[Buzz62]

I did. In the other thread.

In this thread, Bulaba, Prosthetic Conscience, and others have already gone over this with you.

To continue to claim that the white supremacists were not responsible for any of the violence is objectively incorrect. You are, of course, free to continue this claim, but at this point, you would look either stupid or intellectually dishonest to do so.

NO!
A. NOBODY can say for sure who threw the first punch, but we can say for sure who moved from their assigned place of protest to confront the UTR gang.
B. It is NOT "objectively incorrect" its "objectively correct". That's because the FACTS of the timeline clearly show the Antifa crowd BLOCKING THE PARK.
But please continue. I figure every time you fine folks lie, you lose another centerist vote.

Sure. No one is disputing any of that.

Does it change the fact that the guy yelling racial epithets is instigating the violence? No.

Instigating? We're now down to "instigating"?
Read the LAW. A person can be arrested for disturbing the peace. That is NOT assault.
But again...keep it up POD.
oops...there goes another one...

[ArtAllm]

Guess what would've happened if white supremacists didn't rally in a multi-racial city?

Do races exist, or are they just a "construct"!

In another thread some other leftist tried to convince me, that races do not exist.

But multi-racial cities and affirmative actions (de facto institutional anti-white discrimination) do exist, so race is not something imagined, it is reality that cannot be undone by "deconstructing" the races or by repeating the mantra about "diversity is our strength".

Diversity is a weakness, a handicap!

Diversity+Proximity=Balkanisation.

Why?
Because the losers will always blame the "others" for their own deficits.

Peaceful segregation seems to be the only non-violent solution to the artificially created multiculturalism/multiracism.

[Pants-of-dog]

NO!
A. NOBODY can say for sure who threw the first punch, but we can say for sure who moved from their assigned place of protest to confront the UTR gang.
B. It is NOT "objectively incorrect" its "objectively correct". That's because the FACTS of the timeline clearly show the Antifa crowd BLOCKING THE PARK.
But please continue. I figure every time you fine folks lie, you lose another centerist vote.

If no one can say for sure who did what, then you are being intellectually dishonest to claim you know that the white supremacists were not responsible for any violence.

Please provide evidence for the claim that the antifa crowd blocked a park.

Instigating? We're now down to "instigating"?
Read the LAW. A person can be arrested for disturbing the peace. That is NOT assault.
But again...keep it up POD.
oops...there goes another one...

No one said that disturbing the peace is the same as assault.

But calling someone racial slurs is definitely an attempt to provoke violence.

[Buzz62]

If no one can say for sure who did what, then you are being intellectually dishonest to claim you know that the white supremacists were not responsible for any violence.

Please provide evidence for the claim that the antifa crowd blocked a park.



No one said that disturbing the peace is the same as assault.

But calling someone racial slurs is definitely an attempt to provoke violence.

Here's a picture of the park, and the police and the 2 groups.

The red lines in the photo above illustrate the area blocked off my local and state police. The white arrow shows the route taken by members of the alt-right, and the yellow arrow shows the path taken by a majority of the antifa and Black Lives Matter protesters toward the event.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/16/an-ex ... tion-park/
What were the BLM/Antifa people doing at Emmancipation Park? They were NOT supposed to be within 2 or 3 blocks of Emancipation Park, at another park.
Here's a personal account from an Antifa person:

Postdoctoral fellow at the Luce Project on Religion and Its Publics at UVA

It was basically impossible to miss the antifa for the group of us who were on the steps of Emancipation Park in an effort to block the Nazis and alt-righters from entering. Soon after we got to the steps and linked arms, a group of white supremacists—I’m guessing somewhere between 20-45 of them—came up with their shields and batons and bats and shoved through us. We tried not to break the line, but they got through some of us—it was terrifying, to say the least—shoving forcefully with their shields and knocking a few folks over. We strengthened our resolve and committed to not break the line again. Some of the anarchists and anti-fascist folks came up to us and asked why we let them through and asked what they could do to help. Rev. Osagyefo Sekou talked with them for a bit, explaining what we were doing and our stance and asking them to not provoke the Nazis. They agreed quickly and stood right in front of us, offering their help and protection.

AGAIN!
What the fuck were these people doing there?
Blocking the entrance to Emancipation Park.
ERGO, who's responsible for the violence?

[Pants-of-dog]

Here's a picture of the park, and the police and the 2 groups.


http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/16/an-ex ... tion-park/
What were the BLM/Antifa people doing at Emmancipation Park? They were NOT supposed to be within 2 or 3 blocks of Emancipation Park, at another park.

Your evidence does not show that antifa blocked the park. Nor does it show them at Emancipation park.

Double fail.

Here's a personal account from an Antifa person:

Wow. You sure got a lot wrong there.

That was not written by an antifa person, as they clearly discuss how antifa approached them after the white supremacists attacked their group and entered the park.

AGAIN!
What the fuck were these people doing there?
Blocking the entrance to Emancipation Park.
ERGO, who's responsible for the violence?

According to your evidence that you just cited, the white supremacists are responsible for violently plowing through the group of counter protesters, and they did this before any antifa showed up.

[Buzz62]

Your evidence does not show that antifa blocked the park. Nor does it show them at Emancipation park.

Double fail.

From the personal account:

It was basically impossible to miss the antifa for the group of us who were on the steps of Emancipation Park in an effort to block the Nazis and alt-righters from entering.

Some of the anarchists and anti-fascist folks came up to us and asked why we let them through and asked what they could do to help. Rev. Osagyefo Sekou talked with them for a bit, explaining what we were doing and our stance and asking them to not provoke the Nazis. They agreed quickly and stood right in front of us, offering their help and protection.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Wow. You sure got a lot wrong there.

That was not written by an antifa person, as they clearly discuss how antifa approached them after the white supremacists attacked their group and entered the park.

Fine..."counter-protestor"...happy?

According to your evidence that you just cited, the white supremacists are responsible for violently plowing through the group of counter protesters, and they did this before any antifa showed up.

The UTR people were SUPPOSED to go to the park, because they were APPROVED to use that park. These fine "Counter-Protestors" were physically blocking them from entering the park. PHYSICALLY OBSTRUCTING them. Assault.

[Pants-of-dog]

From the personal account:

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Fine..."counter-protestor"...happy?

So antifa blocked the park along with counter protesters after the white supremacists had already entered the park.

And this was after the white supremacists used violence against the counter protesters.

So your claim that the timeline showed how antifa attacked the white supremacists as they went into the park is wrong.

The timeline seems to be:

1. Counter protesters set up a block at the entrance to Emancipation park.
2. White supremacists attack them and go into the park.
3. Antifa show up and support the already attacked counter protesters.

The UTR people were SUPPOSED to go to the park, because they were APPROVED to use that park. These fine "Counter-Protestors" were physically blocking them from entering the park. PHYSICALLY OBSTRUCTING them. Assault.

No. Standing or sitting in someone's way is not assault.

[Buzz62]

So antifa blocked the park along with counter protesters after the white supremacists had already entered the park.

SOME yes...hence the re-locked arms and commited to not letting more through. READ POD!

And this was after the white supremacists used violence against the counter protesters.

So your claim that the timeline showed how antifa attacked the white supremacists as they went into the park is wrong.

The timeline seems to be:

1. Counter protesters set up a block at the entrance to Emancipation park.
2. White supremacists attack them and go into the park.
3. Antifa show up and support the already attacked counter protesters.

No. Standing or sitting in someone's way is not assault.

Assault
What is an Assault?

Many people believe that assault refers only to a violent physical attack. In fact, the word assault is used in law to describe a number of different actions with a wide range of seriousness.

Under the Criminal Code, an act can be considered an assault even if there is no actual physical contact. However, words alone cannot be an assault. There must also be a gesture or some other action that leads to harm or the threat of harm.

An assault can include any of the following acts...

intentionally applying force to a person, such as hitting, poking or shoving them

attempting to apply force to a person, whether or not actual contact is made

threatening with an act or gesture to apply force to another person, causing them to believe they are in danger

carrying a weapon, or what appears to be a weapon and blocking another person's way, accosting them or begging

http://www.plea.org/legal_resources/?a= ... at=8&pcat=
Assault.

[Pants-of-dog]

Your cited text says nothing about more white supremacists coming through later.

Also, your definition of assault requires someone to be holding a weapon while blocking someone's way. Since the white supremacists were the ones wielding weapons when they pushed through the counter protesters, the counter protesters were not assaulting anyone.

[Buzz62]

Your cited text says nothing about more white supremacists coming through later.

Also, your definition of assault requires someone to be holding a weapon while blocking someone's way. Since the white supremacists were the ones wielding weapons when they pushed through the counter protesters, the counter protesters were not assaulting anyone.

Boy I'm glad you are not really a lawyer.

[Pants-of-dog]

Since you have not refuted my points, it seems I need not be a lawyer to show how your claims are incorrect.

[Buzz62]

Since you have not refuted my points, it seems I need not be a lawyer to show how your claims are incorrect.

Refuted?
I laughed at you points...

[Pants-of-dog]

Yes, exactly.

Do you have any further arguments?

[Buzz62]

You know how I feel about addressing stupidity POD...drop it.

[ArtAllm]

You know how I feel about addressing stupidity POD...drop it.

I admire your patience!

[Pants-of-dog]

You know how I feel about addressing stupidity POD...drop it.

So that's a no, you don't have any arguments.

Anyway, I was interested in where you got the testimony from the counter protesters. Apparently, it came from here:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... ville.html

Let us look at the rest of it:

On Tuesday, after a weekend that included a white supremacist mowing down and killing a peaceful counter-protester in Charlottesville and Nazis marching on the University of Virginia with torches, the president of the United States stood in front of the American people and said, “What about the ‘alt-left’ that came charging at, as you say, the ‘alt-right’? Let me ask you this: What about the fact they came charging—that they came charging with clubs in their hands, swinging clubs? Do they have any problem? I think they do.”

There were, as it turns out, a great number of Charlottesville locals present to witness the violence and lawlessness on display in this town—my town—last weekend. I asked local witnesses, many in the faith community, every one of whom was on the streets of Charlottesville on Saturday, whether there was a violent, club-wielding mob threatening the good people on team Nazi. Here’s what I heard back:

Brandy Daniels
Postdoctoral fellow at the Luce Project on Religion and Its Publics at UVA

It was basically impossible to miss the antifa for the group of us who were on the steps of Emancipation Park in an effort to block the Nazis and alt-righters from entering. Soon after we got to the steps and linked arms, a group of white supremacists—I’m guessing somewhere between 20-45 of them—came up with their shields and batons and bats and shoved through us. We tried not to break the line, but they got through some of us—it was terrifying, to say the least—shoving forcefully with their shields and knocking a few folks over. We strengthened our resolve and committed to not break the line again. Some of the anarchists and anti-fascist folks came up to us and asked why we let them through and asked what they could do to help. Rev. Osagyefo Sekou talked with them for a bit, explaining what we were doing and our stance and asking them to not provoke the Nazis. They agreed quickly and stood right in front of us, offering their help and protection.

Less than 10 minutes later, a much larger group of the Nazi alt-righters come barreling up. My memory is again murky on the details. (I was frankly focused on not bolting from the scene and/or not soiling myself—I know hyperbole is common in recounting stories like these, but I was legitimately very worried for my well-being and safety, so I was trying to remember the training I had acquired as well as, for resolve, to remember why I was standing there.) But it had to have been at least 100 of them this go around. I recall feeling like I was going to pass out and was thankful that I was locked arms with folks so that I wouldn’t fall to the ground before getting beaten. I knew that the five anarchists and antifa in front of us and the 20 or so of us were no match for the 100-plus of them, but at this point I wasn’t letting go.

At that point, more of the anarchists and antifa milling nearby saw the huge mob of the Nazis approach and stepped in. They were about 200-300 feet away from us and stepped between us (the clergy and faith leaders) and the Nazis. This enraged the Nazis, who indeed quickly responded violently. At this point, Sekou made a call that it was unsafe—it had gotten very violent very fast—and told us to disperse quickly.

While one obviously can’t objectively say what a kind of alternate reality or “sliding doors”–type situation would have been, one can hypothesize or theorize. Based on what was happening all around, the looks on their faces, the sheer number of them, and the weapons they were wielding, my hypothesis or theory is that had the antifa not stepped in, those of us standing on the steps would definitely have been injured, very likely gravely so. On Democracy Now, Cornel West, who was also in the line with us, said that he felt that the antifa saved his life. I didn’t roll my eyes at that statement or see it as an exaggeration—I saw it as a very reasonable hypothesis based on the facts we had.

Rabbi Rachel Schmelkin
Congregation Beth Israel

There was a group of antifa defending First United Methodist Church right outside in their parking lot, and at one point the white supremacists came by and antifa chased them off with sticks.

Rebekah Menning
Charlottesville resident

I stood with a group of interfaith clergy and other people of faith in a nonviolent direct action meant to keep the white nationalists from entering the park to their hate rally. We had far fewer people holding the line than we had hoped for, and frankly, it wasn’t enough. No police officers in sight (that I could see from where I stood), and we were prepared to be beaten to a bloody pulp to show that while the state permitted white nationalists to rally in hate, in the many names of God, we did not. But we didn’t have to because the anarchists and anti-fascists got to them before they could get to us. I’ve never felt more grateful and more ashamed at the same time. The antifa were like angels to me in that moment.

Mary Esselman
Writer

My 13-year-old son and I stood by ourselves on the corner down the street from the synagogue, in front of the Catholic Church, trying to walk back home but interrupted by a stream of white extremist marchers, with their signs and firearms and crazy regalia. I felt like an idiot but tried to look each in the eye and said, “Peace,” and “Peace be with you,” with as much sincerity as I had in me, trying to reach some humanity in them, and they jeered and mocked me, called me what you might imagine, told my son, Luke, that his mom was a this and a that. And now I learn that my son and labradoodle and I, and our little “peace be with you”s are apparently “alt-left.”

Our path home was blocked by them, and we had no choice but to face them. Just us alone on that street corner, and all of them menacing, streaming past us on their way to the rally. Later, when we were a block away from where everyone was clashing and considering going to the front steps of the public library, there was a big line of white supremacists, the leader wearing some kind of yellow spiked helmet, and as they tromped toward the rally, these lovely older women standing beside us wearing sky blue T-shirts that said “Quaker” kind of trotted alongside them gently, holding signs that said “Love.” Alt-left for sure. I was armed with my iPhone and my dog’s leash. Luke was armed with his acne and hormones.

Rev. Seth Wispelwey
Directing minister of Restoration Village Arts and consulting organizer for Congregate C'ville

I am a pastor in Charlottesville, and antifa saved my life twice on Saturday. Indeed, they saved many lives from psychological and physical violence—I believe the body count could have been much worse, as hard as that is to believe. Thankfully, we had robust community defense standing up to white supremacist violence this past weekend. Incredibly brave students held space at the University of Virginia and stared down a torch-lit mob that vastly outnumbered them on Friday night. On Saturday, battalions of anti-fascist protesters came together on my city’s streets to thwart the tide of men carrying weapons, shields, and Trump flags and sporting MAGA hats and Hitler salutes and waving Nazi flags and the pro-slavery “stars and bars.”

Out of my faith calling, I feel led to pursue disciplined, nonviolent direct action and witness. I helped lead a group of clergy who were trained and committed to the same work: to hold space on the frontline of the park where the rally was to be held. And then some of us tried to take the steps to one of the entrances. God is not OK with white supremacy, and God is on the side of all those it tries to dehumanize. We feel a responsibility to visibly, bodily show our solidarity with the oppressed and marginalized.

A phalanx of neo-Nazis shoved right through our human wall with 3-foot-wide wooden shields, screaming and spitting homophobic slurs and obscenities at us. It was then that antifa stepped in to thwart them. They have their tools to achieve their purposes, and they are not ones I will personally use, but let me stress that our purposes were the same: block this violent tide and do not let it take the pedestal.

The white supremacists did not blink at violently plowing right through clergy, all of us dressed in full clerical garb. White supremacy is violence. I didn’t see any racial justice protesters with weapons; as for antifa, anything they brought I would only categorize as community defense tools and nothing more. Pretty much everyone I talk to agrees—including most clergy. My strong stance is that the weapon is and was white supremacy, and the white supremacists intentionally brought weapons to instigate violence.

[SpecialOlympian]

I never give up... I'll never stop defending nazis. You hear me!? God damn, some normie is going to read all 111 pages of this thread and be like, "Wow. SpecialOlympian is so cool, look at how he defends nazis in the face of all evidence."

Fucking come at me bro, my patience and love for nazis is limitless.

[Buzz62]

They were blocking the gate to the park POD.
Ergo...assault.

[SpecialOlympian]

Yeah, that's how assault works. If you stand in someone's way you get to run them down with your car and then say they assaulted you. Good thing the peaceful, misunderstood nazis have you as their champion.

Also: Here's a fun article on how badly their big gaybaby protest has fractured and fucked the alt-right lol.

The audio and chat discussions that were released show Unite the Right attendees talking about running over protesters, discussing what weapons to bring, and openly talking about violence against counter-demonstrators. In the wake of Heather Heyer’s death, participants openly congratulated themselves on the murder, joked and memed about it, and also strategized for future, more violent confrontations while discussing bringing firearms.

It could very well be that the logs released by Unicorn Riot combined with the lawsuit from those injured could in fact sink the Alt-Right much like the Southern Poverty Law Center lawsuit against Aryan Nations was successful in ultimately shuttering the white supremacist compound.

In the meantime however, key rally organizers and participants, namely Jason Kessler, Eli Mosley, Nathan Damigo, and Richard Spencer, are all back peddling, falling out with each other, and attempting to change the narrative to make themselves appear as victims in a vast conspiracy [aided by not-so-well intentioned and gullible fools on the internet who who think the RCMP can protect you from online meanies]. Moreover, they are also laying the blame of Charlottesville squarely on a variety of actors, from It’s Going Down to local police to government officials to the supposed Jewish background of other members of their own movement.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Buzz62

Not according to the definition that you cited.

As I said, that would require weapons, again according to the definition you cited.