Israel retracts criticism of anti-Semitism in Hungary and strongly attacks Soros - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14825659
Buzz62 wrote::lol:
A rich Jew who isn't a big fan of Israel. Germans reviving Jewish slander.
OMG is the world falling to pieces?
:lol:



Soros like many assimilated pre Hitler Hungarian and German Jews was always antisemite. The Jewish identity was forced upon them by the Nazi racial policy. After the Holocaust many become Zionists but not in his case. Maybe he had to justify his actions during the war (collaborating with the Nazis). Right after the war there was a heated debate about all the Jewish criminals who made the Nazi effort easy but the trauma was so great that it was forgotten.

Wikipedia

György Schwartz, he changed his family name in 1936 from Schwartz to Soros to avoid antisemitism. George Soros later said that he "grew up in a Jewish, anti-semitic home," and that his parents were "uncomfortable with their religious roots."
Last edited by noir on 21 Jul 2017 16:48, edited 1 time in total.
#14825661
Zionist Nationalist wrote:if we are the axis of evil so who are the good guys Russia and Syria?

It's a tough choice indeed. I wouldn't describe Putin as evil though, and I wonder if Assad is as much evil indeed. It's hard to be a good guy while fighting the devil, and it's a never ending fight it seems because they just cannot stop.
#14825662
Zionist Nationalist wrote:if we are the axis of evil so who are the good guys Russia and Syria?

Didn't you hear? We caved and now side with Russia's position on Syria.

Nothing suspicious there.
#14825669
Decky wrote:The entire history of western democracy so far. In Britain the elite love to pat themselves on the back and talk about the mother of Parliaments and Britain's good work spreading democracy and yet my great grandfather did not even have the vote while his flesh was being torn up by hot metal in a Belgian forest during the first world war. Like the vast majority of working class men in the UK he didn't get the vote till late 1918 (100% of all the Hun troops he was facing did have the vote before the war had even started).

Did anyone in Edwardian Britain refer to their country as a democracy at all? I suspect the term was not much used in Britain until the 1930s, when a makeshift ideology to oppose fascism (and later communism) was cobbled together based on newly discovered values like "democracy" and "human rights".

The USA shifted to democracy earlier, when Andrew Jackson became the first President to be elected by universal white male suffrage and proceeded to attack the oligarchy of that day.

In the mid-century era democracy was actually taken somewhat seriously in Western countries. Governments on both sides of the pond instituted policies to benefit a majority of voters, and the working class was uplifted more than all other classes. This led to the lowest level of economic and political inequality in all of human history.

It was, of course, a fleeting moment.

But what's bizarre now is the way Very Serious People use the term democracy to mean its exact opposite.

For instance, apparently the Polish government is antidemocratic because it carries out the wishes of the Polish people instead of the wishes of the German Chancellor? :?:

Decky wrote:You recent posts have been odd Dave, why are you pretending to be really naive? :?:

As noir said...
noir wrote:He was ironic, no?


Zionist Nationalist wrote:if we are the axis of evil so who are the good guys Russia and Syria?

The Ass Man is the world's greatest hero today. 8)
#14825680
noir wrote:Soros like many assimilated pre Hitler Hungarian and German Jews was always antisemite. The Jewish identity was forced upon them by the Nazi racial policy. After the Holocaust many become Zionists but not in his case. Maybe he had to justify his actions during the war (collaborating with the Nazis). Right after the war there was a heated debate about all the Jewish criminals who made the Nazi effort easy but the trauma was so great that it was forgotten.

Wikipedia

Errr...I've had many debates in here where Jewish people tell me that being a Jew means one is a member of an actual race of people. Not just a believer or supporter of the Jewish faith. I suppose that makes Soros a Jew, no matter what is said or done. And I've always found it abundantly amusing to hear people claim that should anyone have any opposition to the way Israel was created, or the way it's run, is the almighty antisemite. Hell there's a mountain of evidence that strongly suggests that nowhere near 6 million Jews were executed by The Nazis. And anyone who supports this view, is not only an almighty antisemite, but has somehow broke an international law. Boy is that an opaque effort...

Minorities and the ever-lovin' extremely destructive PC crowd, are likely gonna succeed in having chunks of British history erased. I don't know whether to laugh or puke...
#14825703
But what's bizarre now is the way Very Serious People use the term democracy to mean its exact opposite.

They use the word "democracy" in place of the word "liberalism", Dave. When they say that the Polish government is behaving in an "anti-democratic" manner, they actually mean that it's behaving in an anti-liberal manner. The distinction is a subtle but important one. It means that if a choice has to be made between liberalism or democracy, the Western elite will choose liberalism every time. There was a brief historical moment in the mid-20th century when it seemed that liberalism and democracy were synonyms, but that fell apart rather quickly and in retrospect it now seems clear that they are actually becoming increasingly incompatible with each other. However, that brief historical moment seems to have led to a confusion of thought on the part of the Western elite, who now seem to be incapable of making a distinction between the values of liberalism and the values of democracy. Hence the rather bizarre doublethink on their part, when an obviously populist and democratic leader is condemned as "anti-democratic" simply because he or she rejects liberal values in accordance with the popular will.
#14825719
"Today, an interview with the man who saved Europe from itself, Prime Minister Viktor Orbán"



Hungarian PM: We share the same security concerns as Israel

Eldad Beck

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban could finally breathe a sigh of relief. He had just presided over a historic visit by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, a visit that was held amid tension with the local Jewish community. The visit also coincided with the summit of the Visegrad Group, a bloc of central European countries aimed at boosting regional cooperation, which Orban hosted as well. Netanyahu was invited to attended that summit during his visit.

Just before we sat down for the interview, Orban showed me the view from his office overlooking the Danube River.

"Netanyahu was extremely awed by this view," he tells me. "He was touched by the fact that he was visiting the city where [the founder of political Zionism] Theodor Herzl was born. He was moved every time he mentioned Herzl. This wasn't just an official visit, it was an emotional visit."

It didn't take long before Orban expressed his pleasure at having successfully moved the countries together by presiding over the first official visit by an Israeli prime minister.

"I'm proud of being the prime minister of Hungary who opened a new chapter of cooperation between Israel and Hungary," he says.

What was the meaning of Prime Minister Netanyahu's visit for you personally and for Hungary?

"Nobody knows exactly how it happened that no Israeli prime minister visited this country for 30 years [since the establishment of relations, considering it has] the huge Jewish community by European standards, the second-biggest in Europe, and having so many Hungarian Jews in Israel. So it's difficult to find an answer how it happened. And he [Netanyahu] was aware that it's an unnatural state of affairs and we should change it. ... We can say that the leadership of Hungary and Israel enjoy not just a political bond, but also have a connection that is based on mutual trust."

The relationship between you and Prime Minister Netanyahu goes well back ...

"I know him back for decades basically, because his party Likud has a privileged relationship with the EPP, the European People's Party in the European Parliament, that my political party belongs to. So therefore he was on my radar for decades, but the first important personal meeting happened when I visited Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

"I visited the Knesset and I invested some time to get know the personal political leadership of that time Israel, and I visited him also. And the conversation of that time was quite good. And I was aware how successful he was as a finance minister. Because he has a special understanding on economy. He's pro-market and at the same time a patriot. A good combination for Hungary. That was my idea. And I asked him, 'Could you advise us, because sooner or later our political community is getting back to power, because the Socialists [in government at the time] are destroying the country.' And he said, 'Of course.'"

Netanyahu said that Israel defends Europe. Do you agree?

"We are living in a time when the security interest of Israel and the security interests of Europe, including Hungary, are coinciding. It's so obvious. It's evident. So if Israel is not fighting against the militant terrorist groups, if Israel is not ready to support and cooperate with the moderate Arab states, a new invasion of migration will come to Europe."

You stated that Hungary has a lot to learn from Israel. Can you elaborate on that?

"The facts are obvious. Israel is a small country and has a per capita GDP that is three times bigger then ours. You do something [right] -- understand the figures, so you do something very well, which is quite unprecedented in the world economy. ... And Hungary belongs to European Union, but we would never give up our national identity. And Israel is strong on that. How do you organize your communities living outside Israel? Diaspora? How to create a community worldwide? I would like to say that we should understand Israel because we Hungarians like Israelis as a world nation. ... We have a diaspora also. Hungary suffered a lot throughout history and we lost many of our citizens. They left the country or they were persecuted or they fled from the country. And we have an understanding and challenge to put them together, to keep them together and Israel is doing that really well."

You said you have a policy of zero tolerance to anti-Semitism. But what do you say to the Jewish community members here in Hungary that claim that the campaign initiated by your government against Hungarian-born financier George Soros has evoked anti-Semitic feelings?

"Is this a paper where I can be honest on that issue?"

Sure.

"So first of all, the relationship between the political Right, center-right, Christian democratic, patriotic political camp I belong to and the Jewish community is very difficult. First of all because of history. We in our political community have to understand that the Jewish community suffered the biggest ever loss throughout the Holocaust, here in Hungary when a Christian democratic political party was on power. So therefore, when a political community like ours is declaring itself Christian, patriotic, and so on, it is automatically a red light in the minds of the Jewish community in Hungary, which is unavoidable because of history. So we have to invest energy to dissolve that kind of contradiction. ... Second, you know, anti-Semitism here in Hungary does exist sometimes ... and I have to be very clear on that: We will never tolerate any kind of anti-Semitic approach to issues; zero tolerance as we call it. ... So the Jewish community has sometimes a legitimate reason to feel that not everything is going in the proper way in Hungarian politics. The third one, which makes the relationship very complicated, is that at the same time the communists and the Left regularly use accusations of anti-Semitism against those who are not anti-Semitic. Even sometimes me. ... It's unfair. ... So all those issues make the cooperation between the Jewish community and the political Right -- patriotic Right or Christian democratic Right -- very complicated here in Hungary."

Your statement when you talked about sins of the Hungarian government during the Holocaust -- are we talking about sins or crimes?

"Crime is a legal interpretation of sins. ... I think saying sin is a stronger expression than a crime."

You have mentioned the issue of immigration. It seems that you are going to face a new wave arriving this summer. Is there anything that can be done to stop these human waves?

"I think Europe should make a decision whether we would like to survive, flourish, blossom, or dry out."

This is exactly what Netanyahu said.

"That's his sentence, and I think he is right. So a community, a group of countries without having an outside border which is defended, is not a community. So if you are not able to defend your community and you are not able to defend your border you will disappear, whether you like that truth of life or not, but this is a fact."

One of the things that the extremes, Left and Right, are cooperating on is anti-Zionism. French President Emmanuel Macron said this week that anti-Zionism is the face of the new anti-Semitism. Do you agree and do you think the EU should recognize it officially?

"I find this description a reasonable one. ... So, first of all I have to respect that but, this discussion should [come up] first inside the Jewish community. We are ready to take part in that discussion, but first of all we would not like to interfere in that discussion. Because I think first the Jewish community should clarify how they understand anti-Zionism, because anti-Zionism sometimes comes not from non-Jews, but ... from the Jewish guys. So therefore we should be very cautious with that, especially with Hungarian history.

"But I think I share the point of Netanyahu saying, look, guys, you can't say that I like Americans, but I don't like the United States. You can't say that I like the Jewish people, but I don't like Israel. So you can't say, I like the French people, but I disagree with having a state called France. So it sounds very obvious, but first of all I would like to remind you, that the Jewish community itself should discuss this point."


http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newslet ... p?id=44027
#14839879
QatzelOk wrote:That's an interestingly shrill quote from his speech. But there are many more that are much more juicy. (Translations into frank-talk in italics)


How dare a group of countries put conditions on relations with another one. You either love other countries how they are, or you bomb them. What's with all this beating around the bush. Either Israel is the best nation ever, or ... Europe dries up. :lol:


Israel is as far East as Europe goes. Europe has no race-colonies in India or China. Israel is as far East as European colonization has reached.

And in Brazil, the rich are forced to kiss Bibi's ass in order to get arms deals and logistical support they need to suppress their own population. Why can't Bibi find the same kind of ass-kissing among his peers?


Actually Mossad trained in Brazil not the other way around. Mossad has constant training with BOPE and C.O.R.E. Brazil's "rich" don't need to kiss Bibi's ass, Brazilian money doesn't come from wars, we got here without them, actually the only country in the top 10 economies that doesn't creates savagery around the world. Some might forget Brazil is larger in land mass than USA, we are a continental country. Brazilians in general and military have zero appreciation for Islam, in fact there's petitions signed to make Islam illegal because rape, racism, child marriage, everything Sharia stands for, is illegal in Brazil, there for building Mosques, temples that have the solo purpose of propagate illegal acts and propaganda is illegal. Brazil buys a lot of security gadgets from Israel, we love bullet proof things, cars, windows, doors. Give us something bullet proof and we are interest.

The other reason why Brazil has close ties to Israel is that we received all the phoenicians Christians butchered by Palestinian Muslims during the Holy war in Lebanon. Europe erased that war and pretends that what Palestinians Muslims did to lebanon never happened. In Brazil that war and the 2 atomic bombs thrown in Japan shall never be forgotten.

Brazilians admire Israelis and Japanese for their technology and we admire Germans and Russians for their perseverance and hard work, they rebuild their country over and over again. We don't mind learning and openly admiring other nations, unlike most European countries and USA.
#14840064
Politiks wrote:...The other reason why Brazil has close ties to Israel is that we received all the phoenicians Christians butchered by Palestinian Muslims during the Holy war in Lebanon. ...

Oh, so that's how Israel's elite got its agents inside Brazil's elite's pocketbooks - by sending Maronite allies to bribe them and "make deals" like Donald Trump makes.

This explains all the hate propaganda you have provided to this thread. Your political classes and elite are probably getting paid big-time to promote this kind of racism - in exchange for "fulfilling the security needs" of the corrupt-to-the-core Brazilian oligarchy.
#14840156
QatzelOk wrote:Oh, so that's how Israel's elite got its agents inside Brazil's elite's pocketbooks - by sending Maronite allies to bribe them and "make deals" like Donald Trump makes.

This explains all the hate propaganda you have provided to this thread. Your political classes and elite are probably getting paid big-time to promote this kind of racism - in exchange for "fulfilling the security needs" of the corrupt-to-the-core Brazilian oligarchy.



What hate propaganda?

@Politiks Brazil is well respected country. Don't worry about the opinions of jaded and cynical people. I think there are too many snobs in certain countries who always try their best to put everyone else down.
#14840250
QatzelOk wrote:Oh, so that's how Israel's elite got its agents inside Brazil's elite's pocketbooks - by sending Maronite allies to bribe them and "make deals" like Donald Trump makes.

This explains all the hate propaganda you have provided to this thread. Your political classes and elite are probably getting paid big-time to promote this kind of racism - in exchange for "fulfilling the security needs" of the corrupt-to-the-core Brazilian oligarchy.


LOL your post is so delusional. Listen pal, the only person spreading hate in this conversation is you and your arguments (lack of it) shows you can't properly base your hateful thoughts.

Your ignorance towards politics and economics is quite bizarre, I think you are in the wrong forum tbh
#14840767
Israel’s love-in with Hungary’s anti-Semites exposes the ugly core of Zionism
The official ideology of the state of Israel, Zionism, has always been an anti-Semitic political project. While Zionism projects itself as a solution to European anti-Semitism, in reality it has meant its continuation in spirit and practice.

The basic premise behind Zionism has always been a fundamentally anti-Jewish one. The idea that Jews are not genuine citizens of their countries of origin in Europe and elsewhere, and that they should leave to become settlers in a foreign country — Israel — is one that the political left has no trouble in recognising as anti-Semitic when it is uttered by the political right. When the same lie comes out of the mouths of Zionists, though (including some liberal and left-wing groups), they get a free pass because they support Israel. It’s time for this hypocrisy to end and admit that Zionism is anti-Semitism.

Yet more proof of this emerged earlier this month with the George Soros affair in Hungary. The right-wing government launched a blatantly anti-Semitic poster campaign targeting immigrants; posters displayed Soros’s smiling face and the caption, “Let’s not allow Soros to have the last laugh!”

A Hungarian-born Jew, Soros is a billionaire investor and funder of liberal causes via his Open Society Foundations. Beneficiaries of his largesse include groups which promote more open immigration policies.

The clearly implied message of the posters was that wealthy Jews are behind a plot to swamp Hungary with immigrants, a typical fascist propaganda lie. Human Rights Watch, an organisation partly-funded by Soros, condemned the campaign, saying that it “evokes memories of the Nazi posters during the Second World War.”

The Jewish community in Hungary voiced concerns too, and the Israeli embassy in Budapest initially did the same. However, hours later, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu — who is also the foreign minister — overruled the embassy in a statement issued by the foreign ministry. The “clarification” stated that George Soros “continuously undermines Israel’s democratically elected governments” and claimed that he funds organisations “that defame the Jewish state and seek to deny it the right to defend itself.”

Another group supported by Soros’s foundations is B’Tselem, the Israeli human rights group dedicated to documenting Israel’s abuses of Palestinians.

Netanyahu’s “clarification” was remarkable in that it offered support to Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban. Last month, Orban praised Hungary’s World War Two leader Miklos Horthy, calling him an “exceptional statesman.” Horthy was an ally of Adolf Hitler and his regime collaborated with the Nazis by deporting Jews. Half a million Hungarian Jews were killed in the Nazi Holocaust.

And yet Netanyahu gave his backing to the Hungarian leader in the run-up to his visit to Budapest earlier this month, during which he praised Orban’s pro-Israel credentials. “There is a new anti-Semitism that is expressed in anti-Zionism and that is in delegitimising the only Jewish state,” Netanyahu said after talks with Orban. “Hungary is, in many ways, at the forefront of the states that are opposed to this.”

This is Israeli policy in a nutshell: anti-Semitism is redefined from “hatred of Jews as Jews” to “criticism of Israel”. This has reached such an extreme peak that even non-Jewish Zionists are permitted to get away with the most outlandish anti-Jewish comments as long as they support Israel right or wrong.

The affair reminds us of a hideously anti-Semitic cartoon created in 2015 by a publicly-funded Israeli settlers’ organisation. The grotesque piece of propaganda was an all-out attack on B’Tselem, Yesh Din and other Israeli human rights groups. In it, a shifty-eyed, large-nosed character dubbed only “Ze Jew” has European coins tossed at him in exchange for inventing propaganda lies against Israel. A classically anti-Semitic piece of incitement against Jewish critics of Israel, it was even titled “The Eternal Jew” after a 1940 Nazi propaganda film.

As Haaretz put it recently in an editorial about the Soros affair, “Those who advance universalist agendas and fight for human rights, including the rights of minorities and foreigners, are denounced in Israel as enemies.”

Jewish activists in the Palestine solidarity movement in Britain routinely report being the victim of the most viciously anti-Semitic denunciations by Zionists, who often express the wish that the activists or their families had been killed in the Holocaust.

As for Soros, right-wing Hungary and right-wing Israel seem to have found common cause. Soon after Netanyahu backed Orban’s anti-Semitic campaign of incitement, a lawmaker in his hard-right Likud Party proposed what he called a “Soros Law” to block donations to left wing groups enjoying foreign funding.

Israel’s love-in with Hungary’s anti-Semites exposes the ugly core of Zionism. Its descent into ever more openly-expressed fascism continues apace.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170 ... f-zionism/
#14840774
Their alliance with the Polish and the Hungarian government in Europe, as well as with Trumpists in America, clearly tells who and what Zionists actually are. In my opinion it's a clearly short-sighted thing from the part of the Israeli government and a self-dangerous and counterproductive approach from Jews living in Europe or America.
#14840778
^ Indeed. Israel is all about projection, it has always been so.

Beren wrote:Their alliance with the Polish and the Hungarian government in Europe, as well as with Trumpists in America, clearly tells who and what Zionists actually are.


Finally.

Better late than never, eh. :D
#14840782
skinster wrote:^ Indeed. Israel is all about projection, it has always been so.



Finally.

Better late than never, eh. :D

I've never been a Zionist and most recent events and developments clearly show the dangers of Zionism. However, both George Soros (Soros György) and Theodor Herzl (Herzl Tivadar) were born in Pest (Budapest) of Hungary. We are a breeding pool it seems. :)
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