Muslim mother takes legal action against school over face veil ban - Page 6 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14827143
Buzz62 wrote:Image
We are "Individual rights-ing" ourselves into the realm of utter stupidity. And we're ripe for the taking. Weak. Docile. Splintered.
We award ourselves "rights" and "freedoms" that are asinine.

I've sat here over the last couple years, opposing neo-cons and their incredibly damaging economic views, the iraq war, the healthcare debate...which continues, etc, etc, etc...And I got engaged with a very smart woman who's position...about 2 years ago...was finish the Arab nations off once and for all. I argued against this because I found the idea deplorable. Today...not so much I'm afraid.

FREEDOM is a PRIVILEGE! Not a right.
You have but one real right from the moment you are born. The right to die.
We have gotten so creamy and silly, that people can actually wear spaghetti strainers on their heads in official documents now. We've taken leave of any common sense, what so ever.
Apparently, we can't really be trusted to determine what our "individual rights" should be.



This is just silly. In paternalistic societies in which women are reduced to sexual objects and forced to dress either to encourage male arousal of not to do so, clearly they are not free. Individual rights, clearly, are to do whatever you please if it doesn't interfere with the rights of others.
#14827160
Buzz62 wrote:So don't read the articles if it hurts your poor, privileged, self-defeating sensibilities.

Europe is in crisis.
The very foundations of the European society...YOUR society...are under open and violent attack.
And you think it's a non-issue.
Can you find pleasure hitting yourself with a baseball bat too?


If you think an entire continent is in crisis because a single woman wants to wear a veil while visiting her daughter's school, then you are making a big deal out of nothing.

This is almost certainly due to "your poor, privileged, self-defeating sensibilities."
#14827178
Pants-of-dog wrote:If you think an entire continent is in crisis because a single woman wants to wear a veil while visiting her daughter's school, then you are making a big deal out of nothing.

This is almost certainly due to "your poor, privileged, self-defeating sensibilities."

Actually...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 19656.html
And I found this interesting;
The article above wrote:Most of the migrant boats come from Libya following the UK-based removal of dictator Muammar Gaddafi. This allowed smugglers to set up lucrative trafficking routes from African nations, the Middle East and Bangladesh to Europe.

Hmmm...I don't see Syria on that list.
Image
Wait a minute...those people aren't Arabs from Syria...
I thought "most" of the refugees were escaping the war in Syria?
So does Europe have a crisis? Yes.

So why worry about something like a scarf on a female's face?
Well first of all, if one migrates to a completely different society and culture, one would be well advised to adopt that society and culture as best as one can. Because if one refuses to do so, one will be stopped periodically and have their differences pointed out and made example of. One would be the target for further and even more severe isolation. Thus it is self-defeating to migrate to a place where the social norms are completely different than what you are used to, and insist on bringing your social norms with you.
Secondly, whether you like it or not, Arab/Muslim people are causing a crisis in Europe on the immigration front, as well as the security front. So that a woman who insists on wearing a scarf in public, henceforth put a target on her back which someone...maybe a school...is gonna take aim at.

If I took my wife to the place where that woman was originally from, and dressed her in her tightest mini skirt, how many blocks do you figure we get on our sight seeing tour, before someone hit her with a cane? :knife:
#14827185
@Buzz62

So, because you decided (incorrectly and with no evidence) that I wish to destroy western civilisation, I am no longer ever correct about anything? Or, I am worth responding to, but not in any way that requires logic or evidence?

This is a non-story. Some woman wants to wear something ridiculous and we are supposed to care? We are supposed to imagine that this means that all of Europe is about to be engulfed in war or something?
#14827287
Pants-of-dog wrote:So, because you decided (incorrectly and with no evidence) that I wish to destroy western civilisation, I am no longer ever correct about anything? Or, I am worth responding to, but not in any way that requires logic or evidence?

You ignore arguments and evidence that don't corroborate your point of view POD.
And having read your views, I find most are lacking in any sort of reason. It seems your world is some politically correct utopia.

Pants-of-dog wrote:This is a non-story. Some woman wants to wear something ridiculous and we are supposed to care? We are supposed to imagine that this means that all of Europe is about to be engulfed in war or something?

A non-story...
It's a symptom POD.
Just like this is a symptom.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/15/first-ima ... t-6781279/
My wife pointed this out to me today. She's Czech, and one of the other women was a Czech woman trying to soak up the sun on an Egyptian holiday. She's clinically dead now.

But this too would be a non-story.
Because, as we all know, the world is a pretty place with butterflies and goodness in the hearts of all men. And when things don't work out in a warm and fuzzy fashion, we should let murderous rapists into our world because...that's the PC thing to do...
#14827329
Buzz62 wrote:You ignore arguments and evidence that don't corroborate your point of view POD.
And having read your views, I find most are lacking in any sort of reason. It seems your world is some politically correct utopia.


Your opinion of me is irrelevant.

A non-story...
It's a symptom POD.
Just like this is a symptom.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/15/first-ima ... t-6781279/
My wife pointed this out to me today. She's Czech, and one of the other women was a Czech woman trying to soak up the sun on an Egyptian holiday. She's clinically dead now.

But this too would be a non-story.
Because, as we all know, the world is a pretty place with butterflies and goodness in the hearts of all men. And when things don't work out in a warm and fuzzy fashion, we should let murderous rapists into our world because...that's the PC thing to do...


So, how does this story about a veil somehow logically tie in with murdering rapists?

Please explain. Thanks!
#14827338
@Buzz62
A non-story...
It's a symptom POD.
Just like this is a symptom.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/15/first-ima ... t-6781279/
My wife pointed this out to me today. She's Czech, and one of the other women was a Czech woman trying to soak up the sun on an Egyptian holiday. She's clinically dead now.

But this too would be a non-story.
Because, as we all know, the world is a pretty place with butterflies and goodness in the hearts of all men. And when things don't work out in a warm and fuzzy fashion, we should let murderous rapists into our world because...that's the PC thing to do...

If we were going to use this first grade dumb debating strategy. We can go ahead and start sourcing details of murders and rapes and all those things in western countries to show how westerners are all murderous rapist savages.

There are actually more material now across the west, specially in the US since there is a spike in murders and rapes (BTW, almost no refugees went there) and all sort of violent crime.
(Don't tell me, the Mexicans did it now ? )


Sorry, i forgot the rules here. If a Muslim did a crime, then all Muslims must be criminals. But if a westerner did a crime, its just an individual case that doesn't reflect the image of his\her community as a whole.


Seriously dude, you have been spewing dumb bullshit since days and so far you haven't said a single smart thing since you returned.

If we were to use your retarded standards to judge nations and communities, European and north American societies and nations would be considered a land of blood thirsty savages at best case scenario.
#14827492
anasawad wrote:If we were going to use this first grade dumb debating strategy. We can go ahead and start sourcing details of murders and rapes and all those things in western countries to show how westerners are all murderous rapist savages.

Ya you could. And the obvious response would be that we obviously have our own nut cases. We do not need to import more of them.

anasawad wrote:There are actually more material now across the west, specially in the US since there is a spike in murders and rapes (BTW, almost no refugees went there) and all sort of violent crime.
(Don't tell me, the Mexicans did it now ? )

Until we see the Arab/Muslim people acting grateful for being saved from the wars of the Middle East, instead of the crap we see now, I will support Donny's travel ban and would have it expanded. I will also support any Canadian candidate who also puts his or her country's people and security BEFORE the whims of a pack of PC minded losers.


anasawad wrote:Sorry, i forgot the rules here. If a Muslim did a crime, then all Muslims must be criminals. But if a westerner did a crime, its just an individual case that doesn't reflect the image of his\her community as a whole.

Do you have any idea how dopey that sounds?
Have I ever said "all Muslims"?
No. In fact, I said "all refugees".
But I suppose when you have no real argument to make, twisting one's words and hoping nobody sees it, is your only recourse. Sad really...


anasawad wrote:Seriously dude, you have been spewing dumb bullshit since days and so far you haven't said a single smart thing since you returned.

If we were to use your retarded standards to judge nations and communities, European and north American societies and nations would be considered a land of blood thirsty savages at best case scenario.

And these "refugees" are taxing the patience of us "blood thirsty savages".
#14827511
@Buzz62
Until we see the Arab/Muslim people acting grateful for being saved from the wars of the Middle East, instead of the crap we see now, I will support Donny's travel ban and would have it expanded. I will also support any Canadian candidate who also puts his or her country's people and security BEFORE the whims of a pack of PC minded losers.


You start a war, destroy a country, most of the refugees go to sorrounding countries. But a small portion goes to Europe and thus all the people in the region should be grateful to you for taking a portion of the refugees you played a major role in creating ?

Here is an idea. Instead of continuing to vote for warmongers in your countries acting to destroy entire countries not only in the middle east but across the world and thus having to hold responsibility to take in some of the refugees you create.
Why not try for once vote for an administration that doesn't prey on weaker nations. This way you don't have to take refugees from anywhere. And no one in the world gets their nation destroyed and be forced to become a refugee.
Because, though the topic here is about Muslims, these same arguments have been made constantly about multiple groups of refugees from all around the world in your nations that all of them became refugees through the UN after your administration destroyed their countries or started the war that made them refugees.

Do you have any idea how dopey that sounds?

Thats literally your argument in the past few days. Its just summarized in a couple of sentences.

Have I ever said "all Muslims"?
No. In fact, I said "all refugees".


Actually no, your statements vary, but its either all immigrants or all refugees or all Arabs or everyone in the middle east or Muslims in general.

But I suppose when you have no real argument to make, twisting one's words and hoping nobody sees it, is your only recourse. Sad really...

Except i wasn't making an argument there. I was just referring to the stupidity in the arguments you're making.

And these "refugees" are taxing the patience of us "blood thirsty savages".

And it is your responsibility to take the refugees you create, you know, like everyone else does. You should be thanking other nations who are taking most of the refugees resulting from your wars on the expense of their own benefit and economy instead of outright refusing to do anything and let you handle the mess you create in full.

But i guess in such case like that of the middle east currently, its not surprising that you'd act like that.
I mean even your accomplices in the gulf states are acting exactly the same by not taking any refugees from the wars they start including Syria.
The more years pass by, the more you seem to have in common with your buddies there.
Must be proud.
#14827514
We didn't start the war in Syria...that would be Assad and the Arab people in Syria.
I used to vote and support the PC liberal agenda. Then a kiddie concert was blown up and a bunch of kids died at the hands of a Muslim extremist.
That was the last straw for me. As far as I'm concerned...all refugees need to be unceremoniously rounded up, sent back to where they came from, and deal with their own issues while we simply encircle the area and watch the fireworks.!

Enjoy that...because as we all can see...it's coming.
#14827517
Actually you did. The war in Syria started by a military coup, which was organized by the US, Uk, France, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the rest of the gulf states.
Thats why the held all their meetings in your countries.
When the coup failed, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, the US and the UK started sending weapons to Islamists. With Hillary Clinton and the Obama administration publicly declaring multiple times they're sending weapons and funds and talk about regime change.
You know, the same strategy you used in 20 or so countries before Syria around the world.

For that concert you keep mentioning.
You blow up weddings, hospitals, schools, shelters, homes, open markets, etc. All over the world and continuously over the decades.
So cut the bullshit.


For the "its coming". I would say whats coming is more economic crises in your part of the world, internal instability, more political divide, more poverty thats for sure. Basically all the things that usually happens when a nation or union of nations are on their way down the hill.
So, yes, I will enjoy that. It'll be a good change in world politics to see that you finally fucked up your own countries and no longer can spread chaos and destruction else where in the world.
#14827536
I don't see Canada in your list. Funny that...

Be that as it may, it's no secret what the Saudis and the Americans did. nor is it a secret why they did it.
From 9/11 to now, the Middle East has been the focus of some sort of sinister plan to destabilize the region beyond reason.
Whether these unsavory results are part of a plan, or just the consequences of extreme stupidity, is unknown.
Personally I'd like to "do" the Saudis first, then round up Bush and his merry band of criminals against humanity, and stuff them all in a hole in Mexico.
But that ain'-a-happenin' any time soon, for a full spectrum of reasons.
The shame most of us in "The West" feel about all this, will not subside anytime this generation, and I hope lessons have been learned well (however I kind-o doubt it). And this is exemplified by the original willingness of Europe to take in the refugees.
In Canada, the refugees arrive to a very comfortable package that includes apartments and all sorts of goodies.

However...

There are a large number of Arab/Muslim people already residing in "The West" and are either landed immigrants or citizens of one country or another.
And I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of them, are well adjusted IT techs or whatever.
But as is as plain as the nose on your face, when you couple the hardships of trying to integrate yourself into a society that is completely different, with being visibly different, and the part of the world you came from has just been leveled, this creates a little friction. To say the least.

We could write a book on all this quite easily, but let's just summarize by say...ya I get it.

So...knowing all this, and granting the assumption that we're all at least educated people to some degree, I have a question.
If one wants to migrate to or live within the European society, benefiting from the lack of war and general chaos, would it not be wise to actually assimilate one's self into the society one has chosen to take refuge in?

To the larger question of Euro/Arab & Muslim relations, it is asking for trouble to be allowing mass migration of these refugees. Especially acknowledging recent history. The results cannot, and are not...good for anyone. All this hopeless exercise serves to do is aggravate an already tense situation. It's DUMB! And the results are NOT acceptable.

Finally...is the Euro empire on the outs? Ya probably. We're weak and have this overwhelming sense of entitlement.
We run around professing the wonders of our endless "rights" and "freedoms". We are so impressed with ourselves that we parade about like cocks in a hen house, telling everyone else that "Democracy" is the cure for everything from the sniffles to dictators. How DUMB is that?
But TODAY...we happen to have a HUGE military advantage over the Middle East, and the perhaps sad fact is...my wife, kids and family live in "The West".
Sympathy and understanding only goes so far...
#14827541
If one wants to migrate to or live within the European society, benefiting from the lack of war and general chaos, would it not be wise to actually assimilate one's self into the society one has chosen to take refuge in?


Yes, they should. Even if not to European countries, they should adjust to fit the culture and tradition of the country they reside in.

To the larger question of Euro/Arab & Muslim relations, it is asking for trouble to be allowing mass migration of these refugees. Especially acknowledging recent history. The results cannot, and are not...good for anyone. All this hopeless exercise serves to do is aggravate an already tense situation. It's DUMB! And the results are NOT acceptable.


Its political.
Before hand, not all of them are refugees. In Europe a large portion of the "refugees" are not from Syria or Iraq or the middle east in general but rather they're African migrants from all sorts of nations going through Libya and Morocco to Europe and saying they're refugees.
The main wars producing refugees are in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. And most of those refugees are in the surrounding countries like Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, Iran,etc. And they're in the millions. Each one of those countries hold similar if not greater number of refugees than that of Europe as whole, both registered and non-registered (turned migrants when started working).
Then take into account what happens to these refugees afterwords. Here comes in NGOs mainly from western or Gulf state funding. Whom would rent entire apartment blocks for the refugees, in hand raising rents. Make deals with retail corporations to give food cards to refugees for free, raising food prices. Paying most of the refugee's bills, and many more give aways. Then those refugees start working after some time, usually a year or so, and they can afford working for far lower wages and compete with native workforce. Thus increasing umemployment, increasing poverty, damaging the overall economy, lowering living standards,etc. Which makes people angry, and thus increase civil unrest and starts to destabilize the country.

This is how your governments and elites are doing economic warfare against some countries in the middle east. If you looked at the countries where the refugees are, you'd know why.

For the ones in Europe, you just have to let in some of the people who want revenge. Get a few terrorist attacks here and there. And you get public for further intervention. Because you know, war on terror.
A look at the propaganda pieces being produced and the constant fear mongering in core western countries is sufficient to tell you this. Only a blind person wont see the game after its been played constantly again and again for decades since post WW2 with only the subject changing.


And BTW, you keep complaining about terrorist attacks. Well, here is the thing about terrorist attacks and Islamist terror groups in general currently.
They're all funded by your allies in the gulf states with money gained from trade with you.
They all use weapons and equipment built and sent by you either directly or through your gulf allies.
And most of all, they all just happen to be targeting countries that are either hostile or simply refuse to submit to you and your gulf allies in about 99.99% of the times. Which in this case is us.

So while, yes, i do understand where you're coming from. I think its understandable where someone like me for example would be coming from when listening to people living in core western countries complaining about terrorism, generalizing about Muslims or Arabs or middle easterners in general, and blaming it on us. Instead of taking a look at what their governments and their allies are doing and how they're creating these problems.
#14827918
Try to understand...I'm a father of 3 kids about the same age as those who got blown to bits in Manchester.
As far as I'm concerned, the "kid-gloves" have been removed.
I lost all sympathy that day.

EDIT: We've known what ugly pricks most of our leaders are, for decades. Unfortunately for you and yours, the Islamist Nutcase Network got a British Arab convinced he should blow up kids in England. The sheer anger and outrage resulting from this is both palpable here, and most likely orchestrated. Ya...we know these things. I know these things. But as I said...it's now too late.
Last edited by Buzz62 on 28 Jul 2017 20:16, edited 1 time in total.
#14827929
And there are literally 100s of thousands of kids in other countries killed by NATO all over the world including in the middle east.
So you can stop with the crying when your side is far far worse.

If you're too worried and sad about those kids, then you'd have had atleast some problem with your governments going around killing kids in similar and younger ages all around under your name with your tax money funding it.

Any argument you ever make from the "emotional" or moral angle is automatically bullshit and should disregarded as long as you pay taxes and contribute to the system. Specially since you live in democratic countries.


You want an example of children being killed, over half a million children died of starvation, sickness, and as war casualties in Iraq due the sanctions and siege laid over the country by NATO. Which your country, yes Canada the "neutral and peaceful" country, participated in both phases of the war.
Including both military and logistic support. Which if you're wondering, is funded by your money.

So you probably should really stop the bullshit crocodile tears of yours.
#14827934
Thus I strongly suggest you and those like-minded people in the Middle East, come down on these religious freaks with a nuke.
Really man...nobody really wants abject ugliness and wholesale death.
And please, let's try not being absolutely naive here. Were the financial and military advantage with Syria, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, etc...we all know that they'd have done similar. This bullshit has turned many peace-nicks toward supporting any solution that puts a definitive end to this in our lands.
France just recently damn near elected an ultra-nationalist government. Merkle's days are numbered. Hungary, Italy, Switzerland, and so on...
The UN is now threatening to sue the Czechs because they don't want any more refugees. The same for the Poles I think.
This is OUR backyard, and we have bigger guns than you do. It's not pleasant, but it is human nature.

So ya...it might be a really good idea for you to put a big fat target on any religious freaks, and destroy this "movement", no matter how "just" you may think it is, IMMEDIATELY.
In the meantime, we'll try like hell to find people who desire power, who are actually not gonna abuse that power...
#14827938
@Buzz62

1. How the fuck am I supposed to do that? I have no control over anything politically. I don't rule over Iran and even if I was president I still wouldn't have control over Iran. You don't have control over your own country either since your idea of "isolation" is completely ignorant of just simple politics of the US and the world.

2. But would I support it? Of course I would. I don't see any harm in refugees. the Middle East already accepts thousands of refugees from Syria, Iraq, and Palestine. Just because the country does it doesn't mean I completely support the country.

3. Ok so? Ultra-nationalism is the thing that killed the Middle East i.e. the Abbasid Caliphate and was the thing that lead to the anti-intellectualism you see today. Ghazi was actually a nationalist and wanted Middle Eastern philosophy to be based on an Islamic framework rather than a filthy savage framework which he continues to undermine continuously throughout his work similar to how you continue to undermine the Abbasid Golden Age and it's contributions.

4. You sound like a spoiled kid who screams to everyone on the playground that if they don't give him something or don't do something for him, he'll tell his "uber rich parents" when in actuality the parents don't give two fucks about the spoiled kid. America is a country full of diverse people and it's leaders aren't stupid enough to execute that fantasy of yours. You don't have some powerful army behind you that you can control at a whim. You have absolutely no political power at all and even if it did get traction a leader who tried to go about your proposal would be committing national suicide. It would cost so much resources and not big enough of a benefit. Alright you isolated the Middle East. All you did is basically protect the Middle East from any foreign powers and let it develop by itself. And what do you get in return? Protection from an organization (ISIS) that doesn't even have that much power to begin with.

5. I don't have the power to do that. Stop talking to me, talk to the government. WTF am I supposed to do?

6. Are you implying that he agrees with extremist religious movements like ISIS? WTF is wrong with you? If you can say that to him because he's Lebanese, I can say that you support the KKK because you are white. Remember, not all white people are KKK but all of the KKK is white.

7. Oh really? And what is your proposal? A political wet dream with no regard towards the general population. The West would collapse immediately if you did that since it cost so much resources, so much taxes, so much money, and so many lives that it's not even worth it. By the end of the isolation process the people would lose faith in the government, a government more concerned with the Middle East and less with the people it rules over.
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