[Godstud]

QFT Zagadka. *LIKE*

[Decky]

I wonder if we will see some pathetic back peddling from all the other bomb lovers too. The United States should be sanctioned for supporting ISIS by bombing the only people actually fighting them.

[Godstud]

A $314 million bomb. I hear it killed about 34 baddies. I am sure that many a terrorist would be happy to die, having cost the USA over $9 million...

[Ter]

A $314 million bomb. I hear it killed about 34 baddies. I am sure that many a terrorist would be happy to die, having cost the USA over $9 million...

Cost 16 million
Cave-dwelling cockroaches exterminated : 94 and counting
civilian casualties : zero

[Zagadka]

Well, one, I am completely capable of being wrong and changing my opinions. Two, I would still be happy to remove Assad. I just think that there are rules, laws, and diplomacy that need to be maintained. Because I support innocence until a guilty conviction does not mean I support the crime.

[Godstud]

Regardless, that's money better spent on something else, instead of making more enemies.

Each person killed is just a relative of someone else.

You're callous disregard for human life makes you very American Ter. Good job.

[Beren]

Regardless, that's money better spent on something else, instead of making more enemies.

Each person killed is just a relative of someone else.

You're callous disregard for human life makes you very American Ter. Good job.

I think Americans are divided on this. However, would you rather prefer trying Christianity on those cavemen? They just tested a weapon on them, by the way, they won't do it on a regular basis I guess.

[Ter]

You're callous disregard for human life makes you very American Ter. Good job.

Monsters who burn people alive, drown them alive, use captives as sex slaves, behead hostages and prisoners, convince children to be suicide bombers, sorry, I do not consider those cockroaches human.

You on the other hand do not leave any occasion unused to defend them and verbally attack anyone who wishes to fight those monsters.

How many times are you going to mention Bisonette as a Christian terrorist to compare with the many hundreds of Islamic terrorists ? There just is no equivalence at all.
Maybe you could mention that one Israeli Jew who attacked a mosque so we should stop mentioning the many terrorist atrocities commited by the Arabs against the Israelis?

[anasawad]

@Ter
Congrats. Now take all of the things you mentioned, multiply it by a thousands, and you just got an accurate description of core western nations' armies and their behaviors in the past couple of 100 years.
And for the "Atrocities committed against the Israelis". Really ? The Arabs are the ones committing atrocities against the Israelis ? Not the other way around ?

[Zionist Nationalist]

Not all human lives are important.

inferior countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan are an example that the less people the better

[Suntzu]

Don't forget Somalia!

[anasawad]

This is a self-destructive principle.
If not all human lives are important, then you, by being human also can be considered not important.
Which means that by using that logic, you are directly justifying anything to be done not only by you but also against you.

So why do you complain about terrorism if you believe that ? Because in this sense, the lives of Israelis or Americans or anyone is also equally unimportant thus its ok to kill them as well.

[Igor Antunov]

It's a power struggle in it's purest, most practical sense. In that regard seeking to destroy your ideological opponents is valid, because somebody will eventually triumph. My money is on the islamists long term. The west is a sad embarrassment, but at least we have secular alternatives so we won't be saddled by sharia until the end of time. Russia/China can stall that shit in its tracks.

[Ter]

@Ter
Congrats. Now take all of the things you mentioned, multiply it by a thousands, and you just got an accurate description of core western nations' armies and their behaviors in the past couple of 100 years.
And for the "Atrocities committed against the Israelis". Really ? The Arabs are the ones committing atrocities against the Israelis ? Not the other way around ?

Earlier you said you consider the ISIS terrorists criminals.
So there is no need to lament their demise, yes?

There have been a lot of wars with a lot of civilians dead, it is not just the West that is the culprit. Iran-Iraq war comes to mind, the Sri Lankan civil war, the Cambodian genocide, the million Chinese killed in Indonesia in 1964, the 3 million Bengalis killed by Pakistan in 1971, and so on, and so forth. Your brush is too coarse to accuse the West.

As for Arabs attacking Israelis yes, of course they do. Who is stabbing civilians in the streets? Who is blowing up civilians in buses ? Who is shooting rockets and mortars over the border into civilian areas in Israel ?
I know you will just call that "resistance to the occupation", but that is just your bias against my bias. In any case, civilians are targetted. Arabs including kids get harmed when they attack Israelis with stones, knives or worse. If they don't attack, they won't get hurt. They will never chase the Israelis out of Israel so it is a pretty futile exercise.

[Godstud]

How many times are you going to mention Bisonette as a Christian terrorist to compare with the many hundreds of Islamic terrorists ? There just is no equivalence at all.

False equivalance?

No one knows with certainty how many people have been killed and wounded in Iraq since the 2003 United States invasion. However, we know that approximately 165,000 civilians have died from direct war related violence caused by the US, its allies, the Iraqi military and police, and opposition forces from the time of the invasion through April 2015. The violent deaths of Iraqi civilians have occurred through aerial bombing, shelling, gunshots, suicide attacks, and fires started by bombing.
http://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/cost ... ians/iraqi

Now tell me about the peaceful USA.

Shall I also count the drone killings of innocent people? That's only a few thousand but USA is the largest terrorist exporter in the world.

A new analysis of the data available to the public about drone strikes, conducted by the human-rights group Reprieve, indicates that even when operators target specific individuals – the most focused effort of what Barack Obama calls “targeted killing” – they kill vastly more people than their targets, often needing to strike multiple times. Attempts to kill 41 men resulted in the deaths of an estimated 1,147 people, as of 24 November.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ng/473541/

Sorry, Islamic terrorism is just kiddie stuff compared to the USA. You support these continued atrocities because you are blinded by your faith in USA as some sort of principled Christian nation.

[anasawad]

@Ter
I do consider ISIS criminals and should be killed. But you're not arguing for the death of ISIS militants alone, you're arguing for destroying entire areas and killing people indiscriminately just for the chance of killing ISIS or such groups.
So by that logic, just like others who support it just simply more open about it. You're justifying the actions of groups like ISIS because you both follow the same logic, being that as long as the ends is achieved, casualties on the way don't matter. And ofcourse then claim the high horse of civilization as if you're acting on it.

For larger conflicts, yes there were many conflicts around the world and countless many died. Something bad happening frequently does not make it acceptable or okay.
So when you say; look, there are people doing all these bad things to civillians and they happened to be Muslims, then all Muslims must be killed or destroyed for it. Then the exact same case can be made against western nations, and so on to all nations in general. And the western core nations armies tend to excel at doing horrible things all around so the case is strongest against them.

For Israel topic. Who is bombing entire areas to the ground ? who is killing thousands of people ? who is cutting off supplies and holding millions in open air concentration zones ?
Who is using internationally illegal weapons against civillians ?
'm sure you know the answer to that right ?
And are you seriously arguing that basically Israel can just colonize the palestinians and kick them out of their homes and its all ok because Israel is just stronger and resistance is futile ?
If thats what you're saying, then why is it bad if it happened the other way around With the Israelis being kicked out of their homes ? If one way its bad, then its bad the other way.
But if you say its not and its ok for Israel to do that to the Palestinians. Then its entirely acceptable for others and come say its ok for the Arabs or others to do that to the Israelis.
And go ahead and do it.

I will again, for the 100th time state one simple fact. You can not oppress a group of people for ever. At one point you'll grow weak, and the table will go the other way around.
So, if you want to be safe when you're in weakness, you should make others safe in your strength. Thats just how the world works, and Israel is no exception. All nations will reach its height then start going back down.
And if you don't know that, then you have got lots and lots of history to read.

[Godstud]

I do consider ISIS criminals and should be killed. But you're not arguing for the death of ISIS militants alone, you're arguing for destroying entire areas and killing people indiscriminately just for the chance of killing ISIS or such groups.

QFT. Ter seems OK with indiscriminate killings, as long as they're Muslim.

[Ter]

QFT. Ter seems OK with indiscriminate killings, as long as they're Muslim.

As long as they are terrorists. Not only if they are Muslim.
It is shameful of you and anasawad to put words in my mouth which I have never said.
There were zero civilian casualties when Americans dropped the monster bomb on the caves where Isis terrorists were hiding.

Where exactly did I say that indiscriminate killing of civilians is justified ?


@anasawad
as I said, it is your bias against mine.
As a Muslim, you will automatically identify with the Arabs against the Israelis.
There are plenty of arguments for and against your view of Israel, this thread is not the place to repeat them again.

[anasawad]

@Ter
This is just an example of the topic.
The argument is about civilians being killed indiscriminately. And you're arguing for justifying it as long as it achieves an end.
Your justification for this view is simply because you can. Well, Why is it bad if the same thing is done against your people when they're in weakness ?
And if terrorism is bad for killing civilians, then obviously the fight back is not to kill civilians. But if you're ok with killing civilians, then terrorism is also acceptable by your own logic.
Simply it becomes of whos doing the killing not the killing as an action it self.


For where did you say it. Just look at all your posts discussing drone and air strikes and their casualties. You're knee high in justifying indiscriminate killing of civilians.

[Zagadka]

Ter never said he'd want killing civilians indiscriminately. He specifically said enemy combatants (to use Bush terms).