[noemon]

Ofsted has gone to court to argue it was right to rate a state-funded Islamic school in Birmingham as “inadequate” partly because it segregated pupils by sex from age nine.

ofsted-islam-case.jpg (50.62 KiB) Viewed 1294 times

The schools inspectorate gave Al-Hijrah school, which has pupils aged four to 16, the lowest possible grade after an inspection in June 2016, partly on the grounds that from the age of nine boys and girls are separated for all lessons, breaks, school trips and other activities. The school should enter special measures, Ofsted found.

Inspectors raised further concerns about the school, including finding books in the library that condoned violence against women and criticisms of record-keeping and safeguarding.

But the school challenged the inspection’s findings in a judicial review at the high court last November, and Mr Justice Jay found that neither girls nor boys were treated less favourably by being segregated. “There is no evidence in this case that segregation particularly disadvantages women,” he said.

Jay disagreed that Ofsted’s inspectors had been biased and allowed the rest of the report to be published, although the school Al-Hijrah was anonymised as School X, with the school to be placed into special measures.

The case reached the court of appeal on Tuesday. Ofsted’s lead barrister, Helen Mountfield, argued in court that although boys and girls might not receive less favourable treatment generally, “there is discrimination against individual girls and boys at this school, because a girl who wishes to socialise with a particular boy, but can’t, is treated less favourably”.

Mountfield gave the example of a “little gang” made up of both boys and girls who were close friends in the early years of primary school but were split up on grounds of their sex on entering year five.

She said: “There’s a particular detriment to girls ... if boys and girls in a school which is registered as a mixed-sex school lose the opportunity to work and socialise competently with members of the opposite sex and, as Ofsted says, they do go into the world unprepared for life in modern Britain, where they are expected to be able to work and socialise with members of the opposite sex. This imposes a particular detriment to girls as the group with a minority of power in our society.”

The segregation deprived girls of the ability to feel “comfortable and natural” around boys, she said.

Equalities legislation allows for entirely single-sex schools, or schools where the opposite sex is only allowed into sixth form. Within mixed-sex schools equality legislation allows some separation of classes, such as to allow pupils to ask frank questions in sex education, or to address an imbalance, such as running girls-only design and technology classes if it is felt it will encourage more girls to take up the subject.

The law allows for some religious separation, Mountfield said, such as in faith schools. But she added: “Once you’ve got a girl in your school, you can’t then subject her to discrimination in the education, the services, or the facilities you give her.”

Some pupils told inspectors they had no problem with the segregation, but others said they would prefer to be allowed to mix with members of the opposite sex, she told the court.

In the high court hearings, Al-Hijrah school argued that the gender segregation was one of its defining characteristics, and that the policy was clear to parents who wished to send their children there and to previous Ofsted inspectors, who had never raised it as a concern.

The Department for Education, the Equality and Human Rights Commission and the activist group Southall Black Sisters are intervening in the case.

The two-day hearing continues.

The Guardian

[SolarCross]

The only reason for state intervention in the funding and management of schools was to break the grip on the education market by religious institutions in order to give secularism, scientism and the like a chance to unconvert people back in the late 19th century.

This recent trend in the state offering public funds to religious institutions to run state schools is a totally insane turning on the head of that policy.

[Rugoz]

Jesus Christ, close those schools already. Public schools are the most important tool of integration.

[Decky]

Religion has no place in education, the right seem to love faith schools as they are all backwards and hate this country, the left want to she them shut down forever as we want to improve things here, leave that shit in the church, if adults want to adopt the insanity it is their business, there is no reason to force it onto kids. In normal day to day society men and women mix, forcing kids to be bought up in an environment where that never happens just dooms the kids to a lifetime for discomfort and incompetence is most public situations.

[skinster]

[One Degree]

Yawn. Another example of a government using tax dollars to force cultural conformity. Let us all be diverse culturally with the exact same mandated cultural norms. Parents willingly chose this school for their kids. It is what they want. The kids are free to rebel as teenagers as all teenagers do.

[Rugoz]

Yawn. Another example of a government using tax dollars to force cultural conformity.

Weren't you just emphasizing community over individuals right? Show some consistency.

[One Degree]

Weren't you just emphasizing community over individuals right? Show some consistency.

It is very consistent. Who wants this school to change? The people in the community or people outside the community?

Edit: I had to look up Ofsted since I was not familiar with it. I see it is a federal agency, so I don't understand your comment at all now.

[Rugoz]

It is very consistent. Who wants this school to change? The people in the community or people outside the community?

Well the "community" is clearly tiny compared to the larger community with legal authority, so it's a matter of individual rights.

[AFAIK]

The parents chose to live in the UK rather than one of 50 Muslim majority countries or one of several Islamic theocracies. You don't get to complain about secularism after choosing it.

Also the UK is smaller than many US states so calling Ofsted federal is inaccurate. If the European Court of Human Rights had made this ruling then that would be federal.

[Igor Antunov]

The only reason for state intervention in the funding and management of schools was to break the grip on the education market by religious institutions in order to give secularism, scientism and the like a chance to unconvert people back in the late 19th century.

This recent trend in the state offering public funds to religious institutions to run state schools is a totally insane turning on the head of that policy.

In some Australian states for example, Private (usually Christian) run schools that charge enormous tuition fees get to double dip, because the state governments offer them MORE MONEY than they give to public schools, which rely 100% on public funding.

i.e private for-profit religious schools receive more tax payer funding than government schools in absolute terms, despite charging the parents up to $20,000/year per student. In recent years they also introduced a chaplaincy service, replacing secular counselors; into many public schools, stressing the already limited budget by employing a higher paid clergy member to offer counseling to students (vs a secular counselor who gets paid less).

On the flip side this has had the effect of crushing leftist SJW-ism in the education system. Many new age feminist programs were simply axed or made outright illegal. But you're essentially trading one religious mantra for another. That said the religious schools greatly outperform public schools in all areas including math and science; but then they would, considering per capita the students there get much better teachers, facilities and enjoy smaller classrooms.

[One Degree]

The parents chose to live in the UK rather than one of 50 Muslim majority countries or one of several Islamic theocracies. You don't get to complain about secularism after choosing it.

Also the UK is smaller than many US states so calling Ofsted federal is inaccurate. If the European Court of Human Rights had made this ruling then that would be federal.

'Community' is a vague term and I believe Europeans see it as a larger area than maybe Americans due to greater acceptance of Socialism on a national level. I did not even consider the Muslim aspect of this issue because this debate is much older than that in the US at least. Segregation of the sexes has been pretty well abolished even though segregating the sexes in education definitely improves educational excellence. Most have chosen to hinder education in the name of 'equality' and then wonder why our educational systems are failing. This is why parents and the local community should be free to make these type of choices. It is a trade off that needs to be chosen.

[SolarCross]

In some Australian states for example, Private (usually Christian) run schools that charge enormous tuition fees get to double dip, because the state governments offer them MORE MONEY than they give to public schools, which rely 100% on public funding.

i.e private for-profit religious schools receive more tax payer funding than government schools in absolute terms, despite charging the parents up to $20,000/year per student. In recent years they also introduced a chaplaincy service, replacing secular counselors; into many public schools, stressing the already limited budget by employing a higher paid clergy member to offer counseling to students (vs a secular counselor who gets paid less).

On the flip side this has had the effect of crushing leftist SJW-ism in the education system. Many new age feminist programs were simply axed or made outright illegal. But you're essentially trading one religious mantra for another. That said the religious schools greatly outperform public schools in all areas including math and science; but then they would, considering per capita the students there get much better teachers, facilities and enjoy smaller classrooms.

Well indeed our secular schools in the UK are basically infested with the SJW religionists, I guess it was too much to hope for that schooling could be made secular. That being the case Australia has probably taken the path we all must take in the end and just let the Christians have education.

At least for the UK Christianity means the state religion of Anglicanism which is a totally tame version of Christianity which belongs wholly to the state anyway...

There is no particular reason that Christainity need get in the way of a good science education either as christianity just needs jesus it doesn't really need Genesis, the old testament nor Ptolemy and Aristotle. The Catholic Church made the mistake of being inflexible on that back in Galileo's day and even up till Darwin but have since seen the error of their ways and so basically retreated on that hybrid cosmology they had back then. It hasn't hurt their influence to do so either.

[Pants-of-dog]

First of all, the state should not be funding religious schools.

Secondly, most minority communities have solved these issues by sending their kids to a separate "school" type thing on the weekend where they learn the language, religion, etc. of whatever minority is doing it. Like Sunday school, only relative to each culture.

I do have one question for peope in the UK. Aren't a lot of schools already segregated by sex or gender? I may be dating myself by saying this, but a lot of films I have seen from the UK involve young men who have never seen a young girl because of the segregation. Is this no longer a thing?

[Decky]

I do have one question for peope in the UK. Aren't a lot of schools already segregated by sex or gender? I may be dating myself by saying this, but a lot of films I have seen from the UK involve young men who have never seen a young girl because of the segregation. Is this no longer a thing?

You are thinking of "public" (incredibly expensive fee paying) schools where our elite are educated, a tiny percentage (it varies between 4.5 and 5.5%) of people go to places like that. Saying that it is "no longer a thing" is inaccurate, it was never a thing that the majority of British children went to places like that.

Most go to mixed state schools and that has been the case for a very long time.

[Igor Antunov]

Yeah 'religious' schools in Australia are of the Anglican variety, so they are pretty much secular. They teach evolution in science class. They do have optional units of religious education. However in the first 6 years these classes are not optional. Just in high school. (7-12)

Most classes are delivered by teachers who also double up as clergy (priests, nuns-whatever their equivalents are in the protestant faith) and they tend to be more strict. Coupled with a smaller classroom there's less bullshit and more intensive education.

Many of my friends went through such private schools so they told me all this. I went through public education. So I can't fault these schools for their execution or performance, but I will take offence at the double dipping, tax payers should not be propping up privately/church run institutions that charge hefty fees. These churches don't even pay tax on their revenue streams.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Decky

Thank you, as that explains a lot about those films.

[SolarCross]

I do have one question for peope in the UK. Aren't a lot of schools already segregated by sex or gender? I may be dating myself by saying this, but a lot of films I have seen from the UK involve young men who have never seen a young girl because of the segregation. Is this no longer a thing?

What films would that be?

Anyway to answer the question. State schools such as are inspected by Ofsted have been co-ed since the state first captured the education market back the late 19th century. Today the vast majority of people go through state schools for their education, Decky implies 95%, and that seems about right.

However these days many private* schools are also co-ed though many are also single sex. I suspect the main reason for single sex schools is that parents worry that their daughters might get knocked up if exposed to random randy boys. This a particularly acute worry when the school is a boarding school obviously as many private schools are.

However if the girls are separated from the boys then the boys only have each other and that leads to gayism. So parents now are more worried about their sons being sent gay than they are their daughters will get preggers.

* Inexplicably they are called "public" schools in the UK - I guess this is "public" in the sense of open to the public? Like bars in the UK are called pubs as in public house, but they are all privately owned but open to the public...

[Decky]

* Inexplicably they are called "public" schools in the UK - I guess this is "public" in the sense of open to the public? Like bars in the UK are called pubs as in public house, but they are all privately owned but open to the public...

The church used to have a monopoly on education when the first non church schools became a big thing they were referred to as pubic schools as they were open to the general public (if your parents were one of the tiny minority of the public who could afford the frees) rather than your education being a privilege bestowed onto you by the church if it decided you were worth educating.