[mikema63]

Cool, that's totally true and relevant. Because Hillary Clinton is now the topic of every discussion because I of course deserve to have her brought up every time I ever disagree with Skinster literally forever no matter what the topic at hand is.

[anasawad]

If everything in the recent past is not proof, even the admittions of those running things. Then i don't know what is.
Hillary Clinton, your beloved one, openly said she's sending heavy weapons to such groups including the Islamic front directly in Syria, and the leaks and the public statement showed how Libya had these Islamists rising.
Fact, Its the reason she lost the election. Read her emails.

And multiple intelligence reports showed that US weapons provided for the rebels are constantly going to ISIS. Yet the weapon supply continued.

[mikema63]

My beloved one.

Bitch paid me, more than I've ever made before, it paid for a year of college. Seriously go drown yourself in your tears about how I worked for the candidate who wasn't trump.

[skinster]

Cool, that's totally true and relevant. Because Hillary Clinton is now the topic of every discussion because I of course deserve to have her brought up every time I ever disagree with Skinster literally forever no matter what the topic at hand is.

You supported and still support a neoliberal warmonger and simultaneously cry victim about it, which is weird, but ok, nevermind that...you wanted to know about western support for ISIS and I told you. Wikileaks also exposed Killary's support of Islamist rebels and you can continue to deny that even though her own emails said the same.

Also, A US intelligence report reveals that Western support for Syria’s rebels aided and abetted the rise of the ‘Islamic State’ - and the Pentagon won’t deny it

[anasawad]

Tears ? you worked for a war criminal. Congrats on the great honor.


And BTW. You're currently fighting along side Al-qaeda in Yemen and also you're sending weapons to them along with other groups in the conflict.
Its so much of a secret that its on daily news. Must be a conspiracy.

[skinster]

I'm wondering when we're going to have to tell them about the biggest exporters of terrorism in the middle east are the West's best buddies.

[mikema63]

Tears ? you worked for a war criminal. Congrats on the great honor.

It remains one of the most positive experiences of my life.

You know what. I don't have to justify myself, the circumstances of my life, or my needs to you two. Fuck me for believing that the west has been shit with the middle east but isn't literally conspiring to fund and create ISIS, cool. You guys just follow me around and bring up Hillary till the end of time, I'll survive the experience.

[skinster]

You wanted an argument and I reminded you how HRC/Obama sent sarin gas to Syria from Libya. Then you start blabbering on about how you're a victim again. And you wonder why you get called out on here...

Rat-line
The answer is deeply uncomfortable, but was inadvertently revealed in June 2015, when UK courts sought to try Swedish national Bherlin Gildo. He was charged with attending an extremist training camp in Syria, receiving weapons training and possessing information on extremists.

In pre-trial hearings, prosecuting lawyer for the Crown, Riel Karmy-Jones, told the court that from 2012 to 2013, Gildo had worked with al-Nusra Front, the “proscribed group considered to be al-Qaeda in Syria,” many of whose followers went on to join ISIS. (Al-Nusra has since attempted to rehabilitate its image by publicly disassociating from al-Qaeda — a move which, however, was strongly supported by al-Qaeda largely for PR purposes.)

The British trial collapsed when Gildo’s defence team pointed out he had joined an anti-Assad group — al-Nusra — which had received British government support. This support went through a CIA-MI6 al-Qaeda-facilitated arms “rat-line” from Libya to Syria.

The trial ended up inadvertently confirming what I’d been told a year earlier by Charles Shoebridge, a former British Army and Metropolitan Police counter terrorism intelligence officer: that the US and UK “through the covert work of MI6 and the CIA… played a key role in facilitating the flow of arms and jihadist fighters to Syria from such places as Libya, the Caucuses and Balkans, with the aim of militarily boosting those fighting Assad.”

At the same time, while this ‘rat-line’ was going on, British authorities “turned a blind eye to the travelling of its own jihadists to Syria, notwithstanding ample video etc. evidence of their crimes there,” said Shoebridge:

“Despite such overseas terrorism having been illegal in the UK since 2006, it’s notable that only towards the end of 2013 when ISIS turned against the West’s preferred rebels, and perhaps also when the tipping point between foreign policy usefulness and MI5 fears of domestic terrorist blowback was reached, did the UK authorities begin to take serious steps to tackle the flow of UK jihadists.”

Yet such steps appear to have been undermined by the British government’s embarrassment over its own security agencies facilitating military and financial support to these jihadist groups.

The British government has so far denied that Abedi was directly connected to a wider network — but he had at one point come to the attention of MI5 as an associate of Isis recruiter Raphael Hostey, killed in a drone strike in Syria in 2016.

Shortly before embarking upon his act of mass murder, he had arrived back from a weeks-long trip to Libya (and possibly Syria). It wasn’t his first.

Abedi reportedly grew up in a tight-knit ethnically Libyan community heavily opposed to Ghaddafi’s regime, which in itself would be no surprise. But back in Libya, the Telegraph claims:

“A group of Gaddafi dissidents, who were members of the outlawed Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), lived within close proximity to Abedi in Whalley Range… Among them was Abd al-Baset Azzouz, a father-of-four from Manchester, who left Britain to run a terrorist network in Libya overseen by Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden’s successor as leader of al-Qaeda. Azzouz, 48, an expert bomb-maker, was accused of running an al-Qaeda network in eastern Libya. The Telegraph reported in 2014 that Azzouz had 200 to 300 militants under his control and was an expert in bomb-making.”

In NATO’s Libya intervention to topple Ghaddafi, the US and British partnered with the very same al-Qaeda affiliated groups, including LIFG.

In March 2011, Nato-backed Libyan rebel leader Abdel-Hakim al-Hasidi openly admitted that al-Qaeda jihadists who had fought Western troops in Iraq were fighting on the frontlines to topple Ghaddafi. “Members of al-Qaeda are also good Muslims and are fighting the invader,” he said.

According to former CIA officer Bruce Reidel at the time:

“There is no question that al-Qaeda’s Libyan franchise, Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, is a part of the opposition. It has always been [Muammar] Gaddafi’s biggest enemy and its stronghold is Benghazi.”

Canadian intelligence files show that senior Nato leaders knew military action would likely lead to “a long-term tribal/civil war” in Libya, especially if “opposition forces receive military assistance from foreign militaries”.

The opposition, intelligence agencies confirmed, were strongly tied to al-Qaeda and other violent Islamist groups.

Even the State Department conceded in its 2012 Country Reports on Terrorism that in early 2011, in the wake of the collapse of Ghaddafi’s regime, “LIFG members created the LIFG successor group, the Libyan Islamic Movement for Change (LIMC), and became one of many rebel groups united under the umbrella of the opposition leadership known as the Transitional National Council. Former LIFG emir and LIMC leader Abdel Hakim Bil-Hajj was appointed the Libyan Transitional Council’s Tripoli military commander during the Libyan uprisings and has denied any link between his group and AQ.”

Sit with that for a second.

The head of the US-UK’s favoured post-war regime in Libya in 2011 was a former al-Qaeda leader who in 1997 wrote a glowing letter of support to the mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
Source

[anasawad]

Your government has created dozens of terrorist groups all over through the past 30-40 years. And all of the records are public about it.
And now, all the evidence and the leaks shows that they've created these new groups. Starting with Al-Nusra front, then spliting from it ISIS that continuous to get western weapons constantly and sponsered by US puppet regimes and allies. And the most recent the Islamic front.
Including the Kurds currently attacking anther enemy of the US Iran and attempting to destabilize the country from inside.

Its far from a conspiracy. Its reality.

[Rugoz]

Here's the result of a more or less representative poll among refugees in Lebanon. The original article was published in Foreign Affairs.

According to this, 40% support the government, while 50% support a variety of opposition groups.

http://eng.majalla.com/2016/11/article5 ... es-support

[anasawad]

@Rugoz
No one said the Syrian regime isn't a criminal and tyrannical one. This does not however disprove that the US along with its allies have been sponsoring and aiding terror groups all over the middle east, north Africa, and the world in general during the past 30-40 years.

[skinster]

Here's the result of a more or less representative poll among refugees in Lebanon. The original article was published in Foreign Affairs.

According to this, 40% support the government, while 50% support a variety of opposition groups.

http://eng.majalla.com/2016/11/article5 ... es-support

Here's Syrians in Lebanon who support Assad.

[Rugoz]

No one said the Syrian regime isn't a criminal and tyrannical one. This does not however disprove that the US along with its allies have been sponsoring and aiding terror groups all over the middle east, north Africa, and the world in general during the past 30-40 years.

We've also supported uncountable secular dictatorships in the Middle East, we've also supported and installed democracies, with little success, because people vote for islamists. What the fuck do you want, anasawad?

[Stormsmith]

Come on guys, play nicely. The call was heath care, education, and a pay rise. Trump vs Clinton. End of.

The topic here is Manchester, end of.

[anasawad]

@Rugoz
You never supported democracies. You're governments have constantly supported genocidal dictatorships to maintain the resources flow. And any country that doesn't obay ends up having insurgents and extremests rising with heavy weaponry and starts butchering people all around and destroying that country.

What i want ? I want you to get the fuck off and stop boosting terrorists, but since you're not going to do that you'll be kicked out by force. Thats why there is a war going on you know.
What is the argument is about ? Its about the fact that the US is sponsoring all these Islamist extremests whom are killing all sorts of people all around, and you denying it even when its pretty much public affairs and not really a secret.

[MememyselfandIJK]

I am highly skeptical of the idea that the US deliberately created ISIS though.

You are right to be highly skeptical about that, and that is not my point. Most likely it was a combination of recklessness, poor planning, and unwillingness to owe up to their mistakes, rather than deliberate intervention that created ISIS. However, accident or not, the US needs to clean up the mess it made with minimal loss of civilian life (which violent action would only promote) or loss of quality of life (which my proposal would help to prevent) like any responsible person/nation.

[Saeko]

@Rugoz
You never supported democracies. You're governments have constantly supported genocidal dictatorships to maintain the resources flow. And any country that doesn't obay ends up having insurgents and extremests rising with heavy weaponry and starts butchering people all around and destroying that country.

What i want ? I want you to get the fuck off and stop boosting terrorists, but since you're not going to do that you'll be kicked out by force. Thats why there is a war going on you know.
What is the argument is about ? Its about the fact that the US is sponsoring all these Islamist extremests whom are killing all sorts of people all around, and you denying it even when its pretty much public affairs and not really a secret.

We supported Israel. Which is a democracy.

[Rugoz]

You never supported democracies.

Nonsense.

We've installed a democracy in Iraq, but people vote along sectarian lines.
We've supported disempowerment of the military in Turkey, but people continued to vote for Erdogan/AKP despite increasing authoritarianism.
We've supported the toppling of Mubarak and new elections in Egypt, but Salafists and the Muslim Brotherhood won the vote, resulting in a counter-revolution by the old regime.
We've supported the Arab spring in Tunisia.
We've tried to install a democratic government in Libya, which as an utter failure.
We've tried to do the same in Syria, but quickly ran out of non-Islamists to support.

Back to dictators again I guess.

P.S. With "we" I mean America and NATO. I obviously had no say in it.

[QatzelOk]

I'm wondering when we're going to have to tell them about the biggest exporters of terrorism in the middle east are the West's best buddies.

There are still people who haven't figured out that multinationals use terrorism to destroy nations that have too many social programs.

There are still people who don't realize that rich Western countries provide comfort, supplies and logistics for the world's biggest terrorists.

There are still people who cite the Quran every time some Western terror-exporting country loses a few of its own civilians.

These people can't learn. They have had their minds turned into impenetrable plastic by mass media and other well-financed ideological programming. Showing a dog how evil its masters are is like putting paint on glass. The dog is wagging his tail thinking about his next treat.

We've tried to install a democratic government in Libya, which as an utter failure.

Sponsoring terrorists and bombing infrastructure is not how to "install a democracy." Please reread the world's ownership manual.

[anasawad]

1-You did not support a democracy in Iraq, infact the groups that were armed by the US guaranteed a constant civil war in the country.
2- Turkey was in the process of democratization since the 19th century, far before you came along.
3- You didn't support any democratic process in Egypt, in fact you're currently supporting a military government.
4- Tunisia is a small country and didn't have a civil war to remove the dictator and the insurgents that did try to rise up (i.e the ones you support), were stopped early on by the people.
5-No you didn't try to install a democracy in Libya, I think you'd find exactly who you were supporting there in Hillary's email. They're not democratic if you're wondering.
6- No, you supported first a military coup in Syria (the FSA was former military factions that tried a coup), and then turned to Islamists mainly Al-qaeda from Iraq along with all sort of merceneries to topple the regime. Because you're trying to get an oil line from the Gulf states to Europe through Syria so you can have an alternative to Russian oil. Shortly after Syria refused and chose the Iranian pipe line offer, the military coup happened and the war started.


So far, if the regime doesn't obey orders from your elites and the country doesn't allow your corporations to take over. That country will generally have extremests and terrorists and insurgents attacking it.