[foxdemon]

More on the commercial side of the story.

https://theconversation.com/religion-is-not-the-only-reason-rohingyas-are-being-forced-out-of-myanmar-83726

I'd say there is no chance of Western power influencing the situation. Both India and China are in it up to their eye balls. I would like to see the West try, though. Their failure will highlight the steep decline in Western global influence compared to the rising Asian giants. It just isn't the same as in the youthful days of the baby boomers when their values could shape the world, eh @anarchist23 ?

[Rich]

Democracy came to Myanmar, and it turns out that ethnic cleansing was a very popular platform.

The whole thing is wildly dissapointing, but at least it's a chip in the idea that we can bring democracy somewhere and they will magically turn into a liberal western society.

I've been trying to tell people for years. The only people who like Muslims are WIGs (White Infidel Gentiles). The Buddihists hate them, the Hindus hate them, the people of the Central African Republic hate them, the Jews of Israel hate them, the South Sudanese hate them, even the Angolans hate them.

Not even Muslims like Muslims, they're always butchering each other. If the West hadn't stopped them the Middle East would have been a radio active wasteland by now. So much do the Muslims hate each other that even Israel could only distract them from fighting each other for about five minutes.

[Ned Lud]

I've been trying to tell people for years. The only people who like Muslims are WIGs (White Infidel Gentiles). The Buddihists hate them, the Hindus hate them, the people of the Central African Republic hate them, the Jews of Israel hate them, the South Sudanese hate them, even the Angolans hate them.

Not even Muslims like Muslims, they're always butchering each other. If the West hadn't stopped them the Middle East would have been a radio active wasteland by now. So much do the Muslims hate each other that even Israel could only distract them from fighting each other for about five minutes.

Heil Netemyahu! Death to Humanity!

[Ter]

The conversation about the Rohingyas has stopped in pofo but the problem is very actual.
A lot of verbal diarrhoea from many politicians but zero results and every day more Rohingyas are streaming over the border, there are more than 400,000 that have come to join the hundreds of thousands that have come earlier, a couple of years ago.

Help has started to flow in, the disaster tourists like MSF have come, the journalists and especially the photojournalists are having a field day but nothing has happened to bring a solution closer.

Here are my views on the Rohingya problem:

Aung San Suu Kyi follows the general feeling of her citizens against the Muslims in Myanmar.
She can do that because Russia, China and India are protecting her in the UN.

By chasing the Rohingyas over the border, Myanmar has created a "fait accompli". Those refugees can go places but not back to Myanmar.

I personally believe the Rohingyas were quite peace loving people but they were having lots of kids and they were converting the non-Muslim locals through marriages and other ways. They had become a 41% minority in Arakhan and the Burmese assumed (rightly or wrongly) that sooner or later they would try to obtain independence after trying to introduce Sharia law.

The Burmese could see what happens in countries where certain parts are Muslim like The Philippines, Thailand, Kashmir, Chechenya, Bosnia-Herzegovina, and even in countries that are already a Muslim majority like Nigeria, Indonesia,and so on.

As for Bangladesh, they would find it quite beneficial having a neighbouring place that is sympathetic and offers plenty of Lebensraum.

The Bangladeshi Authorities are trying to contain the refugees in camps because they have started trickling into the general population where they are indistinguishable from the locals because they are ethnically. linguistically, culturally and religiously exactly the same.

The United Nations office for refugees has already told Bangladesh that they should be prepared to host the refugees for a long time.

This was my update.

[Rich]

These anti terror operations are fantastic. They have my complete support. Muslim terrorism didn't just appear out of a clear blue sky on 9/11 as many Americans and westerners seem to imagine, its been around for 1400 years. This could prove to be Myanmar's Battle of Tours moment.

[anarchist23]

When you view these videos of the Rohingya refugees one realises the enormity of the disaster befallen on these hundreds of thousands of families.

Drone footage of Rohingya refugees escaping atrocities in Myanmar.

Rohingya refugee camp in Bangladesh.

[Suntzu]

More countries need to follow Myanmar's lead.

[59 More]

More needs to follow Zimbabwe lead. But I agree, we need to study Myanmar tactics against Christians(Whites westerners) in general.

[Suntzu]

More needs to follow Zimbabwe lead. But I agree, we need to study Myanmar tactics against Christians(Whites westerners) in general.

So, how's it workin' out in Zimbabwe?

[59 More]

[Zag Edit: Rule 3]

[Pants-of-dog]

More countries need to follow Myanmar's lead.

...so that we get more Muslim refugees in North America?

[mikema63]

On a bit of a broader note, what can or should we do about this situation?

Most everyone probably agrees military intervention is out of the question, and while we could threaten economic sanctions that does threaten the small gains they've had democratically and would probably reverse that progress. So what really are the options here?

[Pants-of-dog]

On a bit of a broader note, what can or should we do about this situation?

Most everyone probably agrees military intervention is out of the question, and while we could threaten economic sanctions that does threaten the small gains they've had democratically and would probably reverse that progress. So what really are the options here?

Hydro-electric dams , water treament plants, and nuclear reactors.

Drawing on my parenting experience, I know that rewarding positive behaviour is more effective than punishing bad behaviour.

So we tell them to stop ethnically cleansing Muslims and when they do, we give them clean electricity and clean water.

They stop being oppressive bigots, the west gets an ally in the region, more people get access to clean water, and the rate of global warming is reduced.

[anarchist23]

One might say to little and to late, but at least there is now tangible pressure on the Myanmar military to cease its violence against the Rohingya.

First published on Tuesday 24 October 2017.

The US has announced it is withdrawing military assistance from Myanmar units and officers involved in violence against Rohingya Muslims that has triggered a mass exodus and humanitarian crisis

“We express our gravest concern with recent events in Rakhine state and the violent, traumatic abuses Rohingya and other communities have endured,” said a state department spokeswoman, Heather Nauert, announcing the punitive measures.

“It is imperative that any individuals or entities responsible for atrocities, including non-state actors and vigilantes, be held accountable.”

UN report on Rohingya hunger is shelved at Myanmar's request

Washington already had restrictions on its engagement with Myanmar’s armed forces, as well as a long-running embargo on all military sales, and the withdrawal of military aid serves to reinforce that position.

Last week the secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, said the US held Myanmar’s military leadership accountable for the Rohingya refugee crisis, drawing a distinction with Aung San Suu Kyi’s civilian government.

The world would not stand and “be witness to the atrocities that have been reported,” he said, adding that the military must be restrained.

On Tuesday the Associated Press reported that US officials were now preparing a recommendation for Tillerson to go further by declaring that “ethnic cleansing” was occurring against the Rohingya.

Tillerson could receive the recommendation as early as this week, officials familiar with the process said. Tillerson will then decide whether to adopt the advice of his agency’s policy experts and lawyers.

Militant attacks on Myanmar security forces in Rakhine sparked an army crackdown that has already been likened to ethnic cleansing by the UN. More than 600,000 members of the minority Muslim group have fled across the border into Bangladesh since late August.

The state department said it had halted its consideration of travel waivers for senior Myanmar military leaders and was considering targeted economic measures against individuals, along with targeted sanctions.

The US has rescinded invitations to senior members of Myanmar’s security forces to US-sponsored events and is pressing for “unhindered access” to the affected areas for a UN fact-finding mission, international organisations and the media.

“The government of Burma, including its armed forces, must take immediate action to ensure peace and security; implement commitments to ensure humanitarian access to communities in desperate need; facilitate the safe and voluntary return of those who have fled or been displaced in Rakhine state; and address the root causes of systematic discrimination against the Rohingya,” Nauert said.

Donald Trump is due to make his maiden visit to the region early next month when he will attend a summit of Asean countries, including Myanmar, in Manila.

The measures announced by the state department are the strongest US response so far to the months-long Rohingya crisis but fall short of the most drastic tools at Washington’s disposal, such as reimposing broader economic sanctions suspended under the Obama administration.

If Tillerson does announce that the US believes ethnic cleansing has occurred, it would greatly raise pressure on the Trump administration to act. This could include further sanctions against Myanmar, a country that Washington has repeatedly lauded for its 2015 democratic transition that brought Aung San Suu Kyi to power.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... gya-crisis[/quote]



.

[mikema63]

@Pants-of-dog not a terrible idea, the Democratic reforms they do have were a result of rewarding then with lifted sanctions and your ideas are just a bit more active.

[anarchist23]

This calamity of seismic proportions is now being finally being addressed with proper funding.

GENEVA, SWITZERLAND —
The heads of leading United Nations aid agencies kicked off a special one-day pledging conference to raise $434 million to provide life-saving assistance for 1.2 million people, including all Rohingya refugees and host communities in Bangladesh.

Before the pledging conference, a UN refugee agency spokesman said number of Rohingya refugees that have fled violence and persecution in Myanmar during the past two months has topped 600,000.

Aid agencies agreed it is one of the most severely underfunded crises in the world, which led Mark Lowcock, Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator to tell delegates the focus of the day’s event would be “to mobilize resources to save lives and protect people.”

He said, “The new arrivals include numbers of very severely acutely malnourished children and the U.N. agencies will need to continue to update and adapt our appeal to support beyond what we have put out and we are discussing today. “Let me be clear, funding is a major constraint. We need more money to keep pace with intensifying needs.”

The mass exodus of refugees into Cox’s Bazar, Bangladesh began August 25 after Rohingya insurgents killed nine police officers, triggering vicious reprisal attacks by the Myanmar security.

Lowcock, who had visited Bangladesh earlier this month, described, what he called heart-rending accounts of “killings, arson, rape, torture, and other abuse,”

He said the Rohingya were facing “a human, humanitarian and human rights nightmare. Children, women and men fleeing Myanmar are streaming into Bangladesh traumatized and destitute.”

Bangladesh has been host to nearly 400,000 nationals from Myanmar, including Rohingya, for the past three decades.

Shameem Ahsan, Bangladesh’s Ambassador to the U.N. in Geneva told the conference with the current arrival of 600,000 refugees, “the number of forcibly displaced Rohingyas in Bangladesh has now reached nearly one million.”

He noted that the current situation was “the quickest exodus from a single country since the Rwandan genocide in 1994. Despite claims to the contrary,” he said, “the violence in Rhakhine State has not stopped. Thousands still enter on-a-daily-basis.”

He warned the arrival of such a huge number of displaced people in Cox’s Bazar “created massive socio-economic and demographic pressure on Bangladesh” and added that other human security risks exist including “fear of epidemics.”

The Rohingya Muslims have lived in the mainly Buddhist State of Rakhine for centuries, but have been denied citizenship and remain the largest stateless minority in the world. Myanmar considers them illegal migrants.

“If the root causes are not addressed in Myanmar urgently, we will not see the end of this crisis any time soon,” said Filippo Grandi, U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees.

He agreed with others who noted that the root of the problem lay with Myanmar and that the solution must be found there. “So, it is important to focus on the solution.”

This, he said included an end to violence in Myanmar, the granting of unfettered access to humanitarian agencies into northern Rakhine State and the creation of “conditions for the right of return for the refugees.”

Though still in its infancy, a political process to resolve this thorny issue is underway. The United Nations and Myanmar authorities have begun discussions and the Bangladeshi Ambassador announced that his government is continuing bi-lateral efforts with Myanmar to find a durable solution.

William Lacy Swing, Director General of the International Organization for Migration said it is important to move quickly to support “the encouraging talks that are going on between Bangladesh and Myanmar” and to create the conditions for the safe, secure, dignified return of these long-suffering people “to their ancestral home.”

Since the crisis began, U.N. agencies have been providing refugees with urgently needed food, shelter, water and sanitation, health care, and other relief. All agree that humanitarian operations need to be scaled up, but without additional money, this will be difficult to do.

Pledges received at the end of the one-day conference totaled more than $344 million. Though this was about $90 million short of the goal, emergency relief coordinator, Mark Lowack, said that he was encouraged.

“Of course, pledges are one thing” he said. It is really important to us that the pledges are translated as soon as possible into contributions and go into the agency bank accounts.”

https://www.voanews.com/a/un-pleadging- ... 82174.html[/quote]

[Ter]

Bangladesh eyes sterilisation to curb Rohingya population


Rohingya children struggling to collect food at a camp in Cox's Bazar

The Rohingya are not interested in birth control

Bangladesh is planning to introduce voluntary sterilisation in its overcrowded Rohingya camps, where nearly a million refugees are fighting for space, after efforts to encourage birth control failed.

More than 600,000 Rohingya have arrived in Bangladesh since a military crackdown in neighbouring Myanmar in August triggered an exodus, straining resources in the impoverished country.

The latest arrivals have joined hundreds of thousands of Rohingya refugees who fled in earlier waves from Myanmar’s Rakhine state, where the stateless Muslim minority has endured decades of persecution.

Most live in desperate conditions with limited access to food, sanitation or health facilities and local officials fear a lack of family planning could stretch resources even further.

Pintu Kanti Bhattacharjee, who heads the family planning service in the district of Cox’s Bazar where the camps are based, said there was little awareness of birth control among the Rohingya.

“The whole community has been deliberately left behind,” he told AFP, citing a lack of education in Myanmar, where the Rohingya are viewed as illegal immigrants and denied access to many services.

Bhattacharjee said large families were the norm in the camps, where some parents had up to 19 children and many Rohingya men have more than one wife.

District family planning authorities have launched a drive to provide contraception, but say they have so far managed to distribute just 549 packets of condoms among the refugees, who are reluctant to use them.

They have asked the government to approve a plan to launch vasectomies for Rohingya men and tubectomies for women, Bhattacharjee told AFP.

But they are likely to face an uphill struggle.

Many of the refugees told AFP they believed a large family would help them survive in the camps, where access to food and water remains a daily battle and children are often sent out to fetch and carry supplies.

Others had been told contraception was against the tenets of Islam.

Farhana Sultana, a family planning volunteer who works with Rohingya refugees in the camps, said many of the women she spoke to believed birth control was a sin.

“In Rakhine they did not go to family planning clinics, fearing the Myanmar authorities would give medicine that harms them or their children,” Sultana said.

Volunteers said they struggled to sell the benefits of birth control to Rohingya women, most of whom came to them for advice on pregnancy complications or help with newborns.

Sabura, a mother of seven, said her husband believed the couple could support a large family.

“I spoke to my husband about birth control measures. But he is not convinced. He was given two condoms but he did not use them,” she told AFP.

“My husband said we need more children as we have land and property (in Rakhine). We don’t have to worry to feed them,” she said.
Population control

Bangladesh has for years run a successful domestic sterilisation programme, offering 2,300 taka ($28) and a traditional lungi garment to each man who agrees to undergo the procedure.

Every month 250 people undergo sterilisation in the border town of Cox’s Bazar.

But performing the permanent procedure on non-Bangladeshi nationals requires final approval from a committee headed by the health minister.

The idea is particularly contentious given the sensitivity of the issue in Myanmar. The widespread perception that the Rohingya population is mushrooming is a key source of the tensions that have spiralled in recent months.

No official data is available on birth rates among the Rohingya, who are excluded from the census in Myanmar.

But many of the ethnic Rakhine Buddhists accused of taking part in attacks on Rohingya villages that have driven hundreds of thousands into Bangladesh say they fear being displaced by the Muslim minority.

The Rohingya face official restrictions on the number of children they can have in Myanmar, although this has not been widely enforced.

Rights activists working in the camps in Bangladesh said some believed pregnancy provided protection against rape or other attacks in Myanmar, where the military has been accused of sexual violence against Rohingya women and girls.

“Some of them told us that if a woman was pregnant, she had less chance of being targeted by the military or attackers.”

Bangladesh officials say some 20,000 Rohingya women are pregnant and 600 have given birth since arriving in Bangladesh, though this may be an underestimate as many births take place with no formal medical help.

“Sterilisation of the males is the best way to control the population,” said Bhattacharjee.

“If a man is sterilised, he cannot father a child even if he marries four or five times.”

http://www.dhakatribune.com/world/south ... opulation/

The article speaks for itself.
This population would outnumber the Buddhist majority in Rakhine very quickly.
But this aspect of the problem is not part of the dilomatic conversations going on.
Myanmar does not want them back, they are stalling the negotiations.

[skinster]

^ that article is horrific.

[foxdemon]

^ that article is horrific.

I agree skinster. But this is the 21st century. It is only going to get worse the further into this century we go.

[Decky]

Has anyone ever considered a similar solution to the Dutch issue?