[Independent_Srpska]

The International Commission on Missing Persons said it, not me

What the ICMP says about the time of death of those "identified"?

BTW, do you know who established the ICMP?

[Independent_Srpska]

BTW, do you know who established the ICMP?

So, Maas, you wanna hint?

Ok, here it is, watch carefully, the important part comes from a Dutch movie:

[youtube]075T3r-i8xE[/youtube]

He is the one who offers to the Muslim leader to sacrifice 5.000 Muslim lives in order to USA would have an excuse to attack Serbs.

The answer would be:________?

However, what's the deal with your answer about the measurement of the crimes in situation when Walloons expel the whole Flemish population (and murder 1% of it) out of Belgium?

[Maas]

What the ICMP says about the time of death of those "identified"?
BTW, do you know who established the ICMP?

a conversation with you feels like speaking to a nazi who is on a holocaust denial trip.

[roxunreal]

So, Mouse, Rat or whatever was your nick before

You must have special powers if you claim to know that I'm some other guy on this forum as well just because he as well disagreed with your fairy tales. The same could then be said for you and the RSK guy.

My only mistake is that I even spend time trying to have a "discussion" with with a subscriber of Greater Serbian nationalism who by definition literarly makes up stories against history based on amateur documentaries and out of context quote mining. But rest assured Serb ultra-nationalists live in a parallel universe from the rest of the world, have their own version of history, and their own way of reasoning where it's always someone else's fault and not the fault of the Serbs who wouldn't accept that the entire rest of Yugoslavia didn't want to be Yugoslavia anymore, that took up arms, took part of Bosnia and Croatia and started ethnically cleansing all non-Serbs from the areas, because making them a recognised minority is supposedly justification to take one third of a country and kill and exile its people. And then when we reacted to their murders and bombings, "we started the war". This is the logic, but it's only the logic of extremists (who ironically like to call others terrorists) who think that the Serbs leaving Croatia on their own orders before Croats even got to them is even nearly the same as the dozens of barbaric murders those under Mladic, Karadzic and other Serb heroes have been doing for 4 years killing or executing tens of thousands of civilians and destroying dozens of cities and villages. Of course add in some unrelated WW2 and evil NATO to try to dillute the very simple fact that you simply started killing non-Serbs first, and everything else was a reaction.

At least I have the decency to reject and condemn Croat fascism in WW2, you obviously still have a long way to go to become man enough to admit the inhumanity your people were responisble for much more recently.

[Far-Right Sage]

Roxy generally doesn't take kindly to men who defend their country; it seems a bit of a theme at this point.

We all know what the verdict on Mladic will be; it's already decided, that is unless he is silenced like Milosevic. All we can do is express our true feelings here which may not amount to a hill of beans, but regardless: Every generation needs heroes, and if the Serbian children growing up today can take Mladic and other heroes and the lessons they teach to heart, the Balkans, Europe, and the world will be a greater place for those amongst us who yearn for something greater than Roxy's commercial idea for mankind.

[roxunreal]

Serbian men, women, and children were under assault as well. Serbian soldiers were beheaded by Islamist militants, either Bosnian or Arab Muajahideen imported into Bosnia to crush the aspirations of the Bosnian Serb population. Serbian Orthodox churches were burned down.

Oh, the Serbs were also in danger eh? After they started expelling and killing non-Serbs en masse, they were also in danger because of the reactions to their actions, so let's pick their side. But knowing you, your criteria for picking sides is how many innocents the side killed, the more the merrier.

What is ugly is the filth people such as yourself have brought into Europe. It’s a disease.

The bosnian muslims? They were there for over 500 years.

Roxy generally doesn't take kindly to men who defend their country; it seems a bit of a theme at this point.

Defend against other's aggression, yes I do. "Defend" after their country does unthinkable crimes, not really. Blind loyalty is one of the worse characteristics a human being can have. I judge and defend things based on actions, not on status.

[Far-Right Sage]

Oh, the Serbs were also in danger eh? After they started expelling and killing non-Serbs en masse, they were also in danger because of the reactions to their actions, so let's pick their side.
But knowing you, your criteria for picking sides is how many innocents the side killed.

Serbs were not expelled or killed? I'm not sure what your argument is here, but do you honestly believe that the Serbs were not reacting themselves, something to do with a Slav union being split apart by illegal methods, or did the Serbian nation just catch a case of collective insanity and decided Muslims wore ugly clothes?

The bosnian muslims? They were there for over 500 years.

I was not referring to Bosniaks.

Defend against other's aggression, yes I do. "Defend" after their country does unthinkable crimes, not really. Blind loyalty is one of the worse characteristics a human being can have. I judge and defend things based on actions, not on status.

You condemn men like Mladic, Qaddafi, Assad, and others who have defended their people from the scum of the Earth, so there isn't much more to say on the subject.

[Maas]

.....the world will be a greater place .... / You condemn men like Mladic ... who have defended their people

There is nothing great about slaughtering unarmed civilians by the 1000's. It also has absolutely nothing to do with defending anything. Pitty nationalistic feelings is all what stands between accepting the ugly truth.

[roxunreal]

Serbs were not expelled or killed? I'm not sure what your argument is here, but do you honestly believe that the Serbs were not reacting themselves, something to do with a Slav union being split apart by illegal methods, or did the Serbian nation just catch a case of collective insanity and decided Muslims wore ugly clothes?

The Slav union was split up by the Slavs that made it in the first place. Serbs were the only ones who disaggreed, though Serbia's territorial integrity was never violated by other countries, but they reacted by the civilised means of siezing lands where they had little or no political history at all, and killing or exiling the population. Oh those poor victim Serbs

You condemn men like Mladic, Qaddafi, Assad, and others who have defended their people from the scum of the Earth, so there isn't much more to say on the subject.

Give me a break Mladic who defended his people by pushing them into war and executing civilians in the thousands and Gaddafi and Assad who defended their people by killing them so they can cling to their beloved power after their people were fed up with their bullshit. You're a fucking joke, and your heroes are nothing more than mass murderers. But not unexpected from someone who views Hitler in a positive light though.

[Far-Right Sage]

There is nothing great about slaughtering unarmed civilians by the 1000's. It also has absolutely nothing to do with defending anything. Pitty nationalistic feelings is all what stands between accepting the ugly truth.

Once again, Serbian soldiers were under attack and were beheaded in several instances after capture by Bosnian Army irregulars and Islamist Mujahideen of both Bosniak stock and foreign Arabs. Serbian men, women, and children (civilians) were killed. Serbian Orthodox churches were burned down. Under those circumstances, eliminating as many of the enemy as possible, and the carriers of the next generation, was the single most heroic act any man could have carried out, and I would be proud to call myself Serbian if given a chance to share the blood and stand shoulder to shoulder with some of the greatest post-war European heroes.

The Slav union was split up by the Slavs that made it in the first place. Serbs were the only ones who disaggreed, though Serbia's territorial integrity was never violated by other countries, but they reacted by the civilised means of siezing lands where they had little or no political history at all, and killing or exiling the population. Oh those poor victim Serbs

Ethnic Serbs had no history in Bosnia? Bosnia-Herzegovina was nothing more than a constituent entity of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and not an actual country until individual Bosniak leaders decided to make it one. Why would Serbs allow that, and more to the point, see the creation of a new fraudulent state in the Balkans with their own ethnic kinsmen over the border?

Give me a break
Mladic who defended his people by pushing them into war and executing civilians in the thousands and Gaddafi and Assad who defended their people by killing them so they can cling to their beloved power after their people were fed up with their bullshit. You're a fucking joke, and your heroes are nothing more than mass murderers. But not unexpected from someone who views Hitler in a positive light though.

I would suggest you exercise a modicum of respect, but I certainly will not hold my breath.

It is already clear to those of us who have lived and seen the reality of the world (rather than read a history according to NATO and the Gulf monarchies) that men like Qaddafi and Assad were killing treasonous, terroristic, half-human creatures, rather than any of their people, so I won't address that further here.

As for Mladic, what war exactly did he push any Serb into? The war was started by an illegal secession, and it was not the Serbs who pushed that, nor should they have tolerated. At the very least the Serbian race has given humanity great martyrs rather than go down in the disgrace that you would have.

Your heroes seem to be international organizations that practice state terrorism on a routine basis in a concerted drive to eliminate nations, borders, entire peoples, and sovereignty so we can all live in a "one global market" nightmare dystopia. As I would rather not empower, the bankers and pseudo-Marxist whores of this generation, yes I stand in opposition to that and for my people.

Hitler is irrelevant to this debate, and using the name as an attempted shock or scold is nonsensical. I make no apologies on behalf of the warriors of my people. And I certainly never will.

[roxunreal]

They started the war, then set out to commit genocide after the people got angry that the Serbs killed their families and destroyed their homes. The Serb leadership is responsible for everything that happened to their people in the war, you can't expect to start killing and not get killed in return as well.

The Serbs in Bosnia could have pursued their goals by other means than grabbing a part of the country, including areas with non-Serb majorities, and killing/expelling non-Serbs.

[Maas]

eliminating as many of the enemy as possible, and the carriers of the next generation, was the single most heroic act any man could have carried out

Glorifying genocide became out of fashion due to WWII.
We kill them lot who do it, or give them a life sentence.
Deal with the reality, old man. There is no place for you on the planet.
And Mladic knew this beforehand. So no need to bitch over it.

[Far-Right Sage]

They started the war, then set out to commit genocide after the people got angry that the Serbs killed their families and destroyed their homes. The Serb leadership is responsible for everything that happened to their people in the war, you can't expect to start killing and not get killed in return as well.

The war was started by an illegal secession. We can debate the merits or negatives of each opposing side, but that is the reality. Relating it to the American Civil War, even if the Union Army fired first on the boys holding Charleston harbor outside of Fort Sumter, the war would still be deemed to have been started by an illegal secession. You claim the Serbian leadership is responsible for "everything that happened to their people in the war", but not the Bosnian or Croatian leaderships? Absurd. They initiated the conflict.

The Serbs in Bosnia could have pursued their goals by other means than grabbing a part of the country, including areas with non-Serb majorities, and killing/expelling non-Serbs.

Fortunately they didn't.

Glorifying genocide became out of fashion due to WWII.
We kill them lot who do it, or give them a life sentence.
Deal with the reality, old man. There is no place for you on the planet.

According to your narrative, Maas, the Israelis are conducting ethnic cleansing in Palestine quite regularly, yet they don't seem to be going anywhere.

"Genocide" is just a word, like "war crime" which loses all meaning once it is spoken by dubious and shady characters and used to justify their own geopolitical objectives.

It also may terrify you to know Maas, that there are plenty like me on the planet, and if I bow out gracefully tomorrow after a bowl of oatmeal and a nice Irish coffee, I'll be content with the fact that I have raised the generation which comes after my short physical existence here as have others to resist the filth you propagate until the last bullet and drop of sweat, tears, and blood.

[roxunreal]

It is already clear to those of us who have lived and seen the reality of the world (rather than read a history according to NATO and the Gulf monarchies) that men like Qaddafi and Assad were killing treasonous, terroristic, half-human creatures, rather than any of their people, so I won't address that further here.

Gaddafi and Assad should have first killed themselves if they were after treasonous, terroristic, half-human creatures.

As for Mladic, what war exactly did he push any Serb into? The war was started by an illegal secession, and it was not the Serbs who pushed that, nor should they have tolerated.

I have already addressed this fallacy, the secession was legitimate, Yugoslavia broke up into its former federal republics as independent states of the people who lived in them by the will of everyone except the Serbs, yet Serbia's territorial integrity was never questioned. That's not starting a war. Starting a war is actually starting killing ethnic groups and bombing cities because you want to expand your territory. Mladic is responsible for the deaths of thousands of civilians during that war. There were 90 000 Croats living in Serbia but they never laid claims on Serbian territory, never wanted to create their own state on Serbian soil, nor ever engaged in any violence at all.

At the very least the Serbian race has given humanity great martyrs

Sure has, for those who praise sadism and murder maybe. For the rest of the world they are a disgrace for Serbia and the rest of humanity.

Your heroes seem to be international organizations that practice state terrorism on a routine basis in a concerted drive to eliminate nations, borders, entire peoples, and sovereignty so we can all live in a "one global market" nightmare dystopia. As I would rather not empower, the bankers and pseudo-Marxist whores of this generation, yes I stand in opposition to that and for my people.

My heroes are first and foremost those who stop the oppression and murder of people by others in power. I am no fan of the west or its greed, but that won't shut my eyes from crimes of those in power against their own or someone else's people just because they happen to be anti-western.

Again, my criteria of respect are deeds and actions, not if someone belongs to the same group as me.

You claim the Serbian leadership is responsible for "everything that happened to their people in the war", but not the Bosnian or Croatian leaderships? Absurd. They initiated the conflict.

The conflict was initiated by those that started bombing and killing first, you can try to paint it as you like but that's what it is.

[Far-Right Sage]

I have already addressed this fallacy, the secession was legitimate, Yugoslavia broke up into itse former federal republics as independent states by the will of everyone except the Serbs, yet Serbia's territorial integrity was never questioned. That's not starting a war. Starting a war is actually starting killing ethnic groups and bombing cities because you want to expand your territory. Mladic is responsible for the deaths of thousands of civilians during that war. There were 90 000 Croats living in Serbia but they never laid claims on Serbian territory, never wanted to create their own state on Serbian soil, nor ever engaged in any violence at all.

In what way does any of that (lack of Bosnian or Croatian expansionist intent) deem the secession legitimate? The United States broke up into its former colonial and post-colonial entities by the will of the people, yet the secession was deemed illegitimate. As was the Chechen secession in Russia, as was the South Ossetian secession in Georgia. Or did and do you expect ruling governments to simply relinquish their territory on a whim?

[roxunreal]

What ruling govermnents? This wasn't part of Yugoslavia leaving Yugoslavia, it was entire Yugoslavia dissolving on its basics. It seems that you share the Serb notion that Yugoslavia was somehow "theirs" so that when all parts of it decided to stop being Yugoslavia and become independent, the Serbs were taking back their seceded territory. See, when other Yugoslav republics decided they want to be their own countries, what was left wasn't Yugoslavia, it was Serbia with its puppet Montenegro, that had no legitimate claims on other countries that gained independence. The serbs living in those other countries could have continued living there and push for any autonomy or whatever by civilized legal means, or they could have went to Serbia. Nope, they started bombing and killing and ethnically purifying "their" territories, and got the appropriate response and scorn, and then their nationalists and sympathisers have the audacity to whine about it and play victim.

[Far-Right Sage]

You seem to be under the impression that it was their decision to make.

It was not, no more than Chechnya, South Ossetia, or South Carolina. And the response was both predictable and deserved.

[roxunreal]

Your examples are those of small single territories seceding from the rest of the mother state. Yugoslavia was the state itself breaking up because everyone seceded from each other. It was damn well their decision to make, and not the Serb's decision.

[Far-Right Sage]

Where exactly was the capital situated?

I'm of the opinion that the breakup of Yugoslavia as we saw it was probably going to happen at some point, but this doesn't mean the Serbs should walk away from the matter or allow false nations like Bosnia-Herzegovina to arise with ethnic Serbs in their territory.

[Maas]

Your examples are those of small single territories seceding from the rest of the mother state. Yugoslavia was the state itself breaking up because everyone seceded from each other. It was damn well their decision to make, and not the Serb's decision.

to be more correct,.. Yugoslavia was a federation of 6 republics. It never really was 1 state.

According to your narrative, Maas, the Israelis are conducting ethnic cleansing in Palestine quite regularly, yet they don't seem to be going anywhere.

They rather get away with getting rid of the Palestinians the Mladic style to make it a true homeland of the Jew, without the need to share. But they do not dare to break the only true friendship they have left on this world. And so that does say plenty, how the world has made up their minds up on this subject.

It also may terrify you to know Maas, that there are plenty like me on the planet

Its the other way around, old man. There are plenty of me, and verry verry few like you.
Maybe you should use your walker to get out more and snif reality.
Who is "terrified" now?