligarchs in the US by your definition or in your view approximately? What kind of professions do they have? Are they only businessmen? Is a CIA director or a federal judge or a state governor or a city mayor an oligarch as well? I guess a US senator is, I see that presidents and former presidents can be.

[MistyTiger]

I wouldn't think Trump will be jailed, he's rather meant to get tired out and isolated socially and especially politically in his own bubble that is also supposed to shrink.

Trump is so disgustingly arrogant. He thinks that there will always be people who will follow him. It would be funny if Truth Social ever banned him. He is the type who never admits that he is wrong. He is a repeat offender, to use an American criminal law term. He does not believe that anything he does is ever wrong.

[annatar1914]

So oligarchs are just powerful people who "pretty much run everything" in their own interests, basically. How small is that group? How many people do you think are oligarchs in the US by your definition or in your view approximately? What kind of professions do they have? Are they only businessmen? Is a CIA director or a federal judge or a state governor or a city mayor an oligarch as well? I guess a US senator is, I see that presidents and former presidents can be.

@Beren :

If you have to ask, you might not be part of the solution, but at least an enabler of the problem. But we all are, in fact, in my belief.

Will to Power, almost all of us have it

[Beren]

If you have to ask

I have to ask because I'd have never expected Biden and Obama to get mentioned as oligarchs, so I wonder if what you actually mean by someone being a US oligarch. Not that I share the view that the US is an oligarchy, I'm just being curious.

[ingliz]

Not that I share the view that the US is an oligarchy

You are not alone.

According to Harvard sociologist Orlando Patterson, the US is a plutocracy.

[Beren]

You are not alone.

According to Harvard sociologist Orlando Patterson, the US is a plutocracy.

It's a plutocracy run through a republic some wannabe oligarchs mean to transform into an oligarchy - with some foreign help, of course.

[skinster]

Oligarchs are called philanthropists in the U.S.

[Wels]

You are not alone.
According to Harvard sociologist Orlando Patterson, the US is a plutocracy.

This is what the NSDAP and Hitler have said for some 12 years

[Deutschmania]

This is what the NSDAP and Hitler have said for some 12 years

They were correct in that regard. It still doesn't mean that I have to then accept it as a justification for the first world war, or believe in the notion of a " national spirit" , such as National Socialists, and even more so early German National Bolsheviks, such as Werner Sombart , and Paul Lensch , among others have espoused. Such a conception of things seeks only to replace the conflict between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat class with that of supposed proletarian nations versus plutocracies .

An Oligarchy is a small group of people who pretty much run everything in a particular society, usually with a corrupt fusion of business and governmental interests, and an Oligarchs personal confusion of their individual interests with the national interests. Oligarchs are members of that relatively small group.

What you have described is by definition , according to Marxist terminology, simply the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. Those on the left should welcome the eventual demise of such a corrupt hierarchical class society , even as we celebrate the collapse of the Roman Empire before it. It is nothing more than the dialectical nature of societal evolution throughout human history. Whenever there is conflict between some prominent political figure and the police power, we side with the fight, as Emerican Johnson put it, in this video on the subject.

[QatzelOk]

@Beren :

An Oligarchy is a small group of people who pretty much run everything in a particular society, usually with a corrupt fusion of business and governmental interests, and an Oligarchs personal confusion of their individual interests with the national interests. Oligarchs are members of that relatively small group.

Like the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, Bill Gates or Soros. All of these guys are oligarchs because they have enough money to buy politicians, propaganda events like revolutions, and the loyalty of the presstitutes.

North Americans live in sprawled out non-communities with overweight children... mostly because of Rockefeller money. What will Gates-Soros-Rothschild-Buffet money do to you now? What ways will your life be manipulated by the power of their money?

In all the Trump-versus-Biden B.S., you seem to be the only person to notice what low quality politics we have now that money has destroyed our democracy and we are headed for the dustbin of history.

I don't admire Beren's attempt to maintain social ignorance of the crimes of oligarchy. He is doing what the mass media does, and this kind of employment usually requires a pimp to pay the bills.

[Puffer Fish]

related thread: Jury says Trump has to pay $5 million to woman who accused him of rape

The accusations and outcome of the lawsuit were ridiculous.

[Godstud]

It's a civil lawsuit and if you disagree with it, no one cares. I am sure Trump can afford $5 million. He probably left that much in his pants when he got them dry-cleaned. $5 million might seem like a lot to normal people, but it's pocket change to Trump.

Also:

[annatar1914]

Thread bump.

I know that I've begotten some static for saying this before and it seems appropriate today before he goes to court in Miami, but President Trump only gets stronger with many people when they perceive that he's the victim of Lawfare.

And even more so when these people (his voters and perspective voters) come to believe that they are the the ultimate target of Trump's enemies, going through him to get to them.

Of course if this is true concerning some of his enemies there's nothing much further to say.

He has at this moment an excellent chance of being President again. It almost has an air of inevitability.

[Godstud]

@annatar1914 The reasons that Trump got elected in the first place are even stronger now. The average person is disaffected and feels as though the government isn't listening. When that happens people resort to "Fuck you" votes, and Trump is a "Fuck you" vote if there ever was one.

Biden has turned out to be less than "OK", and has done very little to help the average American. I cannot see them re-electing him.

[Rich]

This is what the NSDAP and Hitler have said for some 12 years

Hitler is a problem!

I think it would be helpful if we could accept that we have a massive intellectual problem with Adolph Hitler. The problem is that we never really talk about Adolph Hitler in any depth. He's constantly brought into the conversation, but when ever on attempts to engage in a sustained conversation, people get bored, it requires them to think too hard.

Contra to what people think I'm happy to go along with the mainstream establishment view that "Hitler was bad". I know people who would not go along with that proposition, but let me be absolutely clear on this. Not one of those people who have dissented from the mainstream view come from the far right, every one of them comes out of a hippy / traveler / new-age / anarchist / Green / Marxist tradition or sub culture. However I digress.

The fundamental issue is that agreeing that "Hitler was bad" gets you absolutely no where. Hitler existed for about a quarter century as a significant player in the historical time line. He existed in a particular country within that time line. That history will never be repeated not even close. Currently Hitler remains trapped within that time and place. We have absolutely no agreement about what made him bad. What actions or combinations of actions made him bad, who else was bad at the time. You see when you delve into it. a lot of people seem to hold to the view that pretty much all politicians are bad. Some hold to the view that pretty much all White people are bad. Delve into it and you find that some people seem to hold the view that all people are bad.

To summarise I would suggest we have three statements that the mainstream can agree on.

1 Germany after the first world war was in a unique position, even beyond the fact that every country is unique at each juncture in history.

2 In the second quarter of the twentieth century Adoplh Hitler was a politician in that unique country and rose to become its leader.

3 Hitler was bad.