US lists Pakistan among countries that provide ‘safe haven’ to terrorists - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14825268
Hamas are terrorists the fact that you cant admit it is fucking pathetir

Hamas during the second intifada have been sending suicide bombers to blow themselves up in buses restaurants night clubs how is that not terrorism?
also shooting rockets at civilians is also terrorism

Hezbollah same as Hamas

Houthis flag says: God is Great, Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse on the Jews, Victory to Islam"

enough to consider them as terrorists

fuck those guys
#14825270
I know they're bad. But if they're terrorists, and you do exactly the same as they do. Then you must, by default, be also terrorists. Are you ?

Hezbollah fought you in battle and fucked you, and if it targetted civilians then Israelis will be counting casualties in the thousands instead of just having mainly military casualties. On the other hand Israel have either majority civilian casualties in their operations or exclusively civilian casualties.
So explain how exactly are they the terrorists when you're the one doing the terrorism and plus, supporting other terrorist groups like Alnusra and Al-qaeda ?

For the houthis. Well, yea, fuck America and Fuck Israel. Both are right wing expansionist imperial genocidal countries running around spreading chaos and destruction all over the place and around the world. And for the Jews, you've been literally fucking their lives for decades. I would say they have sufficient reasons to hate you. And they're generalizing, true. But isn't that what you yourself do literally everywhere ? why is it bad when they do it but good when you do it ?

Now considering that they haven't attacked you or done any terrorist attacks against anyone, while your side in one hand supported terrorists to attack them and do terror attacks against their people, and even went on to do the terrorism directly. I will make a valid assumption based on the facts that your side are the terrorists here.
#14825272
if it targetted civilians then Israelis will be counting casualties in the thousands instead of just having mainly military casualties.


I spent 30 days in that war and every day Hezbollah was firing rockets on my city

dont fucking tell me Hezbollah is not targeting civilians there were no military targets nearby or in the city

I know they're bad. But if they're terrorists, and you do exactly the same as they do. Then you must, by default, be also terrorists. Are you ?


Israel is not doing the same thing if you had a little bit of brain combined with logic you would understand but I think arguing with someone who says that Iran is a democracy is pretty much a waste of time

have fun living in your own imaginary world
#14825274
anasawad wrote:The primary reason for the conflict in Syria is Saudi Arabia and Qatar with Cooperation with Turkey trying to control Syria to pass a pipeline towards Europe so European countries can reduce dependency on Russia in Fossil fuels and Gas in particular.


Lol the pipeline nonsense.

anasawad wrote:Iran did play a role in the conflict, but no where near that of countries like Saudi Arabia or the US.


I'm not singling out the Syrian conflict in particular. By removing Saddam Bush handed over Iraq to Iran thus creating an imbalance in the region.
#14825276
@Zionist Nationalist
So what you're telling me is that, basically, even though Hezbollah have scud missiles and targeted missiles and it targeted civilians but for some unknown reason, it couldn't hit anyone ?
You do realize military targets are not just troops and tanks right ? There are things called logistic lines which needs to be destroyed when at war.
And Hezbollah almost exclusively targeted those inside of Israel.
Specially true considering that Tel Aviv and other major cities were in range of its missiles and before Israel had a missile defense system.

And i lived through the war too, i knew first hand what Hezbollah was targeting and what were they trying to accomplish because my own family helped with the weapons.

Israel is not doing the same thing if you had a little bit of brain combined with logic you would understand but I think arguing with someone who says that Iran is a democracy is pretty much a waste of time

Then do try to explain, because you always seem to avoid any argument with some dumbass excuse when ever i bring up this point.
How exactly is what Israel is doing any different other than being 100s of times bigger and more deadly than that of which Hamas does ?
Israel kills 2000 in an operation. Hamas kills 2 civilians in an operation.
Israel obliterates entire cities' infrastructures. Hamas tries to attack infrastructure.

The only difference between Hamas and Israel is that Israel is a much more efficient criminal. And not because of its own superiority. No, because it has a whole lot of idiots to foot the bill for weapons across Europe and north America.

Even if we want to take terrorism by definition.
"the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."
Shall we go through your leaders' statements to see those political reasons behind those massacres your forces committed ? Because there are plenty of those.

Ooh and i see you just skipped the little points about Iraq and Yemen and the acclaimed "terrorism" in them. What ? You came to realization that the actual terrorists are the ones fighting on your side and supported by you and your allies ?
Maybe we can talk about the "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan and how according to you and other Israelis and pro-Israel members here, supported by Iran. Not the US, no no god forbid, Iran is the one supporting those two.


But please. Don't mind those uncomforting facts. Go ahead and tell us how you're always the victim. And how you're living in terror everyday from those evil MUSLIMS around you.


@Rugoz
Lol the pipeline nonsense.


You mean this nonsense;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar%E2% ... y_pipeline
Which was rejected so this one could be built
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq-Syria_pipeline
And the "revolution" just started right after the Iran pipeline was established ?

I'm not singling out the Syrian conflict in particular. By removing Saddam Bush handed over Iraq to Iran thus creating an imbalance in the region.

And ? You mean that Iraq should remain under the control of the minority Sunni population and the persecution and ethnic cleansing of the Shia majority in the country should continue just so we can maintain "balance" in the region ?

Iraq was already well in alliance with Iran far before Saddam ever came along. Not official alliance but what i mean is that between the people.
Go to south of Iraq now and half of them speak Persian because they're an extention of the Iranian Arabs. And thats a large portion of the population.
Most of the country's Shias are Shias because of the Safavid empire. And even the Kurds in Iraq already had good relations with Iran before Saddam came along. Which is why they took the side of Iran in the war and thus Saddams attacks on them. They're long term allies.

Saddam is the one who ruined the actual balance when he took control by force with support of the gulf states and the US, and began persecuting the local population which led to all the following retaliations after the collapse of his regime.


EDIT: @Rugoz
The only part which Iran did play in the formation of ISIS is that during the Iraqi civil war, multiple groups in Iran sent death squads to retaliate against former Baath leaders and supporting communities that did crimes against their people in Iran.
But even with that, the only group that formed was the Islamic state in Iraq holding the last remaining fighting force of the Baath party and it was about to be killed off sooner than latter. It managed to grow stronger and spread and turn into ISIS when it mixed with the Syrian "rebels" mainly groups the deserted Al-qaeda ranks in Syria (Al-nusra front), also others from the Islamic front and the FSA.
Ofcourse taking with them all the weapons that the US, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar, etc sent them to ISIS. And those weapons supports are public not some conspiracy theory. Check the news history.

So without all those countries boosting up the Islamists, none of what goes on today would be happening. And the Syrian war started as a coup by the way. A coup that was supported and funded by Turkey and Saudi Arabia with the leaders of this coup holding their meetings in Turkey. Thats the FSA if you're wondering. The Islamists support came after this failed.
#14825279
Zionist Nationalist wrote:Hamas are terrorists the fact that you cant admit it is fucking pathetir

Hamas during the second intifada have been sending suicide bombers to blow themselves up in buses restaurants night clubs how is that not terrorism?
also shooting rockets at civilians is also terrorism

Hezbollah same as Hamas

Houthis flag says: God is Great, Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse on the Jews, Victory to Islam"
enough to consider them as terrorists

fuck those guys


How can they possibly be 'terrorists'? Like the French Resistance they are fighting to free their country from nazi colonists. All power to them!
#14825286
anasawad wrote:You mean this nonsense;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar%E2% ... y_pipeline
Which was rejected so this one could be built
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq-Syria_pipeline
And the "revolution" just started right after the Iran pipeline was established ?


It makes no sense. This article sums it all up nicely:

http://www.middleeasteye.net/essays/pip ... -144022537
#14825287
@anasawad

Anasawad do you know how those rockets even work?

Hezbollah durin 2006 was using (for short range) primitive rockets they had no ability to aim them on specific targets
those rockets are being aimed by degrees if you are in spot x you aim them lets say 60 degrees to approximatly hit spot y thats it

its a primitive weapon Hezbollah cant kill thousands with it especially in a country that is well prepared for such scenarios

but it dosent mean that they didnt aimed at civilians



Then do try to explain, because you always seem to avoid any argument with some dumbass excuse when ever i bring up this point.
How exactly is what Israel is doing any different other than being 100s of times bigger and more deadly than that of which Hamas does ?
Israel kills 2000 in an operation. Hamas kills 2 civilians in an operation.
Israel obliterates entire cities' infrastructures. Hamas tries to attack infrastructure.


Hamas hiding behind civilian population combined with Israels iron dome also the alarms in Israel that work like 15 seconds before the rockets launch
is what causing the massive casualties ratio

also not 2000 civilians killed in gaza but about 1000 to 1200 the numbers are unclear since none really tried to distinguish civilians from combatants

Israel does not try to kill civilians unlike Hamas for Israel its counterproductive because then come people around the world and say "look at those evil zionists children murderesr" its great for Hamas but bad for Israel
makes no sense for Israel to kill civilians intentionally
#14825289
@Rugoz
So basically you quoted an article saying that the pipeline is not the cause, but yes the gulf states and its allies did start the war ?

Now i didn't finish reading it, but just a quick note from skimming it.
Russia and Iran though yes would be rivals in the regard of gas exports. But the purpose is political. Its the leverage Russia and Iran would have over Europe's supplies incase sanctions crossed the minds of the US or western Europeans. Basically the ability to fight back.

For the Iraq part. Iran already had plans in progress to build up Iraq regardless of any pipeline. So saying that Iraq needs infrastructure is a rather ignorant point since there were already plans to build it up. The delay is due to the conflict as the support turned to weapons and basic supplies support.

For the Iran part and the import of gas.
This would ignore pretty much 20 or so % of the government added spending (not basic spending). Since Iran has been moving away from developing its refineries and facilities to cover its domestic consumption since i believe 2007 or 2008. Rather it stuck to exporting most of its production and for the finished products locally it imported a significant portion of it as its turning to nuclear energy and biofuels for domestic consumption due to pollution concerns.
Basically, those imports are temporary expenses that are being replaced by a new source.

Either way. This doesn't mean that the main problem and the main culprits are the gulf states, Turkey and the US as they have given the biggest support that allowed those groups to rise and the situation to deteriorate so far.
Blaming everything on Iran is just pushing narrative and factually incorrect.

@Zionist Nationalist
Hezbollah had more than the Katyusha rockets. Those small ones cant be targeted, true, but they also cant reach Israeli cities.
Hezbollah also had heavy missiles and anti ship missiles along with drones back then. All were used against military targets.
The only thing Hezbollah did during the war that could be said to be terrorism was sending text messages and giving the illusion to the Israeli people that certain areas will be targeted with heavy missiles to spread panic in Israel. It didn't do that even though Israel hadn't yet developed a defense system against its missiles back then.

You can check all the targets in the war on the Israeli side. The only civilians who were killed or were near attacks were either near a military base specially near the borders where the first battles and raids were taking place. Or simply factories and storage's and highways going up north.
Those were targeted even though some were civilian, true, but they were used for military purposes which is why they were targeted. You did the exact same thing with the lines on our side as well.
No residential areas or markets or civilian targets were declared targets or were targeted specifically anytime during the war by Hezbollah or any Lebanese side (thats why only 40 people got killed during the entire war) . while many residential areas were carpet bombed by Israel.
Crossfire counts as war casualties and not specific targeting.


What i do know about the war which is still a considered fact in Lebanon today, is that the Israeli government started publishing media pieces about potential targets both military and civilian based on the range of the missiles Hezbollah is using. And claimed that Hezbollah was planning to attack them. Even though Hezbollah it self never declared those targets while it was declaring other targets. And even started focusing on media coverage after the war just to discrediting the bullshit that the Israeli government was publishing.
And even multiple groups around the world called the Israeli government out on those allegations.


For the Hamas hiding behind civilians myth you keep spreading.
Even the UN stated very clearly that Israel intentionally bombed civilian areas and shelters and UN hospitals and schools that were warned by people on the ground to have no Hamas presence anywhere in or around them.
Thats not Hamas hiding behind civilians, hamas weren't even around in those places. Thats war crimes and intentional targeting of civilian populations. And if we were to take the word of your own leaders, it was to "bring silence". Basically to intimidate the Palestinians into submission. Thats called terrorism.
So while Hamas does in many cases terrorists attacks. Israel also does the exact same thing and neither of you are any better than each other. Infact if Hamas were savages, then you'd be even worse than they are since you have the means not to kill and terrorize civilians and to block any of their attempts in ease, but rather intentionally choose to go the other way.
Last edited by anasawad on 20 Jul 2017 15:26, edited 1 time in total.
#14825290
@anasawad

Hezbollah in 2006 didnt succeed in firing long range missiles because they were destroyed

and the small rockets can reach Israeli cities what the fuck are you talking about I think you completely have no knowledge about this subject

civilians that were killed were not anywhere near military targets stop fucking bullshiting
there were rockets that have landed 200 meters from my house there is no any fucking military bases around here

cut the bullshit you just dont know what you are talking about
#14825295
@Zionist Nationalist
Really ? There were destroyed ? Thats why they've been successfully used against your navy. They were so destroyed that they could easily be fired.

And no, small rockets cant reach Israeli cities. It has a range of 20-30 Km. Thats not enough to reach any major city rather only the small villages around the borders.
Medium range missiles could reach Israeli cities and those were mainly against military targets and supply lines. As stated in every possible source about the war.


For the civilians. Only 40 civilians died in Israel, so you're the one who should cut the bullshit about the "mass bombardment" by Hezbollah missiles.
And if you looked at the locations. You would, unsurprisingly, see that they're near factories, or high ways the IDF used, or airbases, outright military bases and outposts.
Thats in an area with over a million civilians all of them being in large residential areas, in range of Hezbollah missiles, and without any defense against them.
So you're the one who should cut the bullshit and propaganda you keep pushing about how you never targeted civilians but the evil people on the other side kept targeting only civilians.

You want to know how would the situation be if Hezbollah targeted civilian areas with its missiles ? You can have a look at the Zelzal 1 and 2 which Hezbollah had 100s of during the war and those can reach major cities in Israel.
1 of them is sufficient to knock down a neighbor hood. Casualties would be in the 1000s if just those were used against cities during the war.

They were only used against military targets if you're wondering, and at the point, Israel couldn't block any of them.

Even the short range missiles like the Fajr and Khaiber which each carried between 50-100 Kilo explosive warhead could cause 100s of casualties among civilians, yet not a single one attacked residential areas or hospitals or open markets or anything. And those come with a targeting system if you're wondering.

Weird right ?
Its like your argument just flew out of the window all of the sudden.
#14825299
And no, small rockets cant reach Israeli cities. It has a range of 20-30 Km. Thats not enough to reach any major city rather only the small villages around the borders.



you are wrong.

my city located just 20 km from the border also here are list of cities within 30km
nahariya, acre, kirtay shmona, karmiel, zefat, maalot. thats not including all the smaller towns who were targeted aswell

also hezbollah was using fajr 3 rockets to raget haifa which have a range of 45km



here is a great source for you https://www.hrw.org/report/2007/08/28/c ... l-2006-war

However, the legality of attacks under international humanitarian law must be measured attack by attack, so the fact that some attacks may have hit military targets does not in itself justify other attacks that did not.


Hezbollah rockets repeatedly hit populated areas in Israel. In some of those cases, we could find no evidence there had been a legitimate military target in the vicinity at the time of the attack, suggesting it was a deliberate attack on civilians. In other cases, we found that there had been a military object in the vicinity but, even assuming Hezbollah had been intending to hit the military target instead of civilians, the unguided rockets it used was incapable of distinguishing between the two. At the time of attack, Hezbollah also failed to take all feasible precautions to minimize loss of civilian life, such as by issuing "effective advance warning . . . of attacks which may affect the civilian population."[2]
#14825302
@Zionist Nationalist
1- Fajr 3 is a balistic missile with a range of 1000+ km carrying 3 warheads inside of it. And it just finished testing right before the war and didn't enter production until after it.
Hezbollah used if i recall correctly the Zelzal missiles to attack Haifa. And the attack was declared before beginning aiming to attack factories and utility infrastructures. Thats why the main results were property damage in and around the targeted areas and no high civilian counts, which was 10 or so people.
The city was yet not evacuated at the time of the attacks.
You can look up Hezbollah statements during the war, they declared all targets before or during the attack on it.


Fajr missiles, which back then were the heaviest in Hezbollah possession were used against military bases and ships.

And the general series varies between short, mid, and long range missiles with different cargos and capacities. The method for them is the same so they're called the same name.

Edit: If you're talking about the Fajr artillery rockets. Those are the 1 and 2 mainly used.
I don't recall the Fajr 3 rockets being used as most of the supplies were of the first 2 generations.
However the fajr balistic missiles were on the ground and used multiple times. The earlier versions of them.
Edit 2: Ok, clearify which one you refer too. say their names correctly. Missiles and rockets are not the same. If there was ever to be a discussion on it.
EDIT: Shit, you said rockets. Ok, never mind the whole paragraph above. misread initial comment.
I'm talking about the missiles not the artilery rockets. The different variations of the Fajr missiles back then could destroy entire neighborhoods each. Those were used against military targets even when Hezbollah and other groups had many of them available.


For your quote. I will again repeat. Look at the numbers and at the capabilities and at the declared targets and statements.
If there purpose was to target civilians, the number of casualties wont be 40.
Even in the begining of the article you are quoting it stated that Hezbollah leaders did infact state that they are not going to target civilians, and Israeli leaders stating that yes they can see whats the targets of the attack.

The facts remain the if Hezbollah wanted to target civilians, it had the capacity to level down entire areas with the missiles it had and it didn't.
While Israel had the capacity to level down entire areas and did it. This is directly reflected in the numbers and in the type of targets and bombardment each side commenced.
Last edited by anasawad on 20 Jul 2017 16:26, edited 1 time in total.
#14825307
This is fajr 3 does this looks like a 1000km missile to you?

I cant argue with someone so stubborn like you who have no idea what he is talking about

check your facts first

Image


Hezbollah used if i recall correctly the Zelzal missiles to attack Haifa


no zelzal missiles were not used Hezbollah intended to use them but they got destroyed

its hard to operate such big missiles without getting spotted


Thats why the main results were property damage in and around the targeted areas and no high civilian counts, which was 10 or so people.



44

seriously check your facts
#14825309
This is fajr 3 does this looks like a 1000km missile to you?

I cant argue with someone so stubborn like you who have no idea what he is talking about

check your facts first

There is Fajr 3 missiles and Fajr 3 rockets.
Not the same.


no zelzal missiles were not used Hezbollah intended to use them but they got destroyed

its hard to operate such big missiles without getting spotted

Just like the Anti-ship missiles that were used ? Were those too small to be spotted by the Israelis ?
or their mobile launching platforms being large trucks ?

Zelzal missiles were used multiple times during the war. You're the one who need to check his facts here. Along with several other mid range missiles.
44

seriously check your facts

And 44 died in the overall war. mainly in the north of Israel where the engagements took place.
10 or less died in Haifa.
#14825310
anasawad wrote:There is Fajr 3 missiles and Fajr 3 rockets.
Not the same.


And 44 died in the overall war. mainly in the north of Israel where the engagements took place.
10 or less died in Haifa.


what engagements Hezbollah didnt invade Israel all the civilians were killed by rocket attacks

There were more than 10 people killed in Haifa but I dont know the exact number

I was talking about the fajr 3 rocket not the missile

but you get the point
#14825313
@Zionist Nationalist
There were multiple cross border raids across the first period of the war by Hezbollah. Along with the initial engagements on the borders lasting for a few days. Most of the Israeli civilians who got killed died during these days.
For Haifa, there were several 100s of rockets launched at Haifa targeting several structures within the city. Along with a number of missiles attacking targets in the surroundings of the city.

Through all of them, only 10 or so people died. Which means that Hezbollah missiles could reach civilian and residential areas, as well as their rockets, and could deliver high explosive strikes against those areas as they did to multiple military targets through out the war. But didn't.
So when the party said they'll do their best to minimize civilian casualties, they stood by it and avoided civilian casualties as much as possible.

Even the bombing of or near civilian areas for targets that were of minor significance. It was done to intimidate and not kill.

Even your own administration on multiple occasions stated that Hezbollah's missile arsenal could do heavy damage to Israel at any time and that it rivals that of most Arab states. So you know that Hezbollah could have targeted civilians and caused large numbers of casualties yet it didn't.

Israel on the other hand carpet bombed residential areas that were inside of cities.
#14825318
[Zag Note: Guys, can we please try to stay on the original topic? I will be restricting things after this point. There are a number of threads about your topic, or you could start a new one. This is a news story about Pakistan.]
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