[skinster]

Yes, some Palestinians have white skin. I don't know why that upsets you but I guess it's easier to kill them if they're brown?

Also, thanks for admitting you think it's fine for Israeli snipers from the other side of Gaza's prison walls, to murder its prisoners for protesting their living conditions. You usually pretend to be all liberaly zion-y, it's nice to see the real you.

[danholo]

It upsets me that some Palestinians have light skin? Wow, you really misunderstood my post, nor did you get the humor. Just wow.
---
As a question towards others, how did you construe the contents of my post? I just want to know if what I'm trying to convey is just hard to understand or is the reader just incapable of understanding me? Constructive criticism is welcome.

[skinster]

[danholo]

Ah, Sweden, ever the moralist, the place where you can't think differently... I was just there and going back in a few weeks. Girls...

Anyway, maybe Sweden should take care of its own 'ghettos' first.

[skinster]

The Gaza blockade is illegal– and so is the use of force to maintain it
Human Rights Watch (HRW) is among the leading guardians of human rights in the world. Sari Bashi is HRW’s Israel/Palestine Advocacy Director. She can lay claim to an impressive academic pedigree (BA, Yale; JD, Yale), and she co-founded the important Israeli human rights group Gisha. It thus cannot but depress that Bashi is so wanting in elementary moral and legal judgment when it comes to the people of Gaza.

Shortly after the Israeli massacre in Gaza on 14 May 2018, Bashi posted a commentary under the title, “Don’t Blame Hamas for the Gaza Bloodshed.”
​Its essence is captured in the opening sentence: “Israel has a right to defend its borders, but shooting unarmed protesters who haven’t breached its frontier is disproportionate and illegal.” Insofar as the demonstrators didn’t pose an “imminent threat to life,” Bashi concludes, Israel had no right to use lethal force against them and, in any event, did not “exhaust” nonlethal means “such as tear gas, skunk water, and rubber-coated steel pellets” to throw back the assembled crowd.

The UN has pronounced Gaza unlivable, while Sara Roy of Harvard’s Center for Middle Eastern Studies has written, “Innocent people, most of them young, are slowly being poisoned by the water they drink.” Is it not a tad unseemly, not to say unsettling, for the representative of a respected human rights organization to coach Israel how to stay within the letter of the law—before resorting to bullets, you must first try “tear gas, skunk water, and rubber-coated steel pellets”—while it’s herding two million people, half of them children, in an unlivable space in which they are slowly being poisoned?

To be sure, Bashi is not oblivious to the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza caused by Israel’s blockade. But she makes out no legal nexus between the effects of the siege and Israel’s right to use force. Instead, she dwells on the apparently paradoxical outcome that whereas Israel imposed the blockade to weaken Hamas, it has in fact “helped Hamas grow in strength.”

But the siege is not irrelevant to a legal determination of Israel’s right to use force—be it proportionate or disproportionate, moderate or excessive, lethal or nonlethal—to prevent demonstrators from breaching Gaza’s perimeter fence. For brevity’s sake, I would want to touch here on one basic, uncontroversial point. (A forthcoming article by Jamie Stern-Weiner and this writer parses the more nuanced legal issues.)

It is a tenet of international law that no state can resort to forceful measures unless “peaceful means” have been exhausted (UN Charter, Article 2). This principle is as sacred to the rule of law as the analogous Hippocratic Oath, primum non nocere (first, do no harm), is to medicine. Now consider the situation in Gaza. Nearly all competent observers agree:

· Israel has imposed an illegal blockade on Gaza;

· The illegal blockade has created a humanitarian catastrophe;

· The impetus behind the protests at the perimeter fence is the illegal blockade, and their objective is to end it.

It is to be noted that even Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu concedes the last bullet point. “They’re suffocating economically,” he observed, “and therefore they decided to crash into the fence.”

If Israel wants to protect its border, then it need not resort to either lethal or nonlethal coercion. It merely has to lift the siege. Israel’s refusal to take this preliminary peaceful step puts it in double breach of international law: the imposition of an illegal blockade and the unlawful resort to armed force when peaceful means have not been exhausted.

It is cause for wonder why Bashi doesn’t see that Israel’s resort to any force against Gaza demonstrators cannot be legally justified. It is cause for dismay that she counsels Israel to use nonlethal repression in order to corral Gaza’s inhabitants in a hellhole, instead of counseling it, not just as a matter of political expedience but also as a matter of law, to end the siege. If, by way of comparison, police repeatedly enter a man’s premises in flagrant violation of the law, the homeowner finally resists, and the police try to subdue him, would a human rights representative be advising the officers to use graduated force?

​Indeed, prior to Israel’s slated violent eviction/demolition of the Bedouin village Khan al-Amar in the West Bank, HRW itself did not recommend that the army first use “tear gas, skunk water, and rubber-coated steel pellets” but, on the contrary, bluntly warned Israel that such an act would constitute a “war crime.”

Were the siege of Gaza lifted, it would put Israel on the right side of the law as it yielded the double dividend of enabling the people of Gaza to breathe and terminating the purported threat to Israel’s border. In other words, it would render all talk of force superfluous.
http://mondoweiss.net/2018/07/blockade- ... -maintain/

[danholo]

That article goes through hoops to prove a point.

It is a tenet of international law that no state can resort to forceful measures unless “peaceful means” have been exhausted (UN Charter, Article 2). This principle is as sacred to the rule of law as the analogous Hippocratic Oath, primum non nocere (first, do no harm), is to medicine. Now consider the situation in Gaza. Nearly all competent observers agree:

· Israel has imposed an illegal blockade on Gaza;

It's fact, because other people agree with me.

[skinster]

It's a fact because Dr Norman Finkelstein, who wrote that article, is a "forensic" scholar and, to date, has never been proven wrong on anything he's wrote, despite zionist's attempting to project their lies upon him. Go ahead, prove him wrong if you can, prove the occupation and blockade of Palestinians in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza are legal. You claimed the same in the other thread, but were unable to respond when I asked you to show me which laws support the crimes of occupation and blockade. I'm still waiting...

[skinster]

[skinster]

[Zamuel]

*97% of Gaza's water is undrinkable.
*51% of Gaza's children are anemic.
*52% of Gaza's 2 million population are under 18, & faced with 60% unemployment.
*Gaza's health sector has collapsed under weight of Israel's power cuts and bombardment.

Sounds like Puerto Rico …

Zam

[Suntzu]

https://twitter.com/cjwerleman/status/1016755556281806850

Given those conditions, one would think they would stop breeding like rabbits.

[colliric]

Given those conditions, one would think they would stop breeding like rabbits.

When you're under pressure for survival, you end up breeding more, not less. God(or whatever you believe decides such things) made the human race the "Fittest" in "survival of the fittest". When we feel threatened we breed in greater numbers!

That's why the birth rate in first world countries is shit compared to third world places.

If the Jews really wanted to crush Gaza and have the Palestinians die out, they would turn Gaza into the richest place on earth and H. G. Welles Eloi the shit out of the Palestinians.

Instead Israeli's(except the Ultra-Orthodox who feel feel they are also fighting for survival, ironically usually against "the Zionists watering our religion down", therefore breeding like rabbits too) are the Eloi and the Palestinians are the Morlocks....

[noir]

@colliric, nothing to to with "survival", it's a strategy to destroy Israel. The root cause is UNRWA, that provide them everything for free to fight their demographic jihad

[colliric]

@colliric, nothing to to with "survival", it's a strategy to destroy Israel. The root cause is UNRWA, that provide them verything for free to fight their demographic jihad

Actually yes it is. The Palestinians clearly believe they will inevitably be invaded by Israel and clearly act as if they feel it's a life or death, us or them, situation. Also your statement makes sense mostly from that point of view anyway. These people clearly believe Israel intends to one day invade and take the entire land. To most of them it has clearly become "Us or them" at this point.

Yes I agree they hope to destroy Israel, but they clearly believe they are doing it in "self defence because they want to destroy Palestine in return".

Both of you are in the wrong. And the Hasidics/Haredi are multiplying like rabbits in return on the other side of the fence.

[noir]

Hasidic again. Nevermind

[danholo]

Actually yes it is. The Palestinians clearly believe they will inevitably be invaded by Israel and clearly act as if they feel it's a life or death, us or them, situation. Also your statement makes sense mostly from that point of view anyway. These people clearly believe Israel intends to one day invade and take the entire land. To most of them it has clearly become "Us or them" at this point.

Yes I agree they hope to destroy Israel, but they clearly believe they are doing it in "self defence because they want to destroy Palestine in return".

BINGO. It's the mistrust and fairy tales that keep the conflict going - while the rational people are in the crossfire.

Personally I find Israel to be the more rational party here and so, they've just taken the pragmatic approach.

[skinster]

The Palestinians clearly believe they will inevitably be invaded by Israel and clearly act as if they feel it's a life or death, us or them, situation.

The Palestinians are already invaded, Israel controls all of the land that was meant to be a Palestinian state; the West Bank and East Jerusalem are under a military occupation and Gaza is under the same, but with an added economic blockade, which is slowly killing them, in-between the times Israelis kill Gazans much quicker in their thousands, with their fighter jets and tanks and bullets and chemical weapons etc.

These people clearly believe Israel intends to one day invade and take the entire land.

Israel's plan is to take the entire land. They currently control it all, but are yet to cleanse it of the natives. Israeli ethnic cleansing from this week:

To most of them it has clearly become "Us or them" at this point.

That's a naive way of talking about the oppressor (Israel) and the oppressed (Palestinians). There are no two equal sides here. There is a settler-colonial state imposing a military occupation and apartheid on over 6/7 million of its subjects...and the Palestinians are fighting for survival under this brutal regime.

Both of you are in the wrong.

Except only one side is doing all the killing and the other side is doing all the dying. But okay, "both are in the wrong".

[danholo]

Except only one side is doing all the killing and the other side is doing all the dying. But okay, "both are in the wrong".

"All the killing and all the dying." Thousands of Israelis have been killed by Palestinians. Don't blame Israel for Palestinians' incompetence that they haven't succeeded in killing more; it's not like they haven't tried.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/isr ... -1.5629494

When reality actually becomes what you believe, come back, because then your argument will be factually valid.

That's a naive way of talking about the oppressor (Israel) and the oppressed (Palestinians). There are no two equal sides here. There is a settler-colonial state imposing a military occupation and apartheid on over 6/7 million of its subjects...and the Palestinians are fighting for survival under this brutal regime.

This is also a very naive position to take. This has nothing to do with being equal, but doing the right thing and at this point, both parties are doing neither. Palestinians have plenty of power to improve their own situation within their territories yet they don't. There is plenty of wealth and prosperity there. Saying that they are fighting for survival has nothing to do with reality. The matter of survival is just an illusion and a lie to keep on bashing Israel while they should just stand up and take matters into their own hands, admit that they are also wrong for wanting Israel gone and stop insisting that killing Israelis is the right path forward.

When this happens, we can do business. Until then; more dead Palestinians and more loss of land. Every attempt the Palestinians make to hurt Israel, they will lose more.

[Suntzu]

We don't have any food. The water has shit floating in it. There is no medical care to speak of. Nobody works. Let's fuck!

[Oxymandias]

@Suntzu

Actually the birth rate in Palestine has been declining over the years, depression is off the charts, and infant morality rate is high. I don't know where any of you are getting this idea that Palestine has a high birth rate.