ICE Announces Crackdown on MS13 Gang - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14828655
The Immortal Goon wrote:Let's keep on topic here, this is a citation from your own source:



In conjunction with the citation I gave for 2017, the trend is that gang related crime--especially in New York--has been plummeting for years.

Trump is going there to take credit for something he has nothing to do with. Which, fair enough, this is politics.

But a wise man wouldn't be fooled by this kind of charlatan hand waving.

Man, you are in denial. Anyway, it is ICE that is doing the crackdown, not Trump. Trump has just given them the go ahead to do it, because he is the law and order President. :)
#14828784
On iPad so I apologize for lack of links.
New York attributes the drop in gang crime to similar crackdowns such as Trump is supporting. New York was already doing it is all.
#14828810
One Degree wrote:True, but Obama's asylum policy did not help the situation.


1. What Obama did is a red herring.
2. I doubt that Obama's policies have had any effect.
3. You are contradicting yourself if you are saying that Trump is continuing Obama's policies and that Trump's policies are good while Obama's were not.
#14828814
Pants-of-dog wrote:1. What Obama did is a red herring.
2. I doubt that Obama's policies have had any effect.
3. You are contradicting yourself if you are saying that Trump is continuing Obama's policies and that Trump's policies are good while Obama's were not.

1. No it isn't.
2. Laws of probability say different.
3. You simply distorted my argument to make a meaningless accusation.
#14828817
One Degree wrote:1. No it isn't.
2. Laws of probability say different.
3. You simply distorted my argument to make a meaningless accusation.


Fine. Please provide evidence that Obama's asylum policy had an effect on Trump's continuation of Obama's policies.

Or whatever it is you are claiming.
#14828823
Pants-of-dog wrote:Fine. Please provide evidence that Obama's asylum policy had an effect on Trump's continuation of Obama's policies.

Or whatever it is you are claiming.

I don't understand the question. It is highly probable Obama's asylum policy allowed gang members easy access to the US. He was defeating his own war on gangs.
#14828865
One Degree wrote:I don't understand the question. It is highly probable Obama's asylum policy allowed gang members easy access to the US. He was defeating his own war on gangs.


Present evidence for this claim. Thanks.
#14828870
Pants-of-dog wrote:Present evidence for this claim. Thanks.

I already cited the laws of probability as my evidence.
If it is possible to cut and paste links from an iPad, I have not learned it yet. :D
#14828873
One Degree wrote:I already cited the laws of probability as my evidence.


So, no evidence. Okay.

If it is possible to cut and paste links from an iPad, I have not learned it yet. :D


http://www.insightcrime.org/news-analys ... wrong-ms13

    US President Donald Trump and Attorney General Jeff Sessions launched a rhetorical campaign this week against the MS13, one of the most violent gangs in Central America. But the verbal offensive by the president and the attorney general, as well as their statements on the origins and evolution of the gang, are for the most part false or misleading.
    ...
    On April 18, Trump tweeted that the "weak illegal immigration policies of the Obama administration" allowed the MS13 to develop in several US cities. The current president also said that his administration has been expelling gang members at rates never seen before.
    ...
    Trump blames former President Obama, but he may have been more correct if he had pointed the finger at Ronald Reagan. The MS13 and Barrio 18 street gangs were established in the 1980s in Los Angeles. At the beginning, they were made up of young undocumented migrants that came to California escaping the civil war in El Salvador. They were tuned in to rock music and took part in small-scale drug dealing. Some of them had received military or guerrilla-style training.
    As Salvadoran news outlet El Faro wrote about the origins of the MS13, very soon the gang began to articulate a violent ideology based by and large on opposition to rival gangs, most notably the Barrio 18.
    The gangs migrated to the US East Coast towards the end of the 1990s, as part of the migration waves that saw Latino communities looking for jobs elsewhere in the country. By the beginning of the 2000s, the MS13 began to catch the attention of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).
    Even the fact sheet the US Department of Justice (DOJ) released on April 18 to support Sessions's statements clearly says that the MS13 was born and began to expand before 2009; "The MS13 has been functioning since at least the 1980s," the report states.
    In 2004, under the George W. Bush administration, the FBI created a special unit targeting the MS13, after members of the gang committed some atrocious homicides.
    In 2006, Brian Tuchon, then-head of the FBI's special unit, told Salvadoran news outlet La Prensa Gráfica that the gang had settled in 42 US states, and had begun to participate in drug trafficking, chiefly as local distributors. Since that time, the FBI and the US State Department have maintained that gangs like the MS13 do not play an important role in the international drug trafficking chain.
    The MS13's expansion is directly related to the evolution and migration of Central American communities into the United States, and also with the large-scale deportation campaigns that began towards the end of the Bill Clinton administration and intensified during George W. Bush's two terms in office.

So, according to organised crime professionals, MS13's rise occurred before Obama's presidency, and is a result of Reagan, Clinton, and Bush.

Finally:
https://www.imore.com/how-quickly-copy- ... -your-ipad
#14828879
Pants-of-dog wrote:As long as we agree that the evidence contradicts your claim that the presence of MS-13 in the US was significantly helped by Obama's policies.

That, even though phrased as a contradiction, actually supports my point. Obama's policy would encourage continued illegal immigration. I never said he was the original cause. Illegal immigration was the cause and Obama encouraged it.
#14828882
WTF?

Evidence that directly contradicts your cliam magically suppports your claim?

At this point, you are more or less deliberately ignoring reality in order to continue believing your incorrect claims.
#14828885
What specifically do you find wrong with my reasoning?
I have so far not judged the legitimacy of your source, even though it is a .org.
I believe my reasoning is clear without getting into that. Obama encouraged illegal immigration which is how this gang was formed and how it continued to increase its numbers based upon your source.
#14828958
Hindsite wrote:it maybe because you are not a wise man.


So no argument...No response...No capital letter at the beginning of the sentence.

Image

I've established a timeline, motive, citations, and even used your own sources. You can only resort to name-calling. Presumably you feel very sad and don't know how else to express your irrational anger.
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