mikema63 wrote:I strongly disagree but I just don't know how to express to you in a way you'd comprehend that small fundamentalist sections of a population being shit doesn't mean you are at war with all Islam everywhere. That attitude increased radicalization and makes them more powerful.
Well said. If you find a magic way to make some fools comprehend, let me know.
Frollein wrote: Then there's of course the thing with the Book itself spouting an intolerant ideology bent on expansion and subjugation/eradication of all non-followers.
Well, if my memory serves me well, Hungary remained under Muslim Turkish rule for ~200 years, Greece 400+ years, Serbia 450+ years, Bulgaria 500+ years, and last time I looked, They were still overwhelmingly Christian countries.
It is kind of ironic that you come with a generic sentence like "intolerant ideology bent on expansion and subjugation/eradication of all non-followers", because "golden standard" of what you describe is what your forefathers did to Polish unbelievers (Jews) by eradicating virtually all 3.5 million of them in few years.
Frollein wrote:Gee, and here I thought "moderate Muslims" not making a peep is what makes the radicals ever more powerful.
and
The Sabbaticus wrote:2. 'Sudden Jihadist'-syndrome suffering 'moderate' Muslims constantly complaining about being victims, despite everything handed to them on a silver platter.
I think as a moderate Muslim I should respond. And I will do it at length.
When 9/11 attacks happened, I was a college student back in Turkey. I vividly remember how sad we felt, how my mom cried after seeing people jumping from WTC, etc, but it does not matter, it should be a lie since we are Muslim, we don't have hearts, we cannot feel the pain of others.
A day or two later, I heard two names first time in my life. "Al-Qaeda" and "Osama bin Laden". Perhaps a month later, we learned a lot about this Osama and his organization, news were out there about American collaboration with bin Laden in Afghan war, how Al-Qaeda was created, how it was financed, how it gained strength and how American and Saudi governments were instrumental in these affairs.
But it does not matter, we moderate Muslims were guilty because we did not fight alongside communist Soviet invaders against those Afghan Jihadists and their American pay masters.
Then we saw the pictures of 9/11 attackers. Most, if not all, were Saudi nationals. And it was all known that Salafist/Wahhabist countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait were the nests where those terrorist vipers are spawn and nurtured from. Yet, American administration alongside UK and others decided invade Iraq, the most secular Arab country on the planet, to deal with Salafist terrorism.
But it does not matter, we moderate Muslims were guilty as we did not have any political power within the American government to stop them declaring war against Iraq.
Iraq was invaded, it's dictator was removed, and its secular and unitarian state apparatus was dismantled brick by brick till it become nothing. In its place, a new and loose state structure was created based along ethnic and sectarian lines. In this new system, Sunni minority was quickly disfranchised and alienated. A civil war followed, which caused further loosening of already loose state authority. In this vacuum and climate of hostility towards central government, al-Qaeda found an opportunity to enter into Iraq first time in the history.
But it does not matter, we moderate Muslims were guilty, because we did not have any military might to stand against invasion and to stop USA and UK turning Iraq into a terrorist haven.
Then we heard that al Qaeda in Iraq became ISIS, don’t know how, but quickly took control of large portions of both Iraq and Syria in a shock-and-awe fashion by terrorizing, massacring and displacing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Muslims. Before we ask wtf is ISIS, they declare their dominion is Islamic caliphate to add insult to our injury. Of course their financiers were from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar. Of course, western weapons sent to support Syrian opposition were somehow ending up in ISIS inventory.
But it does not matter, regardless of being massacred en masse in the hands of ISIS, we moderate Muslims are guilty by association with our murderers.
And today’s London attack. I don’t know anything about the details. Yet I can confidently bet those attackers will be somehow associated with a mosque or group of people related to Saudi/Kuwait/Qatari money. They will be definitely adherents of Salafism/Wahhabism, which is official Islamic ideologies of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar. And British government will definitely do nothing to curb their influence in UK because of two reasons.
1- West is too damn addicted to their petrodollars to finance west’s perpetual deficits.
2- Why to lose an excuse to funnel billions and trillions of taxpayers’ money into “Military-Industrial Complex”.
In other words, we moderate Muslims are still guilty, because guilt which is attributed to us, is instrumental in transferring billions if not trillions of dollars of wealth from Persian Gulf to the West, from taxpayers purses into pockets of those profiting from “Military-Industrial Complex”.
And as a generous moderate Muslim, I can live with all these guilt attributed on me. It is in human nature that some people (generally low IQ, or lowly educated, or ideologically poisoned people) blame other people for irrelevant reasons all the time. Being on the receiving end of these blames is sad, but it is not the end of the world.
Yet, if you are looking for an apology from me, then my response is short: Go f**k yourselves. I don't have the habit of apologizing for things that I have nothing to do with.
- By Deutschmania
- By JohnRawls
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