[Drlee]

BTW: when young people wake-up and realize that the Democratic Party and Obama left them with a monstrous debt to repay, they are going to turn in droves to the Republican Party and conservative values.

I recommend you google "liberal". Or you can call Sean Hannity and ask him.

[Eamonor]

I prefer to think of them as mostly 'useful idiots' and keep the stronger labels for those who might be behind them.

Fair enough. I may have used a bit of truthful hyperbole there

[Hong Wu]

Give us some examples.

President Obama was the least liberal democratic president since 1950.

Get off of Fox News and take a political science class.



What older generations understand that young people don't is that young people are almost always more progressive than their elders. And you think this is something new?

AS I HAVE ALREADY SAID BUT YOU IGNORED:


The last is WHY they may not get much more moderate as they age. They are facing a bleak future. But they are still kids.

In the primaries people under 30 voted for Sanders two to one over Trump and Clinton combined. Unfortunately, like the children they are, when their candidate did not win they stayed home in big numbers. That said. Trump took 38% of the youth vote in the election.

I sincerely hope that young people do take to the streets and take over the government. They are the only hope for our system. The Republicans are systematically dismantling our constitutional protections in favor of their corporate masters.

I think that historically, communism only catches on when there's a physical crisis or it's intermediate aftermath. A lack of jobs is a sign of there not being vital work to do, it's gradual, there will be no large scale communist uprising in America of all places because those conditions will never sufficiently materialize.

[Hong Wu]

I think to clarify my last post a bit, Occupy Wall Street had no demands because the west is ideologically in a Catch-22. There are no jobs because most people would rather rely upon machined products, yet the crisis related to no jobs is due in large part to this reliance they have upon the same system that they criticize.

Communism is one possible answer but people aren't convinced anymore that it will work so I don't see it even being tried.

The only ultimate cure for the west is a spiritual reorientation involving it's fundamental values and expectations. The alt-right is prepared to attempt this, leftists getting routed for punching people in the streets are not! And I don't think the revolution will be televised.

All Trump is guilty of is trying to give people what they say they want. This infuriates impotent intellectuals who think they know better and would centrally plan everything, no one cares. You guys lost the election, called Kansas a plebiscite immediately and lost, called Georgia a plebiscite and lost and you are the ones with the media and the money. Something very important is undergoing a change that you can't explain by quoting Lenin.

[quetzalcoatl]

I hope you realize that political "liberalism" in the US has morphed into the far left wing to a large degree.

True liberalism hardly exists any longer in the political arena. Many of today's so-called liberals despise our Constitution to the point of where they now have to be classified as far left wing, sometimes even anarchists such as those on display at Berkeley, repressing free speech and rioting.

Leaving aside true Scotsmen arguments, this does bring up a pertinent question. What (if anything) does it mean to be 'left'?

As far as I can observe, 'left' has no current operational meaning, at least in the US. The definition of what is 'left' is under control of people who are not-left, mostly those on the hard right (the Wreck-it Steve crew) and those on the center-right (FIRE-Station Democrats).

(This is quite predictable, an ongoing project of the neoliberal oligarchy.)

The intended effect is prune away all forms of political thught until we are left with what is acceptable for the continuation of the status quo. The universe of discourse is constricted to the hotly-debated narratives of alt-right memesters versus neolib Dems. They now feel quite free to tell the 'left' what it is, what it believes, and who qualifies. In this universe, Obama is a Marxist, and Trump is a populist. In language that would have been current a century ago, today's politics has two remaining wings: a radical right and a conservative right. This amounts to an intellectual implosion - from this black hole of political debate no light, meaning, or understanding may escape.

This is in no way accidental. The destruction of meaning is a necessary tool of political control. It is abetted by the corporate media (yes, Donald, it's fake news and it always has been). At this point, it has become nearly impossible to escape from this zone of meaning destruction. You cannot propose what you cannot think about, and people will not hear what they do not comprehend.

THE ZONE OF MEANING DESTRUCTION


The available political space is now so constricted that even Teddy Roosevelt reformism is beyond the pale. The project of 'saving' capitalism initiated by the Roosevelts is now dead. Forgive them, Lord, they know not what they do. I think it was JFK who said "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

It will be...interesting...to see how this exercise in arrogance turns out.

[Drlee]

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

And all God's chillen' said, AMEN.

I think there is a misconception of what a "violent" revolution might look like. It would not take major battles between the Army and the people to accomplish. All it might take is a voter revolution spurred by some heinous acts on either or both sides.

I think Trump's election is tantamount to a revolution. Sadly, having won, it is impotent to move.

Imagine as an example, a movement behind someone like Sanders. But instead of Sanders allying himself with the Democratic party he runs as an independent and is supported by widespread independent candidates running for the Senate and the House. (Or for that matter a ton of state and local offices.)

This kind of voter revolt could very well overturn the two party system, which, as we all know, would be a real game changer. Imagine the US government behaving like a parliamentary system.

Yes you say, but the dems and republicans would ally to thwart the more onerous of progressive ideas. Perhaps. But the net effect still would be to move the central government very much further to the left.

Of course there could be a more repressive fascist movement as the oligarchs try to maintain power. I would never rule that out. There are some monumentally stupid people on the right; totin' guns and quotin' televangelists. I suspect though that once the right realizes that they have been sold down the river, they will be inclined to look to a Sanders like figure pretty favorably.

I make this observation. It looks like O'Reilly may be out at Fox News. This is a far more profound thing than the firing of a pundit. It is the deposing of the most powerful voice on cable news and an icon for the far right movement. And who deposed him? Frightened oligarchs. Murdoc, et all. The center is flexing its muscles in a big way these days and business is scared shitless that they backed the wrong horse. Advertisers are fleeing pell-mell from controversy. They know all about the electoral college but money is made with the popular vote.

[The Immortal Goon]

You guys lost the election, called Kansas a plebiscite immediately and lost, called Georgia a plebiscite and lost and you are the ones with the media and the money. Something very important is undergoing a change that you can't explain by quoting Lenin.

I have no idea what Democrat you think is, "quoting Lenin." Or what Leninist is the one, "with the media and the money."

I suspect that if you ever actually ran into a leftist your head would explode.

As far as I can observe, 'left' has no current operational meaning, at least in the US. The definition of what is 'left' is under control of people who are not-left, mostly those on the hard right (the Wreck-it Steve crew) and those on the center-right (FIRE-Station Democrats).

(This is quite predictable, an ongoing project of the neoliberal oligarchy.)

The intended effect is prune away all forms of political thught until we are left with what is acceptable for the continuation of the status quo. The universe of discourse is constricted to the hotly-debated narratives of alt-right memesters versus neolib Dems. They now feel quite free to tell the 'left' what it is, what it believes, and who qualifies. In this universe, Obama is a Marxist, and Trump is a populist. In language that would have been current a century ago, today's politics has two remaining wings: a radical right and a conservative right. This amounts to an intellectual implosion - from this black hole of political debate no light, meaning, or understanding may escape.

This is in no way accidental. The destruction of meaning is a necessary tool of political control. It is abetted by the corporate media (yes, Donald, it's fake news and it always has been). At this point, it has become nearly impossible to escape from this zone of meaning destruction. You cannot propose what you cannot think about, and people will not hear what they do not comprehend.

The available political space is now so constricted that even Teddy Roosevelt reformism is beyond the pale. The project of 'saving' capitalism initiated by the Roosevelts is now dead. Forgive them, Lord, they know not what they do. I think it was JFK who said "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

It will be...interesting...to see how this exercise in arrogance turns out.

This is one of the best posts I've read in a while. And it's correct. There is something rather nightmarish about the way that the idea of the left has become impossible for some people to consider. One is reminded of another socialist writing about the issue:

The purpose of Newspeak was not only to provide a medium of expression for the world-view and mental habits proper to the devotees of Ingsoc, but to make all other modes of thought impossible. It was intended that when Newspeak had been adopted once and for all and Oldspeak forgotten, a heretical thought — that is, a thought diverging from the principles of Ingsoc — should be literally unthinkable, at least so far as thought is dependent on words. Its vocabulary was so constructed as to give exact and often very subtle expression to every meaning that a Party member could properly wish to express, while excluding all other meanings and also the possibility of arriving at them by indirect methods. This was done partly by the invention of new words, but chiefly by eliminating undesirable words and by stripping such words as remained of unorthodox meanings, and so far as possible of all secondary meanings whatever.

[ThirdTerm]

At the Berkeley protest, Nathan Damigo, a leader of a student white supremacist group, was in the spotlight. Damigo currently attends CSU Stanislaus as a Social Studies major. You would imagine a Hispanic person from his surname but Damigo identifies himself as white. Hispanic or Latino students make up 50% of the student body of CSU Stanislaus, which is also recognized as a Hispanic-Serving Institution (HSI). Berkeley has a long tradition of hosting radical left-wing groups since the 1960s.

[jakell]

It quite evidently was not a 'sucker punch'.

[KurtFF8]

Seems pretty clear that it was a sucker punch.

[Drlee]

Sucker punch on a woman? Sucker punch or not, all of the real men I know would cut off his balls for smacking a woman. But I guess that is just old fashioned. Tell you what though. That thug tried that shit in front of most of the soldiers I know and it would be the worst day in his life.

[The Immortal Goon]

There's no excuse for that. She looks like she doesn't even weigh a buck, and he not only punches her, but follows through while she's on the ground.

Though it seems clear to me it's defensive, even if we are to believe she was putting her hands up initially to harm him, be a man and take the hit. I've been at a concert before where a woman punched me in the face. It's not like it's pleasant, but I'm a grown ass man and there's no glory to be had in punching women or children.

[Hong Wu]

There's no excuse for that. She looks like she doesn't even weigh a buck, and he not only punches her, but follows through while she's on the ground.

Though it seems clear to me it's defensive, even if we are to believe she was putting her hands up initially to harm him, be a man and take the hit. I've been at a concert before where a woman punched me in the face. It's not like it's pleasant, but I'm a grown ass man and there's no glory to be had in punching women or children.

There is footage of the same guy shoving her while she's holding a bottle as a weapon, she was also wearing brass knuckles and said she was going there to attack people.

[Ter]

There is footage of the same guy shoving her while she's holding a bottle as a weapon, she was also wearing brass knuckles and said she was going there to attack people

Yes, in this case we have to be gender neutral.
She had the right to be beaten just like all the others.

(she could have stayed home and treated some man to good cooking and kinky sex but somehow she didn't look the type)

[Hong Wu]

There was no violence at the Auburn Antifa event because the police there didn't allow people to wear masks, so they didn't dare try anything. It's too bad that the Berkeley police are unlikely to emulate this common sense policy since the city is full of cucks who want someone else to stab people who disagree with them.

[jakell]

Sucker punch on a woman? Sucker punch or not, all of the real men I know would cut off his balls for smacking a woman. But I guess that is just old fashioned. Tell you what though. That thug tried that shit in front of most of the soldiers I know and it would be the worst day in his life.

Quite easy to cast her as some fragile femme using hindsight.

In the fray she looked like any other unisex dreadlocked antifa member. I'm pretty sure any 'soldier' would relate to what happens in a melee.
As being female is (retrospectively) considered to be important, perhaps she could reinforce this with her appearance, perhaps strongly so considering the circumstances. Maybe even use her brain to avoid getting involved in dangerous situations in the first place.

[Suntzu]

She is a porn star.

[The Immortal Goon]

There is footage of the same guy shoving her while she's holding a bottle as a weapon, she was also wearing brass knuckles and said she was going there to attack people.

Even if we are to assume that this is true, and we are to assume that the white supremacist had the best intentions, and we are to assume that he reacted out of instinct not knowing that they were in a position that negated the use of a weapon for her (she is too close and has her hands up in a defensive stance very quickly), it's still true the follow through after she's on the ground is completely unnecessary.

She is a porn star.

Does this grant her supestrength or something?

Further, having done cam work or a few one-offs or something hardly makes her a, "star."

Nor does it mean that she deserves to be punched.

I'm reminded a little of Kollentai's discussion of sex work:

The hypocritical morality of bourgeois society encourages prostitution by the structure of its exploitative economy, while at the same time mercilessly covering with contempt any girl or woman who is forced to take this path.

[Hong Wu]

Even if we are to assume that this is true, and we are to assume that the white supremacist had the best intentions, and we are to assume that he reacted out of instinct not knowing that they were in a position that negated the use of a weapon for her (she is too close and has her hands up in a defensive stance very quickly), it's still true the follow through after she's on the ground is completely unnecessary.

Here is the video. I do not see him punching her again when she's on the ground:

[jakell]

She is a porn star.

'Star' is probably a slight exaggeration, it remains to be seen what direction she will take with her new found fame, at present this seems to be the only motivational lever antifa have concerning their performance at the event, everything else reflects poorly upon them.

Hopefully she will learn something from all this, about how violence is not glamorous, about how he she is not invulnerable due to some magical SJW 'pussy power' and how antifa 'ninjas' will not look out for her. With all the attention though she may go the wrong way.
I mention this last to contrast with Lauren Southern who looked like a woman, was open and unaggressive (she's been in these situations before and knows how to act), and had a few guys constantly looking out for her rather than leave her vulnerable.

I came across a new podcaster female who has some intelligent things to say about this:

Here is the video. I do not see him punching her again when she's on the ground:

That's another piece of random nonsense to have emerged from out of the blue, like calling this a 'sucker punch'. (If Spencer's was a 'sucker punch' then this certainly isn't). Still, meme-making isn't about facts, it's about repetition, as seen in the video with this in the title above.