[Canis_Lupus]

You should watch your back fake Dutchman, Supporting muslim terrorists is a treasonous act. You’ve been warned. A citizenship can be taken away in the blink of an eye.

On two occasions in 1994, Der Spiegel’s respected Balkan correspondent Renate Flottau encountered Osama Bin-Laden in the waiting room of the office of Bosnian President Alija Izetgevovic. Bin-Laden, then based in Sudan, had received a Bosnian passport from the Vienna
embassy of Bosnia - Herzegovina according to the Bosnian Muslim daily Dani.14 Bin-Laden and his military chief of Staff Ayman al-Zawahiri helped establish the Mujahadeen fighters as a force in Bosnia, mostly as special forces of the 7th Corps of the Bosnian Army in Central Bosnia.
Bodansky notes that support for the Bosnian Muslims was the first time that Shiite and Sunni Muslim terrorist organizations worked together. Yet, despite the presence of these extremist elements, and opposition by CIA Director James Woolsey, the Clinton administration gave the
green-light to an increase in arms shipments from Iran.

Interesting, isn't it?

In a later development of interest, on a visit in 2003 with Alija Izetbegovic in the hospital where he was dying, Bernard Kouchner, the former head of Doctors Without Borders and one-time Foreign Minister of France under Nicholas Sarkozy, recounts that on his death-bed, Izetbegovic acknowledged to both Kouchner and Richard Holbrooke that he had exaggerated claims of atrocities by Serbian forces to encourage NATO intervention against the Serbs. According to Kouchner, Izetbegovic admitted before both he and Holbrooke that, “There were no extermination camps whatever the horror of those places,” and added that “[he] thought that [his] revelations could precipitate bombing [of the Bosnian Serbs].”37

And for the ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia. Evidence says otherwise.Stop parrotting propaganda and focus on facts.

A second and closely related myth is that the Serbs initiated ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and elsewhere and were its almost exclusive implementers. Arguably, the first major ethnic cleansings in the 1990s occurred in Zadar and Gospic, Croatia, in May and September 1991,
respectively, with 116 Serb shops and houses destroyed in Zadar by a Croat mob, and with some 120 Serb civilians killed in Gospic a few months later.25 The largest ethnic cleansing of the Yugoslav wars was carried out by Croatian forces against Serbs, in the Krajina area of Croatia in August 1995. The ethnic cleansing in Bosnia was tit-for-tat among the Bosnian Muslims, Croatians, and Bosnian Serbs from 1991 till the Dayton Agreement in 1995.26 The four thousand or more Mujahadeen brought into Bosnia in support of the Bosnian Muslims, with the aid of
the Clinton administration, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan,27 were efficient killers, whose work, along with that of the other Bosnian Muslim paramilitary and regular forces, left many hundreds of Serb villages devastated and several thousand dead.28 The media’s presentation of the
Bosnian ethnic cleansing as one-sided, and with genocidal intent rather than a struggle for land control—and sometimes vengeance—has required massive suppression of evidence.

[roxunreal]

Where exactly was the capital situated?

As if it matters at all.

[Maas]

You should watch your back fake Dutchman, Supporting muslim terrorists is a treasonous act. You’ve been warned. A citizenship can be taken away in the blink of an eye.

bla bla
you should take note that my country is quiet happy to have the trial of Mladic on our soil.

The graves are there, the lists of names are there, the women moarning over them are there.
Nothing to deny.

[Independent_Srpska]

You must have special powers if you claim to know that I'm some other guy on this forum as well just because he as well disagreed with your fairy tales. The same could then be said for you and the RSK guy.

Well, dear Mouse, it is quite easy to recognize Ustasha propaganda, no need special power for that.

My only mistake is that I even spend time trying to have a "discussion" with with a subscriber of Greater Serbian nationalism who by definition literarly makes up stories against history based on amateur documentaries and out of context quote mining. But rest assured Serb ultra-nationalists live in a parallel universe from the rest of the world, have their own version of history, and their own way of reasoning where it's always someone else's fault and not the fault of the Serbs who wouldn't accept that the entire rest of Yugoslavia didn't want to be Yugoslavia anymore, that took up arms, took part of Bosnia and Croatia and started ethnically cleansing all non-Serbs from the areas, because making them a recognised minority is supposedly justification to take one third of a country and kill and exile its people. And then when we reacted to their murders and bombings, "we started the war". This is the logic, but it's only the logic of extremists (who ironically like to call others terrorists) who think that the Serbs leaving Croatia on their own orders before Croats even got to them is even nearly the same as the dozens of barbaric murders those under Mladic, Karadzic and other Serb heroes have been doing for 4 years killing or executing tens of thousands of civilians and destroying dozens of cities and villages. Of course add in some unrelated WW2 and evil NATO to try to dillute the very simple fact that you simply started killing non-Serbs first, and everything else was a reaction.

Well, your only mistake is - you are deluded - the things are simple, as I said, and stop whining.

Croats wanted illegal and anti constitutional secession - Croats in a form of HDZ ustashas decided to go for a violent, terroristic secession - firstly by harassing Serbs employed in public companies, military and police, then by another act of savage violation of Constitution of Yugoslavia and Croatia - Croats deprived Serbs of their constitutive status as a founders of Socialistic Republic Croatia.

Secession was not allowed according to the constitution of Yugoslavia - who ever wanted that - he was breaking the law and becoming a terrorist and a criminal. Yugoslavian state had a duty and obligation to prevent terrorists from harassing normal and peaceful population of Yugoslavia. Yugoslav state had to protect herself, too.

State of Yugoslavia had means to deal with filthy ustasha terrorists, but Germany, USA ie NATO prevented Yugoslavia in stopping ustasha terrorism. Therefore Croat Nazi ustashas, supported by the NATO fascists, managed to realize Hitler's idea of having Serb-free independent state of Croatia.

Dreams of Croatian Nazi past came true.

Pretty simple.

[Independent_Srpska]

a conversation with you feels like speaking to a nazi who is on a holocaust denial trip.

Phuh, pretty pathetic answer, dear Maas...We have a saying, which roughly can be translated like this:"A whore enjoys to speak about honesty..."

Somehow, it fits you...

But. let's get back to your rambling about ICMP (which was established by Clinton, who, as you could see, was ready to sacrifice 5.000 Muslims, just to find a reason to destroy Serbs as much as possible) - and then ICMP had to be a credible source of information?

Really pathetic.

[Independent_Srpska]

They started the war

Who are they?

1. Croats in Croatia (which was constitutionally Republic of SERBS and Croats)?
2. Croats and BH-Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina (Which was constitutionally - the republic of Serbs, Croats and Muslims (as of late 60s) )

Well, yeah, that's true.

1. The war in Croatia started filthy ustashas - read this from the mouth of the man who, basically, started the war:" Tudjman’s Police Minister Admits Croatia Started the War by Attacking Serbs "

2. As for Bosnia and Herzegovina - here is the video record from the place where joint BH-Muslim and regular army of Croatia forces massacred 9 Serbs on March 26, 1992 on the soil of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

[youtube]99S2M7Ny_HE[/youtube]

The bodies on the ground are dead Serbs - age of the victims was from 17 to 72 - perpetrators: Nijaz Medo Causevic, Zemir Kovacevic (BH-Muslims) and 108th Brigade of REGULAR CROATIAN ARMY (this the clear proof of Croatian aggression on Bosnia and Herzegovina - which is why, the anti-Serb court in the Hague avoided to process this war crime that initiated the civil war).



So, please, Mouse, you pathetic liar - stop lying....(huh, this is a kind of oxymoron)

However , it is clear that Croats and BH-Muslims started the war.

p.s.

Slovenians attacked Yugoslav Army at Holmec crossing border in June 1991.

[Independent_Srpska]

In what way does any of that (lack of Bosnian or Croatian expansionist intent) deem the secession legitimate? The United States broke up into its former colonial and post-colonial entities by the will of the people, yet the secession was deemed illegitimate. As was the Chechen secession in Russia, as was the South Ossetian secession in Georgia. Or did and do you expect ruling governments to simply relinquish their territory on a whim?

touché

[Maas]

Phuh, pretty pathetic answer

But it is. Nobody believes your conspiracy theories. "it was Clinton who dun it"
The Bosnian Serbs even made a commission themselves to look in to it in 2005.
Have a freaking wild guess what they concluded.

[Independent_Srpska]

But it is. Nobody believes your conspiracy theories. "it was Clinton who dun it"
The Bosnian Serbs even made a commission themselves to look in to it in 2005.
Have a freaking wild guess what they concluded.

Nope, that's not even close what I am saying....Clinton did not do the killings...

I'm just making fun of your CNN-ized argument:"ICMP said it"

• The ICMP has been established by Clinton (a Serb-lover who was ready to kill 5.000 Muslims in order to find a justification for air campaign against Serbs)
• 93% of employees are BH-Muslims
• the chairman is the ex-US-ambassador in B&H (typical Serbophob)
• ICMP laboratory in which they fabricate results is not authorized for the DNA analyses (by the International authorization body in that field - GEDNAP)
• the DNA analysis says NOTHING about the time of death (which means body remnants they analyzed (in unauthorized "laboratory") might have belonged to some medieval relatives - who were at that time, o' sweet irony - Serbs )
• DNA analysis says nothing about the way of death
• and the most important fact - the ICMP refuses to publish its findings
• the ICMP refused to provide Karadzic's defense in the Hague with results
• the ICMP even refuses to publish the list of identified person

...so, basically - the ICMP results are like yeti - they say it exists , but no one has seen it

[Maas]

again, a conversation with you is like talking to a nazi on a holocaust denial trip.
Even the comission installed by the Republika Srpska that looked into it, accepts the numbers.

the ICMP refused to provide Karadzic's defense in the Hague with results
the ICMP even refuses to publish the list of identified person
the ICMP results are like yeti - they say it exists , but no one has seen it

that is a load of bull. The lists are not public, but they are evidence and so everybody who had something to do with that trial saw them

[Independent_Srpska]

again, a conversation with you is like talking to a nazi on a holocaust denial trip.
Even the comission installed by the Republika Srpska that looked into it, accepts the numbers.

yeah, yeah, I know, you have a lack of evidence, lack of estrogen and lack of knowledge on the subject, but you believe in Godwin's law - so, pathetic...

However, what commission you are mentioning? The first one (which was more realistic) or the second one (which's report was dictated by viceroy of Bosnia - Paddy Ashdown) ?

that is a load of bull. The lists are not public, but they are evidence and so everybody who had something to do with that trial saw them

Not really, the real pile of bull is your "argument":"The ICMP said it" Which basically means:"Clinton says it" FFS how lame...

[Maas]

However, what commission you are mentioning? The first one (which was more realistic) or the second one (which's report was dictated by viceroy of Bosnia - Paddy Ashdown) ?

you know what I'm talking about. No reason to suddenly be an idiot.

Not really

yes really, the list of people found is mass graves was entered into the trial. Your whole childish arguments rely on that the ICMP is that independent that it will not share DNA taken from living family members, to verify who of their family is found dead, to anybody. Bo fucking hoo.

Maybe you should start your own institution to trace them "living" muslims who are acknowledged to be "missing".

[Independent_Srpska]

you know what I'm talking about. No reason to suddenly be an idiot.

No, I don't , do you? If you know - please elaborate...

yes really, the list of people found is mass graves was entered into the trial. Your whole childish arguments rely on that the ICMP is that independent that it will not share DNA taken from living family members, to verify who of their family is found dead, to anybody. Bo fucking hoo.

So, are you telling me that families want to accuse somebody for the death of a member of their family, but they don't want to disclose the name of the victim? Kind of strange...would you agree, in spite of your CNN-ized way of thinking?
Well, what to say - if the ICMP has a strong and honest word, as its founder has it under oath - then that's a real argument you are holding to

However you didn't answer me several questions regarding DNA analysis - let me repeat one:"What DNA analysis says about the time and way of death?"
Ah, yes - and that measurement scale for crimes of your - what it says about hypothetical ethnic cleansing of 97% of Flemish from Belgium?

Maybe you should start your own institution to trace them "living" muslims who are acknowledged to be "missing".

Well, it has been already ongoing - until the moment, Muslims acknowledged existence of 500+ living persons, who are on the list of "murdered Srebrenica Muslims", and at least 75 who got killed elsewhere (namely: around Sarajevo front lines) in the war (which means, knowing BH-Muslim officials' habits for lying about numbers, the number is going to be multiplied by 5 to 10)..and there are serious indications that around 3.000 "dead" persons voted on elections on several occasions... maybe you should call Clinton for an update?

[Maas]

No, I don't , do you? If you know - please elaborate...

I seriously can't be bothered with your dumb trolling

So, are you telling me that families want to accuse somebody for the death of a member of their family, but they don't want to disclose the name of the victim?

the lists were entered in trials already. I told you before

Well, it has been already ongoing - until the moment, Muslims acknowledged existence of 500+ living persons

even the Serbs say the numbers are rather correct.

[Independent_Srpska]

even the Serbs say the numbers are rather correct.

Now we have a situation in which Serbs "agree" with the figures and BH-Muslims decrease the fabricated number

what an interesting development of situation are you confused?

[Maas]

amazing isn't it,.. that a commission installed by the Serb republic says the numbers are right. All lies, no doubt. Its Clinton dressed up as a Serb pulling the strings in that commission bla bla bla

[Independent_Srpska]

yep, yep - luckily BH-Muslims institution refuted those fabricated numbers ...gotta be mind blowing for you...

[Maas]

yeah, the numbers changed enormous,.. not

[roxunreal]

Well, dear Mouse, it is quite easy to recognize Ustasha propaganda, no need special power for that.

Sure RSK, if you say so. I may be Maas as well then, Smilin' Dave and a whole lot of other people on this forum who see your Serb genocide denial for what it is

Croats in a form of HDZ ustashas decided to go for a violent, terroristic secession - firstly by harassing Serbs employed in public companies, military and police, then by another act of savage violation of Constitution of Yugoslavia and Croatia - Croats deprived Serbs of their constitutive status as a founders of Socialistic Republic Croatia.

I think you are a little confused, the constitution of Yugoslavia was void as Yugoslavia didn't exist anymore, by the legitimate and collective will of its peoples. Croats made Serbs a recognised national minority, which they were in the country given their % in the population. Croats in Serbia didn't even have that basic status until 2005 and never attacked anyone, yet somehow the Serbs thought it justified them to start killing and bombing thousands of people, because the Serbs are obviously "special".

Secession was not allowed according to the constitution of Yugoslavia - who ever wanted that - he was breaking the law and becoming a terrorist and a criminal. Yugoslavian state had a duty and obligation to prevent terrorists from harassing normal and peaceful population of Yugoslavia. Yugoslav state had to protect herself, too.

So suddenly everyone except the Serbs were terrorists? Sure baby, keep that false cult of victimhood going.

Everyone wanted out except the Serbs. The Serbs were not worth more than everyone else combined so that they had any right to prevent them. The laws of Yugoslavia ceased to exist when Yugoslavia ceased to exist by its own decision. Sorry, Serbia isn't more "Yugoslavia" than Slovenia, Croatia, Macedonia and BiH are (though I have no doubt about your nationalist delusions of being worth more than everyone else combined), thus Serbia had no right to act in the name of Yugoslavia but could only act in the name of Serbia, which it later did when it shifted its focus from pretending to be a guardian of Yugoslavia's existence against everyone's will, to simply dropping the whole pretend act and attempting to make an ethnically pure Greater Serbia come true under the guise of protecting the poor Serbs from the evil Croats and Muslims.

There was no Yugoslav state after everyone left, Serbia was expanding its territory and influences via its pseudo-country parasites in Croatia and BiH and its reborn Chetnik forces that killed thousands. Rest assured if anything in the 90's resembled Hitler's actions it was the Serb conduct across the Balkans that basically said "If we can't be in charge, let's kill all non-Serbs".

Who are they?

1. Serb forces in Croatia that started the "log revolution" harrassment and impairment of connectivity and commerce between parts of Croatia, attempted to cut off the southern part of the country from the north, occupied a third of Croatia and ethnically cleansed all non-Serbs from it which included several massacres such as those in Dalj, Široka Kula, Lovas etc before the Croats committed any atrocity towards the Serbs, this was followed by the Serb bombing of a dozen cities and complete destruction of one along with 1500 of its people. All because Croats made them a recognised national minority which due to their numbers in the country, they were. Well, that's today's excuse anyway, what they really wanted is obvious and had little to do with the lamented constitutional status.

2. Who started the war in BiH? Probably not this guy, right?
On 13 October 1991, Karadzic speaks with Momcilo Mandic : "In just a couple of days, Sarajevo will be gone and there will be five hundred thousand dead, in one month Muslims will be annihilated in Bosnia and Herzegovina".

1. The war in Croatia started filthy ustashas - read this from the mouth of the man who, basically, started the war:" Tudjman’s Police Minister Admits Croatia Started the War by Attacking Serbs "

Just because an admirer of Yugoslavia and a WW2 war criminal said so Gee and here I was thinking you despised war criminals from WW2. This whole bullshit that he thinks Yugoslavia was under attack by peaceful secession of the states that made it up is only his ideological opinion, as is that Croatia was part of Yugoslavia after independence even though such a thing as Yugoslavia didn't exist any more at that time.

Of course one should know more about the person to see where his rhetoric comes from. Knowing he had a falling out with HDZ and his touchy Yugoslav past (read: killing civilians after WW2 as a Yugoslav secret police chief), it's no surprise that he would talk shit about anti-Yu movement. Unfortunately for historical revisionsits, it's well known who seceded peacefully, and who started ethnic cleansing, massacres and bombing cities, which is what war really is. One war criminal and traitor's words won't change the wealth of historical evidence on the contrary.

2. As for Bosnia and Herzegovina - here is the video record from the place where joint BH-Muslim and regular army of Croatia forces massacred 9 Serbs on March 26, 1992 on the soil of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

That's a Serb news/film video so it must be solid unbiased truth right? Of course that's only one side of the story.
The other side is that the innocent civilians in Sijekovac that were armed Serb paramilitaries were later "reclassified" as civilians by RS, not to mention that there are people on that list who died in 1996 after the war (killed by local Serbs) yet they are classified as civilians killed by Croats and Bosniaks in 1992. Apparently others are guilty even when the Serbs kill their own.

Slovenians attacked Yugoslav Army at Holmec crossing border in June 1991.

Slovenia was an independent state with a foreign army invading its soil in a show of intimidation and dropping threatening propaganda leaflets on its capital city, and acted accordingly. Whine all you like, if anything they should be glad they acted promptly to the very first signs of JNA/Serb things to come, kicked their ass in a great organised operation, and thus avoided the fate of Croatia and Bosnia. At least the Serbs didn't get to fuck up another country.


So my conclusions while talking to you:

Serbs leaving on orders from their own leaders (and not because Croats cleansed them) as Croatia was liberated, and about 500 Serb civilians dead both in fighting and in subsequent reprisals, which were not ordered from above since general Gotovina ordered that no harm must come to remaining Serbs after Storm

^is a worse "crime" than:

12000 killed in barbaric 4-year Siege of Sarajevo, including 1500 children
8300 executed in Srebrenica
- just two of the pearls in the crown of Serb atrocities in Bosnia under innocent Serb heroes like Mladic and Karadzic.

Also, if we can learn anything from the likes of Serb genocide defenders, it's the following:

Always making anti-Serb conspiracies
Croats
Slovenes
Bosniaks
Albanians
Americans
Brits
Germans
Dutch
The Vatican
most of the rest of the world

Always right and innocent, even when killing thousnads of people:
Guess who?

[Independent_Srpska]

yeah, the numbers changed enormous,.. not

What numbers? The Clinton's number? Yeah, yeah....for sure...