Philippines President Duterte orders US forces out after 65 years: 'Do not treat us like a doormat' - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14725581
The Philippines' bombastic President Rodrigo Duterte has ordered a halt to his nation's 65-year military alliance with the United States. Duterte, who is locked in a bitter war of words with the US, has taken steps to suspend joint military patrols and ordered American troops to leave the country.

Duterte's defence minister, Delfin Lorenzana, said the 28 joint military exercises that the countries carry out each year under a 1951 defence treaty will be stopped, patrols with US navy vessels in the South China Sea had ended and 107 American troops flying surveillance drones against Islamic extremists would soon leave as soon as Philippines soldiers were equipped to take over their duties.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/philippines-pr ... at-1585434

You know if I was an enemy to the American people, I would root for Hillary right now. 4 more years of her policy failure and that would be all she wrote. Losses left and right.

I could say I told you so, but that would be gloating.
#14725590
You know if I was an enemy to the American people, I would root for Hillary right now. 4 more years of her policy failure and that would be all she wrote. Losses left and right.

I could say I told you so, but that would be gloating.

To be fair to Hillary Clinton, this has been building up for more than a century, ever since the U.S. decided to grab some of the Spanish Empire's colonies back in the 1890s by brutally invading the Philippines (as well as Puerto Rico, Cuba and half a dozen other places). The Filippinos have always resented this, but had been cowed into submission for a century or more. All that has changed is that the Philippines now has a leader - Duterte - who cannot be cowed into submission by anyone and who cannot be bought off. Looks like America's overseas colonies and client states are finally throwing off their shackles....
#14725650
The Philippines are militarily weak and are dependent on American and Japanese support to guarantee its sovereignty and secure its territorial integrity, in light of the ongoing controversy surrounding the South China Sea and the shameless territorial claims made by China. Duterte is basically handing them the disputed islands for a pittance due to his irresponsible and reckless behaviour.
#14725682
Is that how "colonies" throw off their shackles, by ordering occupying forces out?

Stupid comparison.

It worked for most of the former colonies of the British Empire, didn't it?

And why are most Americans so reluctant to admit that they have colonies and an imperium? There's no shame in it. Most European nations had empires in the 19th and early 20th centuries; it was the done thing back then. The Philippines, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, and other places - these are all a legacy of the short-lived burst of empire-building America went through in the 1890s. Why are you so ignorant of history?
#14725690
Potemkin wrote:It worked for most of the former colonies of the British Empire, didn't it?

And why are most Americans so reluctant to admit that they have colonies and an imperium? There's no shame in it. Most European nations had empires in the 19th and early 20th centuries; it was the done thing back then. The Philippines, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, and other places - these are all a legacy of the short-lived burst of empire-building America went through in the 1890s. Why are you so ignorant of history?


I'm sorry but by simplifying all international relations to a colony-occupier relationship you're the one being ignorant of history.

The Philippines were never an American colony*.

Edit: *After ww2.
#14725713
The Philippines were never an American colony.

Sure, and the American invasion of the Philippines was actually just a bunch of marines on shore leave who got involved in a bar-room brawl which spilled out onto the street. The historical reality is that the U.S. grabbed a bunch of colonies off the ailing Spanish Empire in the 1890s, and those former Spanish colonies were not allowed to govern themselves or to declare independence. The U.S. 'liberated' them from Spain only to shove them into its own back pocket.
#14725715
Potemkin wrote:Sure, and the American invasion of the Philippines was actually just a bunch of marines on shore leave who got involved in a bar-room brawl which spilled out onto the street. The historical reality is that the U.S. grabbed a bunch of colonies off the ailing Spanish Empire in the 1890s, and those former Spanish colonies were not allowed to govern themselves or to declare independence. The U.S. 'liberated' them from Spain only to shove them into its own back pocket.


I corrected it in time ;)

Regardless, it's not useful to talk about the Philippines as an American colony today.
#14725733
Regardless, it's not useful to talk about the Philippines as an American colony today.

Especially not after Duterte has ordered American troops out of their former colony. :)
#14725980
Potemkin wrote:To be fair to Hillary Clinton, this has been building up for more than a century, ever since the U.S. decided to grab some of the Spanish Empire's colonies back in the 1890s by brutally invading the Philippines (as well as Puerto Rico, Cuba and half a dozen other places). The Filippinos have always resented this, but had been cowed into submission for a century or more. All that has changed is that the Philippines now has a leader - Duterte - who cannot be cowed into submission by anyone and who cannot be bought off. Looks like America's overseas colonies and client states are finally throwing off their shackles....


I can't think of anything more un-American than throwing off the shackles of a colonial power. Don't they understand that we just want what's best for them?
#14725981
Potemkin wrote:It worked for most of the former colonies of the British Empire, didn't it?

And why are most Americans so reluctant to admit that they have colonies and an imperium? There's no shame in it. Most European nations had empires in the 19th and early 20th centuries; it was the done thing back then. The Philippines, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, and other places - these are all a legacy of the short-lived burst of empire-building America went through in the 1890s. Why are you so ignorant of history?


Haven't you seen Star Wars? Empire-building is such a European thing to do. We bring freedom and democracy to unwashed savages.
#14726105
The Philippines started reporting Chinese incursions in the region as early as the 1990s but the U.S. did not react. During the same time, the latter was issuing reports revealing that it no longer had control of Asia.

To complicate matters, China is a major trading partner of the U.S. and of the Philippines.

From the end of WW2 onward, the U.S. backed one corrupt pro-U.S. Philippine government administration after another while providing surplus military equipment. Those are two reasons why the Philippine military hardly developed.
#14726117
It is impossible to try and put up really nice airs about US imperialism. At the time the United States was completely open about imperialism.

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The New York Evening Post wrote:There is no question that our men do 'shoot N*****' somewhat in the sporting spirit, but that is because war and their environments have rubbed off the thin veneer of civilization...Undoubtedly, they do not regard the shooting of Filipinos just as they would the shooting of white troops. This is partly because they are "only N*****," and partly because they despise them for their treacherous servility...The soldiers feel they are fighting with savages, not with soldiers."


Boston Herald wrote:Our troops in the Philippines...look upon all Filipinos as of one race and condition, and being dark men, they are therefore 'N*****,' and entitled to all the contempt and harsh treatment administered by white overlords to the most inferior races.


Hell, the Anti-Imperial League was specifically founded specifically to oppose the United States getting involved with the Philippines.

Later there were attempts to make this into a Jeffersonian ideal of, "The Empire of Liberty." Two problems with that—the concept was from Citizen Genet in an attempt to tie the American Republic and the French Republic into a single unit as much as possible. Something that Jefferson did support, while Hamilton opposed it as he wanted into that sweet British Empire's market. In neither case were they at all espousing any kind of anti-imperialism as we think about it.

Incidentally, despite conservative's lies to the contrary, Jefferson enthusiastically endorsed the Reign of Terror by the French Republican government in murdering its own citizens that weren't enthusiastic enough about the republic:

Jefferson wrote: The tone of your letters had for some time given me pain,3 on account of the extreme warmth with which they censured the proceedings of the Jacobins of France. I considered that sect as the same with the Republican patriots, and the Feuillants as the Monarchical patriots, well known in the early part of the revolution, and but little distant in their views, both having in object the establishment of a free constitution, and differing only on the question whether their chief Executive should be hereditary or not. The Jacobins (as since called) yeilded to the Feuillants and tried the experiment of retaining their hereditary Executive. The experiment failed completely, and would have brought on the reestablishment of despotism had it been pursued. The Jacobins saw this, and that the expunging that officer was of absolute necessity, and the Nation was with them in opinion, for however they might have been formerly for the constitution framed by the first assembly, they were come over from their hope in it, and were now generally Jacobins. In the struggle which was necessary, many guilty persons fell without the forms of trial, and with them some innocent. These I deplore as much as any body, and shall deplore some of them to the day of my death. But I deplore them as I should have done had they fallen in battle. It was necessary to use the arm of the people, a machine not quite so blind as balls and bombs, but blind to a certain degree. A few of their cordial friends met at their hands the fate of enemies. But time and truth will rescue and embalm their memories, while their posterity will be enjoying that very liberty for which they would never have hesitated to offer up their lives. The liberty of the whole earth was depending on the issue of the contest, and was ever such a prize won with so little innocent blood? My own affections have been deeply wounded by some of the martyrs to this cause, but rather than it should have failed, I would have seen half the earth desolated. Were there but an Adam and an Eve left in every country, and left free, it would be better than as it now is. I have expressed to you my sentiments, because they are really those of 99 in an hundred of our citizens. The universal feasts, and rejoicings which have lately been had on account of the successes of the French shewed the genuine effusions of their hearts. You have been wounded by the sufferings of your friends, and have by this circumstance been hurried into a temper of mind which would be extremely disrelished if known to your countrymen.


"Adam and Eve" and, "The Tree of Liberty," are usually used by stupid reactionaries for the opposite reason in an Orwellian attempt to get the stupid on board.

But, more on track, this was Jefferson's endorsement of an Empire of Liberty that included the French Empire. It was not, in any way, an anti-imperial stance.

There is no American exceptionalism. For that matter, there's no European exceptionalism. There is capitalism.

Kicking out the Americans is a good start for the Philippines.

But they're going to have to follow it up with the guillotine for their own bankers, businessmen, and other traitors as Jefferson hinted at.

With apologies to James Connolly, if you remove the American army tomorrow and hoist the three stars and a sun over Manila, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain.
#14726118
It is impossible to try and put up really nice airs about US imperialism. At the time the United States was completely open about imperialism.

Precisely. This is why I find Rugoz's ignorance concerning the history of American imperialism, whether that ignorance is real or feigned, to be inexplicable. The historical record is very clear on this matter - the U.S. set out in the 1890s to become an imperial power, and it succeeded. Rugoz is simply engaging in an Orwellian attempt to rewrite history.
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