An Assyrian watch group has published an article about the systematic targeting of Christians within Syria:
"Nations whose nationalism is destroyed are subject to ruin." - Muammar Qaddafi
That article is pulled from a blog at http://www.lewrockwell.com/ which is full of utter nonsense and conspiracy theories.
Having said that Muslims in general are partial to persecuting Christians so I wouldn't be surprised.
That in no way discredits the statements of Catholic Mother Agnes Miriam in her report over Irish radio about the FSA-rats systematically committing atrocities against Christians in Homs.
"Nations whose nationalism is destroyed are subject to ruin." - Muammar Qaddafi
Positively engineer biological degeneracy
The FSA are accusing the governemnt of a false flag attack which I consider completely plausible. Assad is doing everything he can to distract Syrians and the world from what his forces are doing.
After all, this is regime which was just caught red-handed attempting to create sectarian strife in Lebanon:
Probe reveals Syria’s Assad behind Lebanon terrorism plot
^that story seems impossible to believe due to complete lack of motivation on the part of the supposed client. Lebanon's government is one of the few Arab governments friendly to Syria right now, it makes less than zero sense trying to destabilize it with terrorist attacks of any nature, especially sectarian ones. I'm not saying it's impossible, but the motivations are beyond me.
And all we have in the way of proof is Samaha's supposed testimony as understood by a Lebanese tabloid known for strongly anti-Syrian views.
Ideational Ontarian wrote:
The Western Oligarchs are doing everything to distract Westerners and the world as to what their forces (industrial and military) are doing to the world and its various species.
Assad is the latest bogeyman, but there will be many more until the West finally runs out of ammo/clean water/money/allies.
The paper that originally printed the article is barely a year old. How exactly do you have a body of evidence adequate to accuse it of being a tabloid? Anyway the judge in the case is launching an investigation into the leak. If the information was wildly off base the judge would not have bothered. Additionally, other sources have produced information on the investigation.
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Politi ... z24uCMAz5F
You clearly don't know much about Assad, Syria, or Lebanon. The Baathists have been assassinating politicians and journalists in Lebanon literally non stop since the 80's. It has never mattered who is in power in Beirut.
It is incredibly simple, the weaker the Lebanese state, the stronger Hezbollah is and the stronger Syria's position is in Lebanon. People forget the previous governemnt was anti-Syrian and the revolutionary Lebanese parties could easily reclaim parliament in next year's elections. Obviously, Assad had something in mind for Lebanon.
Quote:Well good, let them investigate and see what they actually claim to discover. So far there is no evidence to judge.
Quote:This incident isn't even about assassinations but about explicit desire to "incite sectarian fighting" by means of bomb plots, apparently.
But about assassinations, they are used primarily to undermine Syria's position in Lebanon, such as in 2005 when the Syrian army had to leave Lebanon. That's surely not something that Syria wanted at the time, right? You'd think that if they were doing it, they'd learn their lesson by now eh? I understand one thing is assassinating Trotsky in a foreign country in which the state has nothing to lose anyway, a powerful intellectual leader without whom the opposition movement would be hard to sustain. I don't understand assassinating mediocre politicians backed by an indigenous ethnic group in a neighboring country where you have everything to lose. Hell, Mussolini's government almost fell when one of his main opponents, Matteotti, was assassinated. His own Fascist party was just about ready to dump him. You don't just do those things and hope for the best. If the assassinations do come from Syrian Baathists, they probably come down from figures like Rifat al-Assad and others who are not very interested in the wellbeing of the current regime.
Quote:Not when Hezbollah and its allies are already in control of the Lebanese state. Did you hear Michel Aoun speak about the events in Syria? Hell, that guy sounds like more of an Assad supporter than Hezbollah and he's the driving force behind the current government, along with Nasrallah of course but that goes without saying. Syria's position would NOT be stronger if this government was overthrown due to another wave of popular anger at Syria's meddling in Lebanon's affairs or if it was threatened by civil-ethnic strife. Aside from everything else, destabilized or weaker Lebanon, even with a friendly government, would mean that it would be even easier for arms and militants to cross into Syria than it is already. Bashar would have to be nuts if that's what he has in mind. Above all else Syria needs a stronger Lebanon capable of at least slowing down the flow of arms across the border.
If anyone is truly interested in inciting sectarian violence in Lebanon right now, that would be the opposition.
Again, tabloids are known for sensational journalism often filled with unsubstantiated scandals. Theres no evidence that the paper is a tabloid.
As I said, the Hezbollah-Aoun alliance's hold on power is tenuous at best. Assad will always want a weak Lebanese state because his allies in Lebanon benefit from that situation and it leaves the oppertunity open for a new occupation/annexation. How will Hezbollah recieve it's arms if a strong state closes the border?
The point of the assassinations is to destroy dissent and and ensure there is no strong figure opposing Assad. Do you really think that after 25 years of occupation killing with impunity that they thought the Lebanese would rise up and be supported by the international community? No, Assad was definitely suprised.
As for this plot to create tensions, Im not sure what the endgame was but it probably had something to do with next years elecitions or possibly creating an even bigger rift between the Sunnis and Shia which the Syrians could exploit.
I don't know, I'm not an imperialist dictator so Assad's machinations are still somewhat of a mystery to me.
Quote:oh my.. Let me explain the absurdity of what you just said by means of an analogy:
"Again, black people are known for committing crime and liking rap, so there is no evidence that Barack Obama is a black person."
Come on! It's a freaking tabloid paper, get over it.
Regarding sensationalism, I don't know the paper well enough to say whether it is known for excessive sensationalism (in my opinion all newspapers are, but that's just how the market works), but it is so far the only source of this information, also a source well known for anti-Syrian views.
Of course this doesn't stop you from going from "some newspaper claims that some guy claims that he is blowing shit up for Assad" straight to "it's been concluded that Assad is blowing shit up in Syria" despite the lack of any meaningful link or motivation.
Quote:Again you're overlooking the important point that a weak lebanese state would not make the pro-Syrian forces in Lebanon stronger since they are currently in control of that state and any instability would make their position worse, not better. They don't have unrestrained power over it, but neither would they have such power if the state was weaker - they'd just have more chaos that undermines their position in government. And what occupation/annexation? You seriously think Syria is in a position to occupy another country right now? XD
If Syria wasn't facing a mess of its own, I could perhaps see some light in your agrument. I could see how Syria could prefer a weaker and divided lebanese state that is easier to dominate, and it could use ethnic strife and instability in Lebanon as an excuse to escalate its intervention and interference, though even then it would be veeeery careful not to do anything that might undermine the positions of friendly forces there, especially if they are leading in government, or to invite a foreign intervention byNATO or the like in Lebanon. But now? You must be kidding.
And Hezbollah is definitely not the one who is in need arms right now, though if anything it can always import arms by coast which it de-facto controls. Hezbollah is already very well armed and it's doing fine. It's the Syrian opposition that constantly whines about the lack of munitions. And one of the places that they like to smuggle those munitions from is through Lebanon, given that they have sympathizers there and the border is largely mountainous. The more pressure is put on those smugglers, the better for Syrian government.
This is like referring to the Wall Street Journal as a tabloid. Technically it's the accurate term to describe the format in which the paper is printed (something I didn't know until I looked it up) but to most people who do not know the technical term, it seems you are putting it on the same level as the National Inquirer. Anyway this is completely immaterial.
Simply because neither you nor I know what Assad's exact motivation is for this latest sheme doesn't it make it any less plausible. The fact is that a well known Syrian collaborator has been arrested in an investigation to commit terrorist acts. Leaked reports have said that he confessed and implicated his Syrian masters. The story has been backed up by other outlets such as the Daily Star here and Naharnet.
Daily Star wrote:
You just don't understand how Syria operates. The fact is even the ruling bloc's support for Syria isn't that solid AT ALL. After all, Aoun was the last Lebanese general to face the Syrians in battle.
Daily Star wrote:
Syria will NEVER want a strong Lebanese state no matter what the circumstance.
Why do you think there are daily battles in Tripoli and Hezbollah kidnappers abducting foreign nationals? Do you honestly think those people are not affiliated with Assad? The other major motivation is that Syria must continue to make Iran happy to ensure the flow of arms and personnel. They do that by maintain Hezbollah's strength and Hezbollah is strengthened by sectarian conflict because it is itself a sectarian gang.
NY Times wrote:
You see, it is not as simple as "Hezbollah controls parliament so Syria controls Lebanon." It is FAR more complicated than that. The fact is Prime Minister Mikati is sort of a centrist and President Suleiman is starting to grow some balls in confronting the Syrians.
It is my opinion that they are attempting to create another zone of conflict to distract regional and world powers but I obviously can't be sure. Again, a false flag attack is definitely not beyond Assad's capabilities and I wouldn't be surprised if it was the regime that attacked that funeral. After all, the motivation for that is clear: it supports the regime's claims about terrorists and helps rally sectarian minorities to his cause.
Quote:I wouldn't say that citing a source is the same thing as backing it up... >_>
Quote:I know it isn't solid, which is precisely why I said in my previous post that Syria can't afford to fool around with things like blowing up bombs and provoking sectarian strife. An unambiguous association with people who terrorize Lebanon would cause a fall of the current lebanese government to be sure, and its replacement with a far more anti-Assad government.
Quote:Which people? Hezbollah itself was not even involved in the clashes, its base is too far south.
The reason why there are clashes is because Tripoli is an important Lebanese port with a mixed demographics, and it is being used a lot by smugglers working with the Syrian opposition. As such, it is really no surprise that there would be confrontations there between pro-Syrian and anti-Syrian groups there. The Syrian government doesn't even have to get itself involved at all for there to be tension in that area, but even if it was, that would still have nothing to do with blowing up bombs in attempt to fuel ethnic tensions and/or undermine the government.
Quote:Just like all of the other gangs of Lebanon?
Quote:How would that succeed at distracting anyone? If anything, that would draw even more attention to the issue. You and the NYT article you quoted seem to talk of transferring the crisis from Syria to Lebanon, but can you visualize how that would actually look like? Because I can't. You can't just transfer your problems elsewhere by causing problems for other people who are also your friends, no, you'll just expand the crisis and make things worse for yourself. So the whole idea doesn't really make any sense.
And sure, I was not aware that Hezbollah and FPM were attempting to "moderate" their public image with respect to Syria, but that doesn't really mean anything, does it? We still know they're allies of the Syrian regime and they're also the best bets that the regime has in Lebanon (along with minor Alawi and Sunni-Baathist parties), others are worse. Think the POR party in Ukraine with repspect to Russia. Yes, Russia would prefer a weaker Ukraine at the moment and Yanukovich and his party are far from ideal partners, but Russia still knows that they're better than the alternative, so they support them. You don't see them doing shit like trying to assasinate Tymoshenko or blow up bombs in Western Ukraine or something, things that would surely make their situation worse, not better. Syria has even less interest in destabilizing Lebanon right now than Russia has in destabilizing Ukraine.
Also here's something unrelated:
How in hell can Syria be an obstacle in transporting oil from Turkey to Europe?
Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
Igor Antunov wrote:
Everybody gets slaughtered there. Entire neighbourhoods get bombed. There are no exceptions being made, even when you're Christian. And so something like this, is no proof that muslims are out to get Christians while also busy trying to control the entire country.
They referenced their own "judicial sources" not the leaked transcripts.
Quote:Ah, while that is true, those sources (unnamed as always) only say that:
"According to the judicial sources, investigations with the two men focused on information they had regarding Samaha’s transport of explosives from Syria to Lebanon, as well as who provided Samaha with the material, to whom it was delivered and its purpose."
...which seems like a fairly straightforward claim that makes no mention of the specifics of what information was actually gathered.
Quote:"I was going to blow shit up for Assad!!! Wait, what did I just say? Never mind that please, I demand a witness!"
what the hell? Something is seriously wrong with this story.
Pikachu, seriously. This is a man who has been a known collaborator for his ENTIRE political career. He has literally been Assad's number 1 Maronite henchman since the Civil War. He was caught smuggling explosives over the Syrian border and plotting to blow something up. What exactly do you think he was doing? Do you think he was trying to hurt Syria's position? Seriously?
It's not like they caught Samir Geagea with a bomb and he blamed it on Syria...
Quote:He could have been bought out by someone else, for instance. If long time Syrian supporters of Bashar can defect, why can't his Lebanese supporters do the same? Maybe he was planning to defect and someone suggested that an even better move (financially perhaps) would be to pull this maneuver, which he thought he could get away with, maybe they even deliberately set him up in some way or it could be that he was caught by accident. That's one possibility.
Another possibility is that he was smuggling explosives for Bashar, but they weren't intended to be used on Sunni religious leaders and it wasn't with the intent to start a civil war, which is something he made up later, but for an entirely different purpose.
Of course, it could also be that Bashar knows something none of us know and he has a genius plan for Lebanon. It was really his work, just as the rumors say.
It could be anything really, the possibilities are endless. One thing is clear is that he's changing his story and trying to take back his testimony (whatever was actually in it, we don't even know), which normally indicates that something is fishy and he cannot be trusted.
I like to call that "the reach." There is no fucking way he changed his allegiance. Besides the stories you just concocted are far-fetched at best. I think for the first time in his career as a filthy traitor, Samaha was suprised by a Lebanese official (Kfouri) that actually had the balls to stand up to his foriegn masters. Then the ISF followed through and arrested the scumbag and he was so shocked by this defiance that he gave up his masters under (probably excessive) interrogation.
Anyway, we shall se how this case unfolds. The prosecutor's office will tighten up after these leaks so I dont expect to see more info until later in the proceedings.
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