UK sending Syrians back to countries where they were beaten and abused - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

Moderator: PoFo Today's News Mods

#14784955
The Guardian wrote:UK sending Syrians back to countries where they were beaten and abused
Refugees tell of being held in cages and even tortured in European countries including Hungary and Romania
wael.jpg
wael.jpg (56.06 KiB) Viewed 1294 times

Britain is using EU rules to send asylum seekers from Syria and other countries back to eastern European states where they were beaten, incarcerated and abused, the Guardian has learned.

Migrant rights groups and lawyers say the Home Office is using the rules to send people back to “police brutality, detention and beatings” in several European countries.

The Guardian has spoken to refugees who were subjected to assaults as they travelled through Europe. The men tell of being held in “cages” in Hungary, waterboarded and handcuffed to beds by detention centre guards in Romania and beaten in Bulgaria.

They now face being returned to those countries as, under the so-called Dublin law, asylum seekers are supposed to apply in their first EU country of entry.

In 2015 more than 80,000 requests were made by EU countries for another government to take back an asylum seeker. The UK made 3,500 of these requests to countries around Europe, including Bulgaria, Romania, Italy and Hungary.

The Home Office claims it should be entitled to assume that any EU country will treat asylum seekers properly.

The charity Migrant Voice has collected testimony from several refugees who are fighting removal from the UK to other European countries. Nazek Ramadan, the director of the charity, said the men had been left traumatised by their journey and their subsequent treatment in the UK.

I will kill myself rather than go back. 'Dawoud'
“We know there are hundreds of Syrians in the UK who have fingerprints in other European countries,” said Ramadan. “Many no longer report to the Home Office because they are afraid of being detained and deported away from their family in the UK. Those who have been forcibly removed often end up destitute.

“These are people who were abused in their home country, sometimes jailed by the regime there. Then they were imprisoned again in Europe. They feel that they are still living in a war zone, moving from one arrest and detention to another.”

The law firm Duncan Lewis recently won a key case preventing forced removals back to Hungary because of the risk that people might be forced from there back to their country of origin.

The firm is also challenging removals to Bulgaria because of what the UN refugee agency has described as “substandard” conditions there. A test case on whether Bulgaria is a safe country to send people back to is due to be heard by the court of appeal in November.

The situation could get even more complex as an EU ban on sending asylum seekers back to Greece is due to be lifted on Wednesday after a six-year moratorium.

Krisha Prathepan, of Duncan Lewis, said: “We intend to challenge any resumption of returns to Greece, as that country’s asylum system remains dysfunctional and the risk of refugees being returned from Greece to the very countries in which they faced persecution remains as high as ever.”

The Home Office says it has no immediate plans to send refugees back to Greece, but is following European guidelines.

“We have no current plans to resume Dublin returns to Greece,” a spokesperson said, citing among other reasons “the reception conditions in the country”.

She added: “In April 2016, the high court ruled that transfer to Bulgaria under the Dublin regulation would not breach the European Convention on Human Rights. If there is evidence that Bulgaria is responsible for an asylum application, we will seek to transfer the application.”

Mohammad Nadi Ismail, a former Syrian navy captain, entered Europe via Bulgaria and Hungary, hoping to join his uncle and brother in Britain.

In Bulgaria he was detained, beaten and humiliated. “They stripped us and made us stand in a row all naked. We had to bend over in a long line. Then they hit us on our private parts with truncheons.

“They would wake us at night after they had been playing cards and drinking. Then they would come and hit us or kick us with their boots or truncheons.”

One day he was released and took his chance to leave, walking for days to reach Hungary.

But in Hungary he was locked up again. “They took us to a courtyard of a big building where there were five or six cages, about 8ft [2.4 metres] square. Most of the people were African. Some of them had been in there for four or five days. Luckily we Syrians were allowed out after one night and I headed for the UK.”

In the UK Ismail met up with the family he hadn’t seen for three years and applied for asylum immediately.

Then a letter came, saying his fingerprints had been found in Bulgaria and he would be returned. After a month in detention he now reports every two weeks, waiting and hoping that the UK will let him stay.

“I will not go back to Bulgaria. I still have hope that I can stay here legally and rebuild my life with my family who have always supported me,” he said.

Dawoud (not his real name) was 28 when he fled Iran after his political activities had made him an enemy of the government. His brother and parents made it to the UK and were given refugee status.

When he was told by border guards that he was in Romania he had no idea what that meant. “I had never even heard of this country,” he said. He was put in a camp where “water dripped through the electrics – we were electrocuted often. Children and families screamed. We lived in fear of the wild dogs who circled the camp, attacking and biting us. We were given no food; we had to go through bins in the town nearby for scraps.”

He escaped once, to the Netherlands, but was sent back.

“I experienced several beatings, on all parts of the body. There were people covered in blood and they were refused medical help. They even waterboarded me. I thought I would die.”

Finally he managed to reach his mother, father and brother in the UK. For two years he has lived in hiding, too scared to apply for asylum for fear of being sent back to Romania. But a few months ago he finally reported to the Home Office. A letter informed him that a request had been made to Romania to take him back.

Dawoud shakes as he talks about his fear of removal, saying: “When I hear people speak Romanian in the street it brings back my trauma. I once fell to the ground shaking just hearing someone speak. I will kill myself rather than go back.”

Wael travelled by sea to Italy and was detained on arrival in Sicily. “They hit us with their fists and sticks in order to make us give our fingerprints. Then they let us go. They gave us nothing, no accommodation, just told us: ‘Go where you like.’ So many Syrians were sleeping in the streets.”

When he reached the UK he was detained for two months before friends helped him get bail. A year and a half later, when reporting at the Home Office, he was detained again and booked on to a plane to Italy.

He refused to go and a solicitor got him out on bail. His appeal is due to be heard later this year. “I left Syria to avoid jail and detention and here I have been locked up twice,” he said. “I can’t understand it. Why can’t they look at me with some humanity? I am mentally so tired. My children call me from Syria but I can’t speak to them any more. It is too painful.”

The Guardian
#14785244
Rugoz wrote:Eh sorry but some of this stuff sounds completely made up. Electrocutions and waterboarding? Yeah...right. :roll:


This. I can believe Eastern European nations were hostile in terms of their attitudes, but violent? No, I don't think so. And certainly not state sponsored violence. I also find it interesting that noemon's outrage seems to be focused on the UK for wanting to return illegal immigrants rather than the Eastern Europeans for allegedly torturing them.

Send them back. Send them back all the quicker for being such damned liars.
#14785347
This. I can believe Eastern European nations were hostile in terms of their attitudes, but violent? No, I don't think so. And certainly not state sponsored violence. I also find it interesting that noemon's outrage seems to be focused on the UK for wanting to return illegal immigrants rather than the Eastern Europeans for allegedly torturing them.

Why do you find this so difficult to believe? In nations such as the UK, we have grown accustomed to having things called "human rights", and we take them for granted. We forget that having the right not to be beaten or mistreated by the police is actually highly unusual by global standards. Eastern Europe is not like Western or Central Europe; it's much more backwards in economic, social and political terms. I find these stories to be very credible. The fact that they are members of the EU doesn't change the social reality of these nations.
#14785351
Thompson_NCL wrote:This. I can believe Eastern European nations were hostile in terms of their attitudes, but violent? No, I don't think so. And certainly not state sponsored violence.


I think beatings etc. are not implausible.

But electrocution and waterboarding is torture. It's not something you use on lowly refugees and not trivial to do properly, i.e. without killing the subject or leaving marks.

The claims of torture put into question his whole story if you ask me.
#14785355
The claims of torture put into question his whole story if you ask me.

Bored Eastern European guards and prisoners who won't lodge an official complaint? Yep, I can easily believe they were tortured.
#14785373
Potemkin wrote:Bored Eastern European guards and prisoners who won't lodge an official complaint? Yep, I can easily believe they were tortured.


So basically Romanian guards were waterboarding refugees for fun? Come on.

The problem is refugees are known for making up stories like that. Inhumane treatment is the only reason that allows them to stay. I don't blame them, I'd do the same.
#14785375
Potemkin, let's be honest, you will believe most things that sound dark enough.

But in this case it actually is plausible that they were tortured, given the standards of police behaviour in this part of the world, including electro-torture.

In the last fifteen years, investigators have documented police using electroshock in Russia, Poland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Bulgaria, Moldova, Georgia, Uzbekistan, and the Ukraine.95 The combination of gas mask, beating, and electroshock is so characteristically East European that it might be called Slavic modern. Several countries have adopted this style, including Lithuania, Latvia, Moldova, Georgia, Uzbekistan, and Ukraine.

Source

There have been several allegations of torture since 1990. Instances of ill-treatment of detainees by the police are frequently reported, and according to the survey of a Romanian human rights organisation, one in three prisoners complained about severe beatings in police lock-ups.12 The perpetrators are commonly [missing text] the police who are alleged to use physical violence, mainly beatings but in some instances also electric shocks, mainly to extract confessions or obtain information.

Source

So there you go. Definitely not impossible IMO.
#14785446
Eastern Europe is not like the UK. It is a backwards place. It was only Moscow's guiding hand that kept their governments somewhat modern and civilised. Now they are left without anyone to guide them they are regressing back to the natural state of all places beyond the river Oder. Why do people find it so hard to believe? That is what the world out there is like.

Having said that it makes no difference who they tortured. If the UK had to give a home to everyone from a country worse than the UK that would mean every citizen on earth would have the right to come here. That is not possible and middle class people need to stop pretending that it is.
#14785456
I think the more pertinent question is why we are/ever were in an economic and political union with countries that treat refugees in this manner.

Of course, it is the epitome of paternalist middle class Guardian-readerism to think that the UK is the "real villain" in this, rather than the countries actually doing the beating and torturing. Forgive them, for they know not what they do. :roll:
#14785463
Heisenberg wrote:I think the more pertinent question is why we are/ever were in an economic and political union with countries that treat refugees in this manner.


They provided lots of slave labour... opps I mean economic migrants for western europe to allow our idle rich to more efficiently exploit people and make millions without working themselves. British workers annoyingly want to have decent pay and conditions whereas foreigners will put up with anything so they would rather have the foreigners working and put the British workers on the dole until their spirits are broke and they will work for nothing too.
#14785573
Decky wrote:Eastern Europe is not like the UK. It is a backwards place. It was only Moscow's guiding hand that kept their governments somewhat modern and civilised. Now they are left without anyone to guide them they are regressing back to the natural state of all places beyond the river Oder. Why do people find it so hard to believe? That is what the world out there is like.


It rather was Moscow that took us back there. Moscow does that to people.

The beautiful things that could have been ...

Image

(Shuysky Tribute)

Let me guess, those were Hamas fighters like the o[…]

My take from this discussion is that @QatzelOk […]

@FiveofSwords What a professor of biological […]

Russia-Ukraine War 2022

Hopefully, we will all get what we deserve. Frie[…]