French election: Emmanuel Macron wins presidency by decisive margin - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14803454
stephen50right wrote:Yep - Europe felt badly about what they did to 6 million Jews and others, so they let in Muslims to sort of show their new found tolerance. They compounded one horrific mistake for another.

Basically they traded 6 million Jews for over 20 million Muslims. History will decide what kind of trade that was.



For the history record there was not much difference between Vichyite foriegn policy and de Gaulle. They both destrusted Britain and America and pleaded for a Franco-Arab alliance against the British and the Zionists, stressing French and Arab common interests.

After France’s exclusion from the 1945 Yalta negotiations between the U.S., Britain, and Soviet Russia about Europe’s future. Gaullist practitioners of realpolitik had formulated a strategy to restore France’s influence. This entailed two convergent policies, which they hoped to implement both in Europe and in the Arab-Muslim world: the unification of Europe as an international counterweight to America and an alliance with the Arab and African Muslim world, which they considered an economic and geopolitical element of France’s postcolonial sphere of influence. The latter position was strongly advocated in 1945 by Haj Amin al-Hussaini, the former mufti of Jerusalem and a notorious Nazi ally who was Hitler’s guest in Berlin from 1941. After the German defeat he was declared a war criminal and was actively hunted by the British for having fomented a coup d’état in Iraq in 1941 to establish a pro-Nazi government. De Gaulle refused to let him be judged as a war criminal by the Nuremberg tribunal. A preeminent leader among the Muslim masses, and especially the Muslim Brotherhood, the mufti became an agent of French influence in the Arab countries. He pleaded for a Franco-Arab alliance against the British and the Zionists, stressing French and Arab common interests. Through his powerful Arab networks, he proposed a French policy of solidarity with the Arab world.

After Algeria gained its independence in 1962, de Gaulle set out to reorient France’s policy toward the Arab/Islamic world. He pursued economic and strategic long-range planning designed to unite the European and Arab countries of the Mediterranean into a single, interdependent economic bloc that would oppose America. They believed that France’s association with a Muslim federation extending over North Africa and the Middle East would bring it an ascendancy that would impress the Soviet Union and rival the United States. Pierre Lyautey—nephew of Marshall Lyautey, the first French governor of Morocco—championed a Franco-Muslim association in several studies on Euro-Arab relations. In May 1962 he stated, “A French Islamic policy carried out together with the new Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia, perhaps linked tomorrow with a North African federation, and with the states of the Middle East, would bring us a prestige which would impress the United States and the USSR.” De Gaulle shared with his collaborators his wish to build a community with all the Mediterranean countries, different from the American model. He presented France’s cooperation with the Arab world as “the fundamental basis of our foreign policy.”13 The Association of Franco-Arab solidarity was created at that time, with the blessing and participation of distinguished Gaullist diplomats, ministers, and intellectuals.

Two elements thus cemented the Franco-Arab alliance in the 1960s: French anti-Americanism fed by frustrated power ambitions, and a convergence of French Vichy antisemitism with the Arab desire to destroy Israel. From then on, America and Israel were inextricably linked in this policy. They hoped that a pro-French Islam would facilitate the quiet control of former colonies within the French orbit and spread French culture (the so-called Francophonia), associated with the benefits of an enormous market, across Muslim Africa. The rapidity of the Franco-German submission to the Arab threat of an oil boycott arouses the suspicion that this threat represented a pretext for Europeans leaders to reverse previous EEC economic policy toward Israel and the Arab world. This seems all the more plausible since America had pledged to cover Europe’s oil needs and had called the Arab states’ bluff by demonstrating their total dependence on the West. The oil embargo offered France a long-awaited chance to drag the whole of a reluctant EEC into the Arab anti-Zionist political orbit.

As strange as this may have seemed in the years immediately following America’s rescue of France from Nazi tyranny, French hostility toward America ran high. It was fed on the left by the communists and their sympathizers and on the right by pro-Nazi collaborators from the Vichy regime. They remained influential and continued to serve even at the uppermost levels of the postwar French government. Anti-American animus in French government circles was so intense that the eminent French philosopher Raymond Aron noted in 1968 that France “was supporting wittingly and deliberately all those in the Third World who professed the most hostile feelings to Americans and Westerners.” He wondered: “Is every friend of the United States an enemy of France?” Aron commented, “in fact everything transpires as if General de Gaulle’s supreme objective was to oppose everywhere and always the United States…. Does not the current anti-American obsession resemble the anti-British obsession of Vichy in 1940?”

The security of European territory was obtained in exchange for anti-Israel and anti-American policies. Even before the advent of widespread terrorism, de Gaulle’s France had adopted such a policy. According to Jean Bourdeillette, former French ambassador to Israel (1959–1965), “[In June 1967] the world discovered that Paris had crossed into the camp of the USSR and the Arab nations. . . . Israel was sacrificed to the demands of a conjugated anti-American pro-Arab policy.” According to Raymond Kendall—three times elected Interpol General Secretary—the meeting of the International Criminal Police Organization (Mexico, October 1968) refused by a majority vote to consider a report on hijacking planes. After the Munich massacre (1972), Jean Nepote, himself an Interpol General Secretary (1963–1978) and former collaborator with the Nazis in the Vichy Government, refused to gather information on Arab terrorists on the pretext that the Munich crime was political and that Interpol should not interfere. The Report of the Interpol General Assembly in Frankfurt (September 1972) does not mention the Munich massacres although it had been heatedly discussed by the assembly.

Source:Eurabia
Last edited by noir on 08 May 2017 21:50, edited 2 times in total.
#14803460
Thompson_NCL wrote:In what way is FN a Fascist party? :eh: If you can show some parallels in their policy and fascist ideology, fair enough. But I don't think you can, because it's nonsense.

I would personally term it post-fascist , like the Italian Social Movement of old , based upon articles I have read concerning it < http://www.salon.com/2015/12/08/is_fran ... lar_party/ , https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... onal-toxic > . At any rate , it is certainly far right nationalist , to say the least .
#14803474
Beren wrote:If you're really happy with the election results, then you may actually believe your own "analysis" and wishful thinking too. I'm sure you believed Le Pen would win just three months ago and now her political career is on the brink of collapse. ;)


I was saying from the beginning that she wouldn't win, but go on imagining me being devastated over the French elections if it makes you happy :lol:

In the meantime, have some more "analysis":

Die Welt wrote:The Seven Challenges for Macron

When the freshly elected French President entered the Cour Napoléon du Louvre at 10.30 pm on Sunday evening and went to the stage in searchlight, he did not look like a brilliant winner.

The 39-year-old stepped forward with a pinched-up expression, his slender figure pressed deeply into the coat by the new-won responsibility. The path got ever longer while Beethoven's Ode to the joy was playing.

The glass pyramid of I. M. Pei in the background gave the scene a select esoteric ambience, as if the chief sales representative of the market-leading art academy had its great appearance before the annual meeting of representatives.

In that moment, Macron seemed to be aware of what a spectacular prank he had played on the entire disavowed political class of France with his successful campaign - and what a huge burden he will have to shoulder from now on as president.

"Our challenge will be immense," he repeated five times before the conspicuously cautious crowd, that seemed to suspect that the new president would demand a lot of them in the future.

Macron knows that he has little time to get France on the right track. Too divided is the country, too destructive the opposition, which is waiting for him to fail. At least seven major tasks lie before the youngest French head of state since Napoleon.

1. Find a Prime Minister

Macron needs to find a premier to embody his claim to renewal and to keep the heterogeneous field of his supporters together. If he appoints a moderately conservative, all the lefties will cry out that they have always known that Macron is actually a right (variation: neoliberal).

If he does the opposite, and appoints a social-liberal or open-minded left, all the rights which view Macron as the "heir of Hollande" will be confirmed. As a general rule, the President shall appoint the Prime Minister on the day of his or her term of office or shortly thereafter.

Presumably on the 15th or 16th of May, Macron may announce the name. The resonance will decide on whether he can take the swing of his victory into the parliamentary elections.

2. Win the parliamentary elections

On June 11, a new National Assembly will be elected, the round table will take place on 18 June. Macron must reach his own majority there. His movement is to be launched under the name "La République en marche". Its candidates are to be recruited by one-third from civil society, the rest by faithful, and by transients from other parties.

Supposedly, his consultants have sighted nearly 14,000 applications to select 577 candidates. What is clear is that if Macron fails to win a majority of his own, he will be forced to cope with a "cohabitation", that is, with a majority of the conservatives or the left, in which case he will hardly be able to implement reforms.

3. Carry out labor market reforms

Macron will have to act quickly to be successful before the end of his term. He must reduce unemployment, in particular youth unemployment. To do this, he must avoid the error of his predecessor: Hollande only began to reform when he had no longer any support. Macron argues that he has a mandate for reforms.

The opposition will object to just that. In particular, the long-term reform of the labor market, announced by Macron, produced last week's protests and the movement "Nuit debout". The left Jean-Luc Mélenchon is already looking forward to leading the first wave of protests against Macron. Many expect a "social autumn" of mass protests.

4. Overcome division

A quarter of all voters did not vote. More than four million voiced invalid or blank ballot papers. Of those who made their cross, a third, 10.4 million, voted for Marine Le Pen. Put everything together: about 25 million Frenchmen who are against Emmanuel Macron.

The strategic difficulty for Macron is that his toughest opponents are found both on the extreme left and on the extreme right. Both sides will be hostile to a rather centrist-liberal course.

But if Macron decides too clearly for one side, he brings the other up against him. It seems hopeless that the hostile blocks will approach each other, let alon "reconcile" after a poisoned election campaign to. Despite or because of Macron the moat between left and right in France is deeper than ever.

5. Help the youth

An analysis of the vote shows France as a country split up in many ways: well-off metropolitan residents with higher education choose Macron, low-income earners in the suburbs and in the country choose Le Pen. The north, the north-east and the southeast choose Le Pen. A line from Lille to Marseille chooses Macron.

The new president has rather the medium to older on his side, the young chose Le Pen and Mélenchon in the first year. If he wants to regain the frustrated youth for the republic, the new president has to offer it prospects quickly.

6. Fight terror

Macron will also be measured by how he deals with the latent and potentially dangerous terror threat. In his speech, he promised to "protect" France. If the impression is that he can not do this - and there is a risk of 11,000 police-registered threats - right parties will benefit.

7. Gain room for maneuver in the EU

The insistence on a faithful adherence to the European treaties and the rigorous austerity which the German federal government demands its European partners - this has long been regarded in France as exaggeratedly law-abiding, unpleasantly moralizing and economically orthodox, but above all as a growth killer.

Macron will make every effort to persuade the German government to adopt a much more lenient attitude. He will have to do this because the displeasure about the European policy in Berlin is extraordinarily strong in France, and is made responsible by many voters for the misery of France.

Almost 50 per cent of the French electorate voted in the first election for candidates who are very critical of the European Union and are advancing the withdrawal from the euro.

This relativizes the number of 66 per cent who voted in the second election for the pro-European Macron. If Macron fails to convince the French pan-European skeptics, the left and right margins will be further strengthened.

Macron has announced in his speech at the court of the Louvre to do everything possible to prevent this. For this he will want to prove to the French that they are not governed by Madame Merkel - as Marine Le Pen put it in the TV debate.

The German Government would be wise to help Emmanuel Macron to blur this impression. This does not mean that it agrees to distribute Eurobonds unconditionally generously.

But a slightly larger budgetary deficit for a limited period will cost Europe less than the victory of an extremist party in the next election in France. If you want to get Europe, Europe and Emmanuel Macron will have to offer something.


Have fun, Emmanuel! 8) I'll be stocking up on my popcorn over here :excited:
#14803482
Today.
The French Neo Jacobins raise the Palestinians flag. The Muslims don't need to be a numerical majority to influence the culture sphere.

Published on May 8, 2017
Tensions were high on the streets of Paris as police rushed to break up crowds of protesters on Monday, only one day after En Marche! candidate Emmanuel Macron's victory in the 2017 presidential elections.

Riot police armed lined the streets and dispersed protesters that had initially gathered in Place de la Republique to rally against Macron's victory.

Activists announced before the second round of elections that they would demonstrate regardless of the result, stating that if either Emmanuel Macron or Front National's Marine Le Pen won, austerity policies will be introduced.

Macron, a former investment banker and the Economics Minister under former-President Francois Hollande, secured 66.06 percent of the vote to defeat his rival Le Pen. At 39, he will become the youngest president in French history.


#14803492
mikema63 wrote:Popcorn is gross, that's right I said it.

My prediction for France is that almost nothing will really change one way or another.


Wishful thinking, mike. Things have already changed drastically compared to 30 years ago. And they keep changing. How else would we fill all those history books?
#14803494
Meh, the more things change the more they stay the same. 30 years from now it'll be the same stuff but about greek or north korean refugees or something.

Or maybe the whole muslim doomsday thing will be true, in which case it'll be them arguing over greek or north korean refugees or something.
#14803496
If "the whole muslim doomsday" will come true, I doubt they'll be arguing about Koreans. Or do you see them arguing about whales and microaggressions now? They'll be busy throwing gays off of high buildings, and you can then watch it on TV and moan about it from across the ocean and continue feeling good about yourselves.
#14803499
Europe is saturated with radioactive liberalism, the radiation will mutate them into perverse muslim copies of the people they overthrew. You'll see! :)

(no I'm not taking this particularly seriously, obviously I disagree but you euro types need to figure your own shit out. I'm safe here in eagle land. :D )
#14803500
Frollein wrote:I was saying from the beginning that she wouldn't win, but go on imagining me being devastated over the French elections if it makes you happy :lol

It must be your fixation that people, especially men perhaps, imagine you doing or being something and it makes them happy. I rather imagine Ter sitting on the fence and meditating wisely instead of sharing his feelings and thoughts with us here. :lol:
#14803604
Beren wrote:It must be your fixation that people, especially men perhaps, imagine you doing or being something and it makes them happy. I rather imagine Ter sitting on the fence and meditating wisely instead of sharing his feelings and thoughts with us here. :lol:


Uh-huh. We have you in this thread with three or four posts insisting that you know how I feel about the results of this election, despite me telling you how I really feel (or not feel, in this case), but of course you aren't imagining anything - it's me who's fixated on you.

Do you need a cookie? Or a pat on the head?
#14803620
Frollein wrote:Uh-huh. We have you in this thread with three or four posts insisting that you know how I feel about the results of this election, despite me telling you how I really feel (or not feel, in this case), but of course you aren't imagining anything - it's me who's fixated on you.

Do you need a cookie? Or a pat on the head?

You mentioned me first in this thread, then keep responding to me even if my response is purely rhetorical, and claim that I'm very interested in your feelings and enjoy imagining you being devastated by the results. In my opinion you just picked me to convince or demonstrate to yourself and PoFo how false me and others are because you actually don't care, which nobody believes of course. As a matter of fact the more you push it the less convincing you are. And this shit may keep going for a long time as you German-speaking posters keep arguing until you run out of words or the other side gives up.
Last edited by Beren on 09 May 2017 13:25, edited 1 time in total.
#14803624
And now here is noir with the only agenda she's interested in, no matter what the topic actually is. I'm sure it's still not clear to her that this election wasn't about Islam first, it wasn't even about immigration first. If Le Pen hadn't declared herself Madame Frexit, she could have performed better perhaps. Her name and rhetoric, as well as her personality also may have been an obstacle.
#14803644
Beren wrote:You mentioned me first in this thread,


Imagine me responding to posters who post in the same thread as I! Sure sign of obsession!

Actually, I had been referring to the EU in my first post, and mentioned you only in passing:

Beren's "little project" is still on its same trajectory to abject failure.


I didn't fantasize about your feelings about the election result, as you then started about me, and kept on fantasizing. To wit:

Beren wrote:Are you excited too? Thank you for your sour grapes Frollein! :lol:


Beren wrote:Sour grapes with popcorn, I'll give you that. ;)


Beren wrote:I'm sure you believed Le Pen would win just three months ago and now her political career is on the brink of collapse. ;)


In fact, I quoted a whole newspaper article about Macron's difficulties in the next weeks, which you completely ignored in favour of continuing your little side game about my feelings over the elections. You're making a complete ass of yourself here, Beren, and I suggest you just drop it and focus on the subject of this thread, which isn't me, or my feelings, but the esteemed Monsieur Macron and his grand project of saving France and the EU :)
#14803685
Frollein wrote:I didn't fantasize about your feelings about the election result, as you then started about me, and kept on fantasizing.

I fantasise a whole lot about you Frollein, I have to admit. ;) I imagine you're the same as Le Pen basically. You're the same gender, the same age, you have the same skin-colour and the same worldview, and the same kind of family background perhaps, that's why you identify with her so much. I'm sure you kept hoping for her success as long as it was possible and reasonable, but now you have to look optimistic and careless.

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