[anarchist23]

Is Chelsea Manning a hero or a traitor? Why?

[Zionist Nationalist]

[Zag Edit: Rule 3]

[RepubliConservative]

Whistle-blowers should be protected. She's a heroine.

Do you know who it hurts to refer to Chelsea Manning as a "she"? Nobody.

Some people view it as promoting a lie, which could cause emotional/psychological distress. I, for one, know I always get upset in the rare times when I feel the need to lie.

[Heisenberg]

I'm pretty sure being gratuitously spiteful does more emotional and psychological damage than treating a transgender person as they would like to be treated. But then, I'm not party to True Christian™ conservative logic, which apparently sees the Golden Rule as optional.

[Frollein]

Is Chelsea Manning a hero or a traitor? Why?

Hate to break it to you, but eyeshadow doesn't make you a woman.

[SolarCross]

[anarchist23]

Hate to break it to you, but eyeshadow doesn't make you a woman.

No, the thread isn't about transgenderism, but every right-winger on Pofo thinks it is. It's simply an excuse to dismiss something based on someone's gender/identity.

@Frollein
Yes. You should read Godstuds post, he speaks the truth.
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet. Move on! lol

[Oxymoron]

@Frollein
Yes. You should read Godstuds post, he speaks the truth.
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet. Move on! lol

Someones mental insanity has nothing to do with this?

[anarchist23]

Someones mental insanity has nothing to do with this?

Godstud wrote:
No, the thread isn't about transgenderism, but every right-winger on Pofo thinks it is. It's simply an excuse to dismiss something based on someone's gender/identity.

Yes. All right wingers are insane and/or uneducated and usually of low IQ. They should read a book or two. lol

Right-wingers are less intelligent than left wingers, says study.
Children with low intelligence grow up to be prejudiced
Right-wing views make the less intelligent feel 'safe'
Analysis of more than 15,000 people
Right-wingers tend to be less intelligent than left-wingers, and people with low childhood intelligence tend to grow up to have racist and anti-gay views, says a controversial new study.
Conservative politics work almost as a 'gateway' into prejudice against others, say the Canadian academics.
The paper analysed large UK studies which compared childhood intelligence with political views in adulthood across more than 15,000 people.
The authors claim that people with low intelligence gravitate towards right-wing views because they make them feel safe..
The survey, which compared childhood intelligence with political views, is bad news for David Cameron, the Conservative Party Prime Minister but should give a lift to Labour Party leader, Ed Miliband, pictured in Question Time
Crucially, people's educational level is not what determines whether they are racist or not - it's innate intelligence, according to the academics.
Social status also appears to play no part.
The study, published in Psychological Science, claims that right-wing ideology forms a 'pathway' for people with low reasoning ability to become prejudiced against groups such as other races and gay people.
Left-wingers tend to be more open-minded says the survey - Democrats voted in first black U.S. president Barack Obama. But right-wing ideology forms a pathway for prejudice - Republican frontrunner Mitt Romney, pictured right, was glitter-bombed yesterday by gay-rights activists because of his views
'Cognitive abilities are critical in forming impressions of other people and in being open minded,' say the researchers.
'Individuals with lower cognitive abilities may gravitate towards more socially conservative right-wing ideologies that maintain the status quo.
'It provides a sense of order.'
The study, by academics at Brock University in Ontario, Canada, used information from two UK studies from 1958 and 1970 , where several thousand children were assessed for intelligence at age 10 and 11, and then asked political questions aged 33.
The 1958 National Child Development involved 4,267 men and 4,537 women born in 1958.
British Cohort Study involved 3,412 men and 3,658 women born in 1970.
It's the first time the data from these studies has been used in this way.
In adulthood, the children were asked whether they agreed with statements such as, 'I wouldn't mind working with people from other races,' and 'I wouldn't mind if a family of a different race moved next door.'
They were also asked whether they agreed with statements about typically right-wing and socially conservative politics such as, 'Give law breakers stiffer sentences,' and 'Schools should teach children to obey authority.'
The researchers also compared their results against a 1986 American study which included tests of cognitive ability and questions assessing prejudice against homosexuals.
The authors claim that there is a strong correlation between low intelligence both as a child and an adult, and right-wing politics.
The authors also claim that conservative politics is part of a complex relationship that leads people to become prejudices.
'Conservative ideology represents a critical pathway through which childhood intelligence predicts racism in adulthood,' says the paper.
'In psychological terms, the relation between intelligence and prejudice may stem from the propensity of individuals with lower cognitive ability to endorse more right wing conservative ideologies because such ideologies offer a psychological sense of stability and order.'
'Clearly, however, all socially conservative people are not prejudiced, and all prejudiced persons are not conservative.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z48C1KVLNv
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Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z48C162VPz
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[MememyselfandIJK]

Yes. All right wingers are insane and/or uneducated and usually of low IQ. They should read a book or two. lol

As someone who is further left than you, there are plenty of right wingers who are fine. Most of them just don't hang out on PoFo. Be wary of such studies though. There have been many claims for such studies such as:

• Atheists, Left-wingers, and (in men) monogamous people are smarter
• Socialists are smarter
• Capitalists are physically stronger

However, it is much more useful to go by a case-by-case basis for assessing people, as well as consider reasons other than ideology (For example, since younger people are more leftist, college campuses which include a generally higher iq, lack of religion, and so on, help reduce the amount that people become conservative as they age)

Someones mental insanity has nothing to do with this?

Nope, especially if there is no mental insanity involved.

Hate to break it to you, but eyeshadow doesn't make you a woman.

Nah it doesn't. But other things do.

[SolarCross]

Nah it doesn't. But other things do.

That was exactly the delightful frollein's point.

The "other things" being:

- XX chromosomes.
- presence of womb (ie woman is womb-man, man with a womb)
- functioning secondary reproductive genitalia: vagina!
- BOOBIES!
- Swinging hips
- multi-tasking mental abilities
- hormone levels that involve oestrogen and progesterone more than testosterone
- absence of fast twitch musculature
- finer bone density
- etc. much much more!

google sexual dimophism; there is a lot more to it than make up usage.

[MememyselfandIJK]

@SolarCross Congratulations you manage to exclude from your definition:

1. Women with trisomy X
2. Women that are infertile
3. Women with reproductive organs removed
4. Women with breast reductions
5. Women that are more masculine
6. Women with lower IQs
7. Women with Attention disorders
8. Women with certain hormonal disorders
9. Women taking particular types of birth control or other hormonal treatments
10. Women with irregular bone/muscle structure
11. And Much More!

And include in your definition:

1. Men with Klienfelter's
2. Men that have larger breast
3. Men with certain hormonal treatments
4. Men with certain hormonal disorders
5. Men that are more femine
6. Men with irregular bone/muscle structure
7. And Much More!

[skinster]

Trans women are not women, but trans-women, which is why they're called trans-women and not simply women. The same goes for trans men. I'm all for supporting trans rights but not for denying biology/reality, sorry.

[Drlee]

This thread is a wonderful illustration of why identity politics is leading us to ruin. People on both sides of the political spectrum have allowed themselves to be lured into making this a discussion about transsexualism by the two groups who identify as conservative today. They are:

1) Smart but unprincipled political players who realize that diverting attention from political issues to nonsense like this man's sexual preferences allow them to control the cattle.

2) The abject dumb asses who actually think that this man's sexual preferences have fuck all to do with this issue.

Manning is a criminal. He has betrayed his country and violated his oath of enlistment into the military. He is not a hero. He is a criminal. It may be convenient for some that this information was released. It was not "right" for Manning to have released it.

Now would someone please post an article on penis size and IQ or on why all Muslim women are sexually repressed and frigid so that we can get back on topic.

[Ter]

Manning is a criminal. He has betrayed his country and violated his oath of enlistment into the military. He is not a hero. He is a criminal. It may be convenient for some that this information was released. It was not "right" for Manning to have released it.

All that is absolute truth.

To add to it:

- he did not sell the secrets for money, rather out of idealism, misplaced or not.
- he did time in jail already (seven years?)
- this episode might lead to improved security protocols within the secret and armed services.
- compassion to release him will not harm anyone.

[Drlee]

I don't disagree with any of your points. I have no problem with the commutation of his sentence. Your post is on topic. Idealism does not make one a hero. Himmler was an idealist.

[AFAIK]

I'm generally pro-whistleblower and pro-transparency but I don't think the bulk of Manning's leaks were in the public interest and the mass dumping of info via wikileaks is irresponsible and dangerous. That may have been the biggest lesson learned from this and Snowden handled his cache of documents much more cautiously and carefully.

I'm happy that she's free. Seven years is long enough given the context, which Ter posted above.

[skinster]

Manning is a hero, or shero, whatever word is preferred.

[anarchist23]

Manning is a hero, or shero, whatever word is preferred.

Yes. Chelsea Manning is a heroine of the nth degree. Seven years in prison is a long time, without a doubt.

[skinster]

Government's own report states Manning's leaks caused no harm