[Oxymoron]

@Oxymoron Maybe crushing dissent and reactionary elements, but where peaceful for the most part, better than the americkkka for sure. You confederate scums treat the Mexicans even "White Spaniards" as Brown people. Mexico can do anything if they put their mind to it, if the Mexicans can kill every last peckerwood in the alamo, they can do the same in Texas.

Yes the Soviets were known for their peaceful nature, just ask the Baltics and Finns.
Those loser Aztecs barely captured a "Fort" in name only undermanned and under armed, then we marched into their Capitol and took half their territory.

[Orestes]

I also don't accept your hypothesis of "But the Muslim situation it's different". How on earth Muslim immigrants do and integrate significantly better in the US or in Australia compared to their "cousins" in Europe?

My understanding is that, in US, this is because:

1) Muslim immigrants tend to be of higher socio-economic status already on the point of arrival, and it's been so since 1965 when immigration laws were relaxed (IIRC more are satisfied with their financial situation than the national average). I recall Doomhammer saying something to the effect of "the problem isn't Turks in Europe, but Turkish peasants in Europe".

2) No one national group clearly dominates, while European Muslims tend to be more homogeneous in origin - like Algerians and Moroccans in France (so overall less incentive for integration).

3) Apart from Dearborn (Michigan), there is no area in US where Muslims would be particularly concentrated (more incentive for integration).

4) There is some evidence that highly unionized economies make it harder for immigrants to find jobs (but I don't like that evidence so I put it last).

I don't know how much of all this applies to Australia.

[Rugoz]

Just google "German school system discrimination", and enjoy the countless number of links related to topic ranging from peer reviewed academic journals to NGO reports, from Der spiegel articles to teacher testimonies, and many more.

Actually it's quite the opposite. Empirical evidence for Switzerland suggests that schools do not discriminate (here in German), yet there are quite extreme differences in educational attainment between different immigrant kids. For example German kids are twice as likely to go to gymnasium than Swiss kids. The worst performing are Macedonian kids from which basically zero percentage go to gymnasiums (Portuguese kids are second worst). Turkish kids don't do that bad actually, they're only ~4x times less likely to visit gymnasiums than Swiss kids (note that Turks in Switzerland have largely a different background than Turks in Germany).

Anyway, I would have to look up evidence for Germany, but I doubt it's much different. I suggest you present your evidence.

Well, presence of many Erdogan supporters among Turks does not automatically make me an Erdogan supporter, just like spotting a German doesn't automatically mean spotting a Nazi. Our individual ideologies, words and deeds define what we are as persons. And, I do not appreciate the dimwitted service of German and Dutch governments to Erdogan. That is all I said. I don't know what the hell you are objecting?

I never said you are an Erdogan supporter, but clearly a majority or close to a majority of Turks have voted for Erdogan again as again despite his authoritarian tendencies. That makes Turkish mentality a problem im my eyes. You seem to exhibit some of the same victim mentality.

[Vanasalus]

Sorry of delayed response guys. Busy days in the office.

@Orestes

There are so many variables affecting the success or failure of immigration policies. Socioeconomic background of the new immigrants is of course one. However, if the topic of discussion is the integration of Turkish immigrants, Turkish immigration to Europe has stopped many decades earlier. Is it fair to blame those "Anatolian peasants", unqualified, uneducated workforce once in demand in post-war Europe 40-50 years ago. If those immigrants' children and even grandchildren who were born, raised and educated in Europe are still not fully integrated, is it because of their peasant grandparents? Or something else.

Going back to American example... Integration of an immigrant in immigrant-friendly and cosmopolitan parts of the country, like my state of NJ, or NYC, or California, etc, is not an issue at all. I as a immigrant did not have any difficulty to blend in. Some of my Turkish friends who landed on Midwest, or deep south were not as lucky as me because of local people's attitude.

So, locals attitude towards immigration is also very important parameter to consider.

One last note... Assimilation or integration... What people understand out of these terms is also an important parameter determining the success or failure.

Here in NJ, I visit a Chinese car mechanic who speaks an English that I don't understand at all. Once a week I go to a Korean farmers market and all labels are bilingual (Korean with big fonts, English with small fonts). I hear at least 4-5 different languages spoken around me every single day. I see Indian elders doing their leisurely afternoon walks wearing a linen wrapped around their body. Yet nobody is complaining about the lack of integration. Because, the society is integrated already regardless of cultural differences, which tend to disappear in due course of time by itself.

Yet, in Europe, say in France, one's refrain from pork can be perceived as an integration issue. And the net result is a total failure.

What I am trying to say is if you really would like to see integration/assimilation of immigrants, there are several success formulas around that you can copy or build upon. There is no need to invent things which have been already invented.

And the integration formula that you push in most of Europe is doomed to fail, because its principal aim is not integration, but segregation.



@Rugoz

I don't know anything about Swiss system. What I talked about was about German system. And I talked about it based on veritable information and statistics around. I stand by what I said.

And my educational background as a scientist forbids me to accept a dogmatic explanation like "Swiss system is like this. German system should not be different. Therefore, case closed."

As for the victim mentality... We Turks can be many things, play many roles, yet playing the victim is not a strong card in our cultural repertoire.