[Igor Antunov]

Nicola Sturgeon said it was "democratically unacceptable" that Scotland faced the prospect of being taken out of the EU against its will.

She said the Scottish government would begin preparing legislation to enable another independence vote.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-sco ... s-36621030

Given the discrepancy with the rest of the UK, this EU exit will bring the Scots pro-independence referrendum to an inevitable conclusion if it goes ahead.

[yiostheoy]

Not only Scotland but also Northern Ireland as well.

[Godstud]

So Scotland pretty much voted to stay IN the EU? Is that what's happened? I suppose this makes sense. I don't think UK leaving the EU is good, to be perfectly honest. I don't think it'll have the effects that people think it will, especially regarding immigration.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

So Scotland pretty much voted to stay IN the EU? Is that what's happened? I suppose this makes sense. I don't think UK leaving the EU is good, to be perfectly honest. I don't think it'll have the effects that people think it will, especially regarding immigration.

Scotland voted for the UK to remain. The relationship between the UK and the EU is governed by a lot of exceptional arrangement that the UK has negotiated over the years. It's not clear whether the Scots would be so keen to be a member if they don't get the same or similar terms. For instance, future EU members are required to join the eurozone at one stage. It's of course possible that Scotland will be able to negotiate favourable terms too, but this vote was about UK membership, not the membership of Scotland.

[Albert]

Spain is already blocking Scottish bit for EU as it fears it will set a dangerous precedent and cause problems with Catalan for them.

Belgium as well.
Spain and Belgium 'would veto an independent Scotland's EU membership'

[Potemkin]

Spain is already blocking Scottish bit for EU as it fears it will set a dangerous precedent and cause problems with Catalan for them.

Strange how the Spaniards don't seem to have a problem with the Ukraine breaking away from the Soviet Union and applying for EU membership, but they object vehemently to Scotland doing something very similar....

[Albert]

Are you suggesting Ukraine is as Russian as Scotland is Anglo.

[Potemkin]

Actually, yes. The Ukrainian language is as similar to the Russian language as Scots English is to Standard English. And Scotland was an independent, unified nation with its own monarchy for a thousand years before the Act of Union, from the time of Kenneth MacAlpin onwards, which is more than can be said for the Ukraine.

[Dave]

The Ukraine isn't a real country at all.

Not only is "Ukrainian" only a dialect of Russian, but Russia itself was founded in the Ukraine.

Scotland was a very different nation from England and many ways still is.

Can anyone even name Ukrainian traits that are different from Russian ones?

[Rugoz]

Can anyone even name Ukrainian traits that are different from Russian ones?

Seems pretty obvious. At least when it comes to Western Ukrainians.

[noir]

Pote, did you vote?

[Albert]

Seems pretty obvious. At least when it comes to Western Ukrainians.

I have many friends from Ukraine. Mostly from Kiev, aside from nationalistic bobasity of the youth, that goes something like "we are more Russian then you are. You evil oppressors." You will be not able to tell them apart from Russians. They speak Russian, celebrate all the holidays that we do, same religion. Eat, drink what we do basically.

You are right about the western Ukraine though, but even then i met few from the west there is not much of a dif there as well. Aside that they actually do speak Ukranian dialect, which I can understand mostly. In western Ukraine they also look down on Russians because they were once part of Austrian Empire so hence by association they are more 'civilized' then us dirty Russians. But granted they do have a lot of Polish and Austro-Hungarian influence/connection historically and culturally.

But central, souther and eastern Ukraine is just Russia 2.0 just like Belarus is as well.

[Decky]

Belarus is far better than Russia. They stayed loyal to the best system of government humanity has conceived.

[Rugoz]

I have many friends from Ukraine. Mostly from Kiev, aside from nationalistic bobasity of the youth, that goes something like "we are more Russian then you are. You evil oppressors." You will be not able to tell them apart from Russians. They speak Russian, celebrate all the holidays that we do, same religion. Eat, drink what we do basically.

You are right about the western Ukraine though, but even then i met few from the west there is not much of a dif there as well. Aside that they actually do speak Ukranian dialect, which I can understand mostly. In western Ukraine they also look down on Russians because they were once part of Austrian Empire so hence by association they are more 'civilized' then us dirty Russians. But granted they do have a lot of Polish and Austro-Hungarian influence/connection historically and culturally.

But central, souther and eastern Ukraine is just Russia 2.0 just like Belarus is as well.

Ukrainians seem to be less obedient. I cannot imagine Russians protesting in a similar way, even though they have plenty of things to protest about.

[Albert]

@Decky
You will be surprised how many Belarussians actually like Lukashenko. They see him as a paternal figure who at heart looks out for their interest, and granted he did do a lot of good. I think he is actually more of a reason why any attempts have not been seriously considered for reunification with all ever loving and embracing mother Russia.

@Rugoz I would not exactly say so. Ukraine has less stability then Russia atm, be it political or economic. Their oligarcs are completely out of control as well. Whereas Putin keeps the Russian oligarchy in check. I believe this is more so the reasons why for Ukraine's unrest rather then some inherit character.

[Decky]

You will be surprised how many Belarussians actually like Lukashenko. They see him as a paternal figure who at heart looks out for their interest, and granted he did do a lot of good. I think he is actually more of a reason why any attempts have not been seriously considered for reunification with all ever loving and embracing mother Russia.

I would not be surprised at all, he is a great man. When Russia betrayed socialism Belarus stayed loyal.

[Albert]

I think Belarus is a dictatorship rather then a country that aspires to socialist ideals.

Lukashento did do a lot of good, for one because of him you did not have the 'rise of the oligarchs' phenomenon in Belarus. That had happen in Russia and Ukraine after those countries' economies became liberalised.

[Rugoz]

@Rugoz I would not exactly say so. Ukraine has less stability then Russia atm, be it political or economic. Their oligarcs are completely out of control as well. Whereas Putin keeps the Russian oligarchy in check. I believe this is more so the reasons why for Ukraine's unrest rather then some inherit character.

Russia is equally corrupt. Putin doesn't mind oligarchs as long as they are loyal.

Of course Russia is doing somewhat better economically and is rich in natural resources. Natural resources are a great "pacifier".

The reason I think Ukrainians are less obedient is because the Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine have generally been very passive.

[Albert]

Russian political process is not as influenced by oligarchs as it is in Ukraine. That is mostly the consequence of Putin and his niche using an ironhand to consolidate power. Otherwise the political process would be a shitstorm it is in Ukraine today. Where different factions of oligarchs battle for power.

Hence it can be said, that Russian gov is less corrupt as it can function without abstraction of oligarcs who's interest might be more self serving, then ones that benifit the nation as a whole.

And I do not think natural resources alone can pacify dissent. Also at the end of the day, Russia has more then just natural resource to speak off.

Also Russian part of Ukraine right now is conducting an armed separatists resistance to current pro-eu government. That is 'passive' in your opinion?

[Rugoz]

Russian political process is not as influenced by oligarchs as it is in Ukraine. That is mostly the consequence of Putin and his niche using an ironhand to consolidate power. Otherwise the political process would be a shitstorm it is in Ukraine today. Where different factions of oligarchs battle for power.

Hence it can be said, that Russian gov is less corrupt as it can function without abstraction of oligarcs who's interest might be more self serving, then ones that benifit the nation as a whole.

And I do not think natural resources alone can pacify dissent. Also at the end of the day, Russia has more then just natural resource to speak off.

Also Russian part of Ukraine right now is conducting an armed separatists resistance to current pro-eu government. That is 'passive' in your opinion?

- The democratic political process in Russia is dead. People have no influence, they're being ruled from above and they seem to be fine with it. In Ukraine it is still alive and only because Ukrainians did not let one leader consolidate power.
- Russia and Ukraine are equally corrupt according to the only ranking I know.
- Natural resources are evidently a big factor. In Russia not as much as in Saudi Arabia obviously.
- There was no civil mass protest in the East that compares to the West (Orange Revolution and Euromaidan). What happened in the East was an attempt at violent takeover pretty much from the start, orchestrated by Russia.