- 11 Apr 2003 23:01
#7150
Spretsnatz,
I must say, your response was one of the most disingenuous pieces of gabbling nonsense I've read in a long time. In all seriousness... do you have some sort of a learning disability that makes you unable to keep track of when events occured?
You claim Vietnam was an illustration of the Soviet Air Defense in Depth Doctrine. The Battle of Bekka Valley (an air battle, not a ground battle as you incorrectly keep insisting) took place in 1982 whereas the air battle in Vietnam took place primarily in the late 60's. You are correct in stating that the SAM batteries were successful against the F-4 Phantoms. However, that war was NOT fought under the doctrine that came to be known as Air Defense in Depth. They used the older Soviet Continental Air Defense doctrine.
Vietnam did trigger both sides to re-evaluate their doctrines as it became clear to both that future wars need not immediately escalate to nuclear conflicts. The Soviets misinterpreted their success with the heavy concentrations of SAMs surrounding North Vietnamese cities and invisioned a very deep web of SAM batteries that, coupled with strict ground control of aircraft, would insure air supremecy over their lines. The US developed more modern jets with a greater thrust ratio for manuever, loosened fighter/bombers from strict ground control, and developed a series of missles that could suppress enemy radars or engage enemy fighters from any angle of attack.
Nobody -- except you apparently -- doubts that the Battle of Bekka Valley was the first test of these new doctrines on both sides. In three days the Isreali airforce wiped out all of the SAM batteries and shot the Syrian airforce out of the sky at minimum cost to themselves. In all engagements since American doctrine has trumped the old Soviet doctrine. Witness the ongoing war -- where the Iraqi airforce never even bothered flying, and for the most part the SAM batteries kept their radars turned off.
BTW, the land component of the Isreali move into South Lebanon is called, by people with even passing knowledge of the affair, Big Pine. The eventual withdrawl from Lebanon occured three years AFTER the air battle of Bekka Valley. I will of course by happy to suggest reading material so you can correct your very obvious deficiency of knowledge over those events.
I must say, your response was one of the most disingenuous pieces of gabbling nonsense I've read in a long time. In all seriousness... do you have some sort of a learning disability that makes you unable to keep track of when events occured?
You claim Vietnam was an illustration of the Soviet Air Defense in Depth Doctrine. The Battle of Bekka Valley (an air battle, not a ground battle as you incorrectly keep insisting) took place in 1982 whereas the air battle in Vietnam took place primarily in the late 60's. You are correct in stating that the SAM batteries were successful against the F-4 Phantoms. However, that war was NOT fought under the doctrine that came to be known as Air Defense in Depth. They used the older Soviet Continental Air Defense doctrine.
Vietnam did trigger both sides to re-evaluate their doctrines as it became clear to both that future wars need not immediately escalate to nuclear conflicts. The Soviets misinterpreted their success with the heavy concentrations of SAMs surrounding North Vietnamese cities and invisioned a very deep web of SAM batteries that, coupled with strict ground control of aircraft, would insure air supremecy over their lines. The US developed more modern jets with a greater thrust ratio for manuever, loosened fighter/bombers from strict ground control, and developed a series of missles that could suppress enemy radars or engage enemy fighters from any angle of attack.
Nobody -- except you apparently -- doubts that the Battle of Bekka Valley was the first test of these new doctrines on both sides. In three days the Isreali airforce wiped out all of the SAM batteries and shot the Syrian airforce out of the sky at minimum cost to themselves. In all engagements since American doctrine has trumped the old Soviet doctrine. Witness the ongoing war -- where the Iraqi airforce never even bothered flying, and for the most part the SAM batteries kept their radars turned off.
BTW, the land component of the Isreali move into South Lebanon is called, by people with even passing knowledge of the affair, Big Pine. The eventual withdrawl from Lebanon occured three years AFTER the air battle of Bekka Valley. I will of course by happy to suggest reading material so you can correct your very obvious deficiency of knowledge over those events.
Last edited by John Doe on 11 Apr 2003 23:28, edited 1 time in total.
Stop the oppression of Yak Lovers.
Lemarkian Fascism will not be tolerated!
Lemarkian Fascism will not be tolerated!
...Iraqi AF has been under 12 years of embargo...most of their aircraft can't even fly...the 5-6 aircraft that can even fly...won't fly becasue the US has several hundred aircraft there. What are you talking about??? A derelict air force that can't even fly...and you claim victory over them??? I guess you showed the Taliban AF with its 5 MiG-21s who was boss!! 
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- By litwin