Battle of Berkeley Proves Modern Left's Black Flag Movement Is Failing - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14799115
MistyTiger wrote:Did anyone mention that UC Berkley cancelled Ann Coulter's visit to the campus? Well she calls it cancelled while UC says it's been postponed. But same difference, right?

I would not want to see that kind of person at my college either. Good for them for forbidding her to speak there. :)

I mentioned it somewhere. She responded by saying she would speak on her own, then Berkeley re-invited her.
#14799121
Zagadka wrote:I mentioned it somewhere. She responded by saying she would speak on her own, then Berkeley re-invited her.


I quite like how Coulter and other figures on the alt-lite/right (Coulter being the more mainstream of these) wasted very little time in denouncing Trump's recent behaviour re Syria. I'm seeing more intellectual honesty on that side of the fence nowadays.

If she is going to speak then there will very likely be trouble from antifa, just look how they reacted to Milo
#14799150
The Immortal Goon wrote:Seeing as how this was largely an out-of-state attempt by the right to have a pro-Trump rally in one of the more famously left-leaning areas of the country, would you be willing to admit that Nathan Damigo (the white supremacist felon that punched the girl) should bear the consequences of his actions, regardless of vagina or not—or is this another in a long line of the right portraying themselves as blubbering victims?

Because I still wouldn't hit a girl. But I'm hardly portraying her as some innocent bystander in this thing, nor is she. She and the rest of the Black Bloc were pretty open about their intentions. It seems to be only the right that is whining endlessly about what special snowflake victims they are, and how they deserve special treatment for the terror they were subjected to, and on and on and on and I can't imagine why you'd want to identify with so many insufferable losers and cry-babies.


I have no idea what you wrote because I stopped reading at "victim." Seriously, TIG, if you want a discussion, get off the victim narrative, because the only one blubbering right now is you.
#14799152
There was a time when we on the right thought of ourselves and ready to take responsibility for holding the moral high ground. That is sure over now. The right (and first among them the republican party) will embrace any neo-Nazi, thug, gun toting cracker and racist who shows up. In fact they actively court them.

The right crows about their moral positions on gay marriage, abortion and the mixture of church and state then whines like a little girl when some "liberal" disagrees with them. So they embrace any thug willing to act all badass.

Sorry Froellein. I do not condemn women to violence just because they want equality at work. Equal does not mean 'the same'. Only an ignoramus could conclude that the way to equality is to lower the bar for everyone. The idea is to raise the bar for everyone. Instead of worrying about what some left-wing girl is doing the right ought to be worrying about what it is doing.

But then that would require that they take personal responsibility for their lot and their actions and these wimps in wolf's clothing will never do that. President Trump figured that out way before the other candidates did and played right at it.

It is not your fault that you are poor and lack a job middle aged white man.....It is the Mex'cans what stole your job Bubba.
The lib'rals done gave your job to the Chinamen. But you just give those rich folks what little health care you got and they be right ready to give you a minimum wage job.


The abject stupidity shown by so many on the right is a national disgrace. The sad truth is that Trump is the only moderate in power these days. Y'all better hope he keeps the lid on the republicans in congress.

Make no mistake about this. Trump is not a conservative. He is not a liberal. He is a populist. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Left to their own devices the congress and senate would destroy the middle class once and for all in the service of their corporate masters. They may do it with him. They are beginning to see the light however. They are beginning to hear from the majority and they are not liking what they are hearing. Let's see if they can wake up.
#14799174
Frollein wrote:I have no idea what you wrote because I stopped reading at "victim."


You should be able to still answer the question:

Seeing as how this was largely an out-of-state attempt by the right to have a pro-Trump rally in one of the more famously left-leaning areas of the country, would you be willing to admit that Nathan Damigo (the white supremacist felon that punched the girl) should bear the consequences of his actions[?]


Frollein wrote:Seriously, TIG, if you want a discussion, get off the victim narrative, because the only one blubbering right now is you.


You'll note that I've fully held the girl responsible for her actions, and have dared to suggest that Damigo might not be an innocent victim.

But you know that.

I'm guessing you just found an excuse not to address the issue. And so it will continue: The right-wingers will sob through tear-stained eyes; I'll point out that they're acting like professional victims; and then Frollein will come out of the woodwork, demand I stop pointing out that they're acting like victims, and continue to fail to address any culpability the right may have ever had.
#14799176
The Immortal Goon wrote:




You'll note that I've fully held the girl responsible for her actions, and have dared to suggest that Damigo might not be an innocent victim.

But you know that.

I'm guessing you just found an excuse not to address the issue. And so it will continue: The right-wingers will sob through tear-stained eyes; I'll point out that they're acting like professional victims; and then Frollein will come out of the woodwork, demand I stop pointing out that they're acting like victims, and continue to fail to address any culpability the right may have ever had.


Barely any of the output of the non-antifa side of this is either lionizing Damigo, nor presenting him (or themselves) as a victim, in fact they seem to regard it as a sideshow.

This victim narrative seems to be entirely yours, made all the more unusual by its repetition.
#14799181
Jakell wrote:Barely any of the output of the non-antifa side of this is either lionizing Damigo


Not that I need to recap this, but this whole narrative started in this thread when Hong Wu accused me of "white knighting for someone who said she was going to other people's rally to hurt them." And that this was too much for him, so he needed to leave.

I pointed out that this is a dumb narrative as, clearly, both sides were there to escalate. And it's insincere to pretend that Damigo was just minding his business when this occurred. I then pointed out that his insistence on doing so played into victim-mongering. I also said that I wouldn't hit a girl, even if it was old fashioned.

Frollein disagreed with this, saying that she should have to deal with the consequences of her actions—implicitly denying that Damigo also has to deal with the consequences of his actions.

Then I sum everything up above.

jakell wrote:nor presenting him (or themselves) as a victim


I am fully aware that they do not see that by painting themselves as these innocent victims of circumstance they don't realize that what they're saying is that they are innocent victims of circumstance. I'm not exactly sure what they're trying to convey if not an implicit victim narrative.

And they might not know it. This is an old tactic that a lot of people have used, Goebbels notably, to go to a district that is against you, march, and then look around stunned that people have opposed you! Something must be done to stop this lawlessness! And to do that, you need to make yourself a victim.

This is not the tactic used by the girl or the Black Bloc, who have been more than forward about their intentions.
#14799182
The Immortal Goon wrote:...I am fully aware that they do not see that by painting themselves as these innocent victims of circumstance they don't realize that what they're saying is that they are innocent victims of circumstance. I'm not exactly sure what they're trying to convey if not an implicit victim narrative...


You are overthinking this, and probably being a bit over-imaginative. the non-antifa side are not trying to create a narrative because they don't need to, most of the video footage speaks for itself and doesn't need a massive amount of interpretation or spin, just some commentary.
Contrast this to the subdued output from the other side, which is not surprising.

Putting aside the people at the event, some unlikely heroes have emerged for this, and this is the 4chan sleuths who have managed to identify the masked ninja padlock attacker, and I was wrong.. it was a professor after all. It seems he is being charged now, but I may be being premature. Sargon again:

#14799185
stephen50right wrote:We all know that the left despises our First and Second Amendments.

The left actually agrees with free speech and owning guns, just as long as they agree with the speech and only they own the guns.


Are these guys payed for their "activism", or are they just thugs and useful brainwashed idiots?
#14799190
jakell wrote:You are overthinking this, and probably being a bit over-imaginative. the non-antifa side are not trying to create a narrative because they don't need to, most of the video footage speaks for itself and doesn't need a massive amount of interpretation or spin, just some commentary.


Apparently it does, as clearly holding a pro-Trump march in Berkley California was meant to be provocative. If they had decided to have the march in rural Kentucky, then the narrative would be completely different. Having it in Berkley and having the event itself to be videoed was meant to increase tensions and draw a violent reaction if possible.

This is exactly the same motivation that the antifa had, but they're willing to admit it. The rightests seem to be unwilling to admit this. The reason why, it seems logical enough, is so that they can present themselves as victims of the antifa.
#14799196
The Immortal Goon wrote:Apparently it does, as clearly holding a pro-Trump march in Berkley California was meant to be provocative. If they had decided to have the march in rural Kentucky, then the narrative would be completely different. Having it in Berkley and having the event itself to be videoed was meant to increase tensions and draw a violent reaction if possible.

This is exactly the same motivation that the antifa had, but they're willing to admit it. The rightests seem to be unwilling to admit this. The reason why, it seems logical enough, is so that they can present themselves as victims of the antifa.


So standing up for the right of free speech, you consider provocative? Words cannot describe the repugnance of your pathetic comment.

The difference in our sides is my side wishes to protect free speech. Your side wishes to squash free speech, and you know it.

The old saying is, "I do not agree with a word you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it." I would defend to the death the right of a leftist to speak freely in America. The big problem with you and your side is they do not wish to extend to me and my side the same courtesy.
#14799202
Antifa are mainly an annoyance to these people, and to claim they are central to their thoughts is a bit of a stretch. If they (or Milo, or Ann Coulter) manage to hold an event without antifa bothering them, I don't think you will see many complaints.

There will be some on the right who will be starting to regard antifa as a tangible foe and not just an annoyance that keeps turning up. This would be a mistake, at that point it may start to escalate.
#14799211
maz wrote:Can anyone point to an instance in the past 30-40 years where a mob of conservatives started riotings when some liberal speaker came to their university to present multi-cult, LGBT and whatever standard leftist fare?



Well, it is obvious that the Antifa is supported by the Establishment. Any protests against multi-cult, LGBT and other anti-Christian innovations would be presented by the Media as "racist", "intolerant", "hateful".

But Antifa is never called what it is by the controlled media: violent Commie thugs.
#14799219
I think it's cool that a bunch of fascists got bashed at Berkeley and that Anne Coulter wasn't allowed to speak. First, fascists suck and deserve to have their asses kicked. Second, Anne Coulter is an intellectually vapid grifter who has nothing worth presenting.

Some people just don't deserve a platform at an academic institution. These include intellectually vapid conservative grifters like Coulter and Yiannopolous or "race scientists" like the guy who wrote The Bell Curve.

I'm not going to cry when these people have their "free speech" denied (which they aren't, not having access to a specific venue when you're already a published author or nationally known figure is not a suppression of speech). And I doubt anyone who uses this line of argument to attack universities actually cares about these speakers as anything other than useful props for intellectually lazy arguments against liberals. Since that argument essentially breaks down to:

Being a race scientist and/or conservative shill speaking for money/fame: the Platonic ideal of free speech.

Protesting: not actually free speech.

maz wrote:Can anyone point to an instance in the past 30-40 years where a mob of conservatives started riotings when some liberal speaker came to their university to present multi-cult, LGBT and whatever standard leftist fare?


Yes, students at Bob Jones University nearly beat a professor of Evolutionary Biology to death.
#14799225
SolarCross wrote:I hope that philosophy professor gets prison time for that crime. Bravo 4chan/pol/ !


These are the same sort of guys who tracked down LeBoeuf's 'installation' in the middle of nowhere. That was a bit of fun but took incredible ingenuity, this is more serious and worthy.

I used to regard 4chan/pol/ as simply a lowbrow shitposting springboard for the alt-right, but this has made me think twice.
#14799227
A quick google search brings up The Daily Stormer and a bunch of shitty blogs as the top results for "/pol/ arrest professor berkeley."

Not only is this story not getting traction but nothing will come of it, and /pol/ is most likely wrong anyway. Wow, look at that video and all the evidence the AG has to go on: both the professor and the attacker hero who kicked the shit out of some wimpy fascist both have green eyes and a backpack with black straps. You better believe a judge is signing a warrant based on that right now.
#14799234
So standing up for the right of free speech, you consider provocative? Words cannot describe the repugnance of your pathetic comment.


Standing up for free speech? Son. We are not as stupid as the right wingers with whom you are used to dealing. These folks were not about free speech.

The difference in our sides is my side wishes to protect free speech. Your side wishes to squash free speech, and you know it.


Jesus. Goebbels would be proud of you.

RE Ann Coulter: Berkeley behaved inexcusably. They should welcome her with open arms. They should make her talk mandatory for all students. She is the best recruiter for the left that there ever could be. The ploy of scheduling her when there are no classes scheduled is preposterous. So is the fear of violence. If Berkeley can't control its students when a right-wing ass-hat like Coulter is speaking they should shut down.

You have to hand it to lawyer Coulter. She has made a fortune speaking to the dumbest of the dumb asses. No person with any intelligence would give her words a second thought. That said. She needs publicity like the Berkeley debacle to keep her in the news and selling books to mental midgets. Berkeley is playing right into her hand. They should be smarter than that. They should let her speak then post the video of Coulter being laughed off of the stage on Youtube.

Though progressives are generally better educated than so-called conservatives they are not immune to dumbassery.
#14799242
Drlee wrote:There was a time when we on the right thought of ourselves and ready to take responsibility for holding the moral high ground. That is sure over now. The right (and first among them the republican party) will embrace any neo-Nazi, thug, gun toting cracker and racist who shows up. In fact they actively court them.

The right crows about their moral positions on gay marriage, abortion and the mixture of church and state then whines like a little girl when some "liberal" disagrees with them. So they embrace any thug willing to act all badass.

This reminds me of a quote from Zizek suggesting that the left was now in the position to present itself as the moral high ground.
See Transcript
Žižek: Wait a minute. Things here are more complex. I think this idea, I don’t take it seriously that Trump is simply a madman who will, just as another of his narcissistic jokes, press the button.

There are arguments, so I will now show to you that I’m aware of them, of why I’m sincerely horrified by Trump. Let’s forget about all the content, but the style of how he talks. It’s an incredible degradation, vulgarization of public discourse, how we are allowed to publicly speak.

And here I am for — I’m sorry to say this — for good manners. Maybe you’ve had the same experience. When we were young — I’m older than you — I remember official politicians were talking this [inaudible] noble language and we leftists [inaudible], whatever.

But now it’s almost the opposite. The more you go to the right, Breitbart, and this is a unique change. We leftists should propose ourselves we are the true moral majority. We stand for the ordinary decency, good sense, of common people and so on and so on.

So that for me one among true catastrophes of Donald Trump, this incredible degradation of public discourse. And it’s not only Trump. How things that still some five or ten years ago were simply prohibited in public space. You couldn’t say them. Now we can tell them. I think that’s my pessimism.

And I think this is a compelling notion, that positioning ones self as that and in fact being it, is quite compelling. Even when we don't like someone, to see them as morally virtuous gives them a persuasive character. Can see this in the PR campaign for the pope who isn't radically different in the content of his beliefs from any other pope, but his distancing from the gluttony of the Church made it seem as if everything was washed anew in a significant way. In his case, it's not necessarily the case of being squeaky clean I guess, but also having the actions on which people can see the care for people, the love of their humanity, something inevitably inspiring to even a cynic.
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