[JohnRawls]

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[Beren]

The US has condemned Venezuela’s military after soldiers shot dead two people and injured 15 others trying to keep the country’s border with Brazil open for aid deliveries.

The White House warned in a statement: “Egregious violation of human rights by [President Nicolás] Maduro and those who are following his orders will not go unpunished.”

The US also urged the armed forces to allow humanitarian aid to pass peacefully into the country, the day before supporters of presidential challenger Juan Guaidó plan to challenge the authority of Caracas by trying to ship food and medical donations into the country.

JANUARY 18, 2019 / 1:13 AM / A MONTH AGO



“We will continue doing everything possible to re-establish order, democracy and freedom there,” Bolsonaro said in a video, in which he stood next to the head of the opposition-appointed Supreme Court in exile, Miguel Angel Martin.

“We asked the people of Venezuela to resist and have faith, because I believe a solution is coming soon,” Bolsonaro said in the video issued by his office.

[JohnRawls]

@Beren

They were US invaders... oh wait...

[Beren]

They were US invaders... oh wait...

The US government is orchestrating the whole thing, I'm sure Captain Bolsonaro is ready for action.

[JohnRawls]

The US government is orchestrating the whole thing, I'm sure Captain Bolsonaro is ready for action.

Yeah, captain Bolsonaro killed those civilians on the Venezuelan side of the border He is also the one starving Venezuelan people and refusing aid to go through.

Funny fact, after those people died and got shot, they were driven to Brasilian hospitals to get treated from Venezuela

[Beren]

Yeah, captain Bolsonaro killed those civilians on the Venezuelan side of the border

Maybe he hasn't killed anyone, yet.

[Heisenberg]

A couple of things:
1. The bridge that Maduro has allegedly "blocked" has never actually been opened.
2. Given that Elliott Abrams, the man in charge of US "aid" to Venezuela, has a history of smuggling arms to death squads under the guise of "foreign aid", the Venezuelans are justified in their scepticism that the US government has their best interests at heart. The fact that this "aid" is being flown in by military aircraft seems like a pretty big hint as to what America's intentions are here.
3. Anyone who thinks Jair Bolsonaro, a more-or-less open fascist, gives a damn about democracy and human rights in Venezuela is utterly deluded (or probably just lying).

You're beginning to make yourself look pretty ridiculous in this thread, @JohnRawls.

[JohnRawls]

A couple of things:
1. The bridge that Maduro has allegedly "blocked" has never actually been opened.
2. Given that Elliott Abrams, the man in charge of US "aid" to Venezuela, has a history of smuggling arms to death squads under the guise of "foreign aid", the Venezuelans are justified in their scepticism that the US government has their best interests at heart. The fact that this "aid" is being flown in by military aircraft seems like a pretty big hint as to what America's intentions are here.
3. Anyone who thinks Jair Bolsonaro, a more-or-less open fascist, gives a damn about democracy and human rights in Venezuela is utterly deluded (or probably just lying).

You're beginning to make yourself look pretty ridiculous in this thread, @JohnRawls.

Here you go, have some likes for defending Venezuela against US imperialist aggression. So trendy right now.

But what about the economic situation in Venezuela? What about the population of Venezuela loosing 12 Kilos of weight in the last 3 years? What about the suppression of democracy? What about the shortages? What about millions of migrants that are flooding the neighbouring countries?

Basically, when does a problem become so big that it starts hurting its neighbours also? It is obvious why literally almost all of Venezuelas neighbours do not like what is going on in Venezuela. They are exporting their problems to other countries. Other countries want that to stop. Colombia is not a very rich country, yet it has to accept millions of Venezuelans and feed them for some reason

Here are some live streams from the closed bridge and the area nearby. Do those people look like US imperialists to you:

[youtube]wBc8qpIUJyg[/youtube]

[Beren]

So the obvious solution is to throw Venezuela to the dogs like Bolsonaro.

You're a complete Fascist, @JohnRawls.

[JohnRawls]

So the obvious solution is to throw Venezuela to the dogs like Bolsonaro.

You're a complete Fascist, @JohnRawls.

I didn't say that Beren. But the current socialist government is not working. Guiado is also no Bolsonaro.

[Beren]

I didn't say that Beren. But the current socialist government is not working. Guiado is also no Bolsonaro.

I'm not sure if how long Guaido will be their man if Bolsonaro will be in charge of the operation, but maybe it doesn't matter anyway.

[Heisenberg]

Here you go, have some likes for defending Venezuela against US imperialist aggression. So trendy right now.

Someone's a bit salty.

But what about the economic situation in Venezuela?

I've addressed this repeatedly, and have made clear that I do not think Maduro and Chavez are blameless for the Venezuelan economy. That in itself does not justify foreign intervention, any more than the 2008 subprime mortgage crash would have justified Chinese military action in the US.

What about the population of Venezuela loosing 12 Kilos of weight in the last 3 years?

The US hasn't even said what is in the "aid" packages it has parked on the border. Note that the International Red Cross has said it wants nothing to do with it, deeming it a political stunt. Since it's allegedly worth about $20m in total, it will do sweet fuck all to solve food shortages in Venezuela, and is explicitly intended as a provocation.

What about the suppression of democracy?

Do you think Bolsonaro - who speaks fondly of Brazil's military regime - and Abrams - who is an unrepentant war criminal notorious for funding death squads in El Salvador and Nicaragua - are really concerned with democracy?

But anyway - I've addressed this. I think Maduro is seriously flawed and corrupt. It is not enough to justify a transparent coup. I mean, for crying out loud, John Bolton went on Fox News a couple of weeks ago and explicitly said the US wants Venezuela's oil.

Here are some live streams from the closed bridge and the area nearby. Do those people look like US imperialists to you:

No, but Iraq, Libya, and Syria have taught me to be sceptical of atrocity propaganda and lachrymose appeals from regime-change fanatics. I wonder when we'll begin to hear stories about Maduro handing out viagra to his soldiers to rape people fleeing the country.

[Beren]

I wonder if this helped a lot, although there is hardly any white person behind him and even he is orange.

Bolsonaro saying they will continue doing everything possible to re-establish order, democracy and freedom in Venezuela also must be appealing. It recalls Hitler being so concerned about Germans in Czechoslovakia and Poland and then rushing to their rescue. I'm sure he'd have some ideas as to how to deal with the defeated.

[Rugoz]

Bolsonaro vs. Maduro is a match made in heaven.

[redcarpet]

I've addressed this repeatedly, and have made clear that I do not think Maduro and Chavez are blameless for the Venezuelan economy. That in itself does not justify foreign intervention, any more than the 2008 subprime mortgage crash would have justified Chinese military action in the US.

Drop the strawman arguments. for god's sake! Opposing dictatorship in Venezuala doesn't mean you support a foreign-coup, etc. That's a total strawman argument.

[JohnRawls]

Drop the strawman arguments. for god's sake! Opposing dictatorship in Venezuala doesn't mean you support a foreign-coup, etc. That's a total strawman argument.

But that is so trendy, they can't. Supporting Guiado = supporting US intervention because there is no way the situation is bad and people are legitimately displeased.

[Beren]

But that is so trendy, they can't. Supporting Guiado = supporting US intervention because there is no way the situation is bad and people are legitimately displeased.

What the hell are you talking about?

I wonder if Guaido has any say anymore as to whether what's going to happen. Maybe they think Operation Guaido has failed.

[Heisenberg]

Drop the strawman arguments. for god's sake! Opposing dictatorship in Venezuala doesn't mean you support a foreign-coup, etc. That's a total strawman argument.

It's funny - I said exactly the same thing earlier in this thread. It was one of my very first posts, in fact. I'm not making any "strawman" arguments, and I am on record repeatedly being very disobliging about El Presidente in this very thread.

However, JohnRawls is vocally supporting foreign intervention. Can you read? What else would you call the US sending military aircraft to the border, or the actions of the Brazilian and Colombian governments?

As for the comical idea that support for Guaido - a transparent and, actually, proud US puppet - can somehow be divorced from support for US intervention, come off it.

[Red_Army]

Supporting a nobody puppet like Guiado is obviously supporting US intervention. I was pretty bummed that Bernie started parroting neocon bullshit today. His foreign policy platform keeps getting shittier.

[JohnRawls]

Supporting a nobody puppet like Guiado is obviously supporting US intervention. I was pretty bummed that Bernie started parroting neocon bullshit today. His foreign policy platform keeps getting shittier.

Wow, supporting anybody that is anti-US is an obligation of any proper person? What if the pro-US candidate is better than the anti-US one?