[Frollein]

The same idiotic punchlines. The truth is: what bothers fascists like you is the very presence of organic assimilation/integration. Not the lack of it. The first generation of immigrants lived and worked in Germany for 30 years doing low pay jobs, and no German bothered about their inability to speak German.

That's because learning the language of your host country is your job, not the one of those you honor with your presence. It's obvious that you won't get high paying, highly qualified jobs if you don't even bother to learn the language. Cry me a river, will ya? And how's not learning the language proof of "organic assimilation"?

No German government did anything to assimilate/integrate them. No German bothered about their isolated lives in ghettos. It was not a problem at all. Turks became a problem when 2nd and 3rd generation of those illiterate immigrants come up, speaking German, opening businesses, graduating from universities, in short, mingling with the rest of the society.

I can't be bothered to dig up the numbers for you, but we've spent billions on integration programs - we even went so far to finance your healthcare insurance for familiy members in fucking Turkey, people who never set a foot on German soil. That's how fascist we are!

What I expect from governments is not to act out of self-interest, but out of national interest. In my humble opinion, no sane person with an average intelligence or above can claim that the recent actions of German and Dutch governments served the national interests of German or Dutch people.

Newsflash: national interest is self-interest. And no sane person with an average intelligence would think that giving in to your government's temper tantrum would be smart policy, especially in light of our own upcoming elections, and Erdogan knew that. He consciously sought this escalation, because he knew he'd put the Europeans on the spot. There's only so much you can bow to until you lose face and credibility on the international level. A country that bends over and takes everything a third-world Hitler wannabe sends their way would lose all standing.

Everyone on this forum was crowing how we need to stop Russia, so should we invite Putin to speak to our Russian Germans, too? Tell them not to learn German and remember them that their loyalty lies with Russia? For some reason, nobody seems to think it would be a good idea.

But hey, bring it on. Agitate the Turks and all the other ME riffraff, so people realize what they've been harbouring in their midst. It's always necessary to bring a problem out into the open before you can deal with it.

[Nonsense]

I think that what Turkey's Prime Minister is doing, is interfering in another state's internal affairs.

You cannot dispatch Ministers from one's country to another, in order to publicly influence the thinking of ex-pats living there.
How would Westminster politicians(who have strict conventions on such matters)like it, if an MP trotted over the constituency border to his neighbourly MP living in the adjoining constituency & started politicking on that patch?

It's not the done thing is it.

The question that I ask myself is, "why does Erdogan feel the need to exert any influence on Turkish ex-pats living abroad, when domestic politics should be the focus of his attention"?

Maybe he feels somewhat insecure?

When one thinks back on the Cypriot conflict, it's all about, as usual, 'power-control' over people, not just those within national borders & this is true with most larger states that want influence outside of their borders.

[Vanasalus]

Not only should the Turks be thrown out of Europe, but they must be forced out of Constantinople.

"When your countries were still swamp and forests, culture had already lit up our lands for thousands of years. And when you are nothing but history, we'll still be here. "

Statistically Turks do not integrate well into European societies (crime, educational attainment, poverty), though there are worse immigrants, like those from MENA countries. If only they would graduate from universities at the same rate as Germans! The first generation didn't have a problem with their low social status since for them it was a step up from their previous life.

You cannot expect more Turkish college graduates while the school system in Germany try its best to shut down the gates of universities to immigrant kids.

Is it accurate assessment? Cause this is how historians asses what happened also to the Jews after emancipation. As long as they were in the ghettoes the hate against them was contained its become lethal when they assimilated. But the Muslim situation it's different, the Europeans went a long way to accommodate with "multiculturalism", it's the Muslims who don't want to integrate.

It is the accurate assessment. And it is not an exceptional situation for either Turks or Jews in Germany. Take the American example. In 1800s, Irish immigrants were the ones systematically denigrated and discriminated against, forced into the worst jobs, etc. Later, Italians took their place. Then perhaps Jews. And today, Mexicans. They did not integrate for time being, not because they didn't want to, but because majority of the society put barriers to inhibit their integration.

I also don't accept your hypothesis of "But the Muslim situation it's different". How on earth Muslim immigrants do and integrate significantly better in the US or in Australia compared to their "cousins" in Europe?

That's because learning the language of your host country is your job, not the one of those you honor with your presence. It's obvious that you won't get high paying, highly qualified jobs if you don't even bother to learn the language. Cry me a river, will ya? And how's not learning the language proof of "organic assimilation"?

I don't see no whatsoever "honor" to learn a language which was deemed fit by Charles V for talking to horses. Of course that is my opinion as a person having nothing to do with Germany.

And, of course Turks living in Germany should be able to speak German. And they do. Except some of the first generation immigrants, who are busy dying of old age. What is utterly hilarious is you as a young fascist coming up and complaining about it 30-40 years of late.

I can't be bothered to dig up the numbers for you, but we've spent billions on integration programs - we even went so far to finance your healthcare insurance for familiy members in fucking Turkey, people who never set a foot on German soil. That's how fascist we are!

You can dig whatever numbers you want. It would not change the fact that your integration programs, if any, were not successful enough to stop you whining about immigrants. Your government, your failure! Are you expecting a hymn or apology from me for your own shortcomings.

Newsflash: national interest is self-interest. And no sane person with an average intelligence would think that giving in to your government's temper tantrum would be smart policy, especially in light of our own upcoming elections, and Erdogan knew that. He consciously sought this escalation, because he knew he'd put the Europeans on the spot.

If you are expecting a medal from me for your dimwitted service to Erdogan, I am afraid you are talking to a wrong person. Go along and find an Erdogan supporter.

Everyone on this forum was crowing how we need to stop Russia, so should we invite Putin to speak to our Russian Germans, too? Tell them not to learn German and remember them that their loyalty lies with Russia? For some reason, nobody seems to think it would be a good idea.

Last time you Germans tried to "stop Russia", you lost East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia. Please don't do it again for your own sake.

But hey, bring it on. Agitate the Turks and all the other ME riffraff, so people realize what they've been harbouring in their midst. It's always necessary to bring a problem out into the open before you can deal with it.

Ah, a veiled threat comes at last. We have another saying in Turkey: "A dog that barks never bites."

Bark as much as you want, my friend. That will offend nothing but your lungs.

[Oxymoron]

:lol:

"When your countries were still swamp and forests, culture had already lit up our lands for thousands of years. And when you are nothing but history, we'll still be here. "



Y.

Interesting movie trailer, will not watch it.

[Vasili Blokhin]

@Oxymoron Turks won it fair and square, if the Turks have to give up Istanbul. Westerners have to give back some of their territory to the previous owners. Which means, Mexico get it's land, Spain gets Florida, Hawaii be independent.

[Oxymoron]

@Oxymoron Turks won it fair and square, if the Turks have to give up Istanbul. Westerners have to give back some of their territory to the previous owners. Which means, Mexico get it's land, Spain gets Florida, Hawaii be independent.

I did not say for them to give it up, I said we should take it back from the Turk barbarians. By all means if the Mexicants want to try we can dance any time they want.

[Vasili Blokhin]

@Oxymoron I see why you left the USSR, the idea of whites not oppressing non-whites is abhorrent to you. I just wish the Soviets send you to Siberia when they had the chance. But I'll tell you this: when Mexico do take back Texas, I will go straight there and help them weed out the pests myself.

[Rugoz]

You cannot expect more Turkish college graduates while the school system in Germany try its best to shut down the gates of universities to immigrant kids.

Eh come on. Why you think immigrant kids from certain countries to a lot better than from others, in fact often better than the natives? Why do think kids from working class families do worse than those from academics? Because it depends on how much kids are being pushed and supported to perform at school by their parents. The school system can only partially make up for the lack of parental education.

Go along and find an Erdogan supporter.

Yes apparently they are very rare since he keeps winning elections.

[noir]

@Vanasalus

No German bothered about their isolated lives in ghettos. It was not a problem at all. Turks became a problem when 2nd and 3rd generation of those illiterate immigrants come up, speaking German, opening businesses, graduating from universities, in short, mingling with the rest of the society.

Don't get the point, so you think the third generation did integrated? Where are the barrier?

They did not integrate for time being, not because they didn't want to, but because majority of the society put barriers to inhibit their integration.

I also don't accept your hypothesis of "But the Muslim situation it's different". How on earth Muslim immigrants do and integrate significantly better in the US or in Australia compared to their "cousins" in Europe?

Which barrier? Being substantial minority, this third generation want to be part of the European Islamic Ummah.

The situation in Europe is different because Europe tries the policy of multiculturalism, that is letting them to import their culture. Of course it was bound to lead to this mess but at that time the EU believed they are conducting Islamophile policy.

[Vasili Blokhin]

@noir What's wrong with Multiculturalism? Why do westerners have a problem with it? In the Eastern Bloc we encourage regional cultural roots and ethnic self determination(under socialism of course). The problem with the west is it's capitalistic by nature and only in it for globalistic reasons. You people were just as Multicultural in 19th century as you are now. One was outward through imperialism, another inward through commodity reasons.

[noir]

Multiculturalism in Europe is different thing, it's ideology which helped to radicalize the Muslim minority. It started as an ideology and a strategy for promoting an alliance and economic agreements between the EU and the Arab world.

[noir]

@The Sabbaticus, does he have a chance?

[The Sabbaticus]

@The Sabbaticus, does he have a chance?

You can still vote and no one should trust mainstream polls.

[noir]

@The Sabbaticus Did you vote already?

[Frollein]

Turkey begins deporting Dutch cows



Apparently, they weren't as willing as the goats... or was it because they didn't want to wear a hijab?

[noir]

Dutch election exit polls: Mark Rutte's VVD party on track to win most seats after support for Geert Wilders drops off

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03 ... vie-power/

[Istanbuller]

This recent nonsense proved that mass immigration is a threat to national identity of the host country. Migrants are turning into vile creatures when they are organized against the host country and doing spying activities on behalf of their origin countries.

Anti- immigration groups and parties will have better arguments even though that Wilders lose this election.

[Oxymoron]

@Oxymoron I see why you left the USSR, the idea of whites not oppressing non-whites is abhorrent to you. I just wish the Soviets send you to Siberia when they had the chance. But I'll tell you this: when Mexico do take back Texas, I will go straight there and help them weed out the pests myself.

You are saying the Soviets did not oppress their minorities? In any case Mexican is not a race, and majority of their leadership and elites, are White of Spanish descent. Mexico cannot take back Juarez from Al Chapo, what you talking about Texas. You are one deluded individual.

[Vasili Blokhin]

@Oxymoron Maybe crushing dissent and reactionary elements, but where peaceful for the most part, better than the americkkka for sure. You confederate scums treat the Mexicans even "White Spaniards" as Brown people. Mexico can do anything if they put their mind to it, if the Mexicans can kill every last peckerwood in the alamo, they can do the same in Texas.

[Vanasalus]

Eh come on. Why you think immigrant kids from certain countries to a lot better than from others, in fact often better than the natives? Why do think kids from working class families do worse than those from academics? Because it depends on how much kids are being pushed and supported to perform at school by their parents. The school system can only partially make up for the lack of parental education.

Just google "German school system discrimination", and enjoy the countless number of links related to topic ranging from peer reviewed academic journals to NGO reports, from Der spiegel articles to teacher testimonies, and many more.

It is a fact that up to 75% of immigrant kids (though most of them are 2nd or 3rd generation) end up in Hauptschule, lowest ranking type of German school system, while barely 30% of "blonde" German kids end up in a Hauptschule.

It is a also a fact that the small fraction of immigrant kids who managed to get in a Gymnasium, best schools in German system, end up in a class with other immigrant kids segregated from the rest.

And it is also a fact that, all these things are done based on children's "language skills", e.g. the kids with accents can easily find themselves in a Hauptschule though their cognitive language skills are perfectly fine and they are good at math.

Yes apparently they are very rare since he keeps winning elections.

Well, presence of many Erdogan supporters among Turks does not automatically make me an Erdogan supporter, just like spotting a German doesn't automatically mean spotting a Nazi. Our individual ideologies, words and deeds define what we are as persons. And, I do not appreciate the dimwitted service of German and Dutch governments to Erdogan. That is all I said. I don't know what the hell you are objecting?

Don't get the point, so you think the third generation did integrated? Where are the barrier?

What I am saying is they do much better than their fathers and grandfathers in spite of the barriers. And, just check above, my response to Rugoz, if you are looking for the barrier.

Which barrier? Being substantial minority, this third generation want to be part of the European Islamic Ummah.

Your persistent awe and questions about "the barrier" remind me the story of those Germans who survived WWII asking "What concentration camp?" and saying "We did not know!" :P

Barrier that you are asking is the tarrier that isolates, segregates and denigrates the immigrants. The barrier that inhibits one's realization of his/her potential and goals. The barrier that alienate people, pushing them towards extremist deviant paths. The barrier which slows down the integration, hence the barrier which makes fascist rumblings about "lack of integration" possible.

Kapish?