[Buzz62]

So you are blaming the people who got hit by the car for being hit by the car and excusing the guy who actually tried to hit them with a car.

Ya in a way.
Stupid is as stupid does, POD.
In this case "stupid" realized a tragic loss of life. But the ever-so-true and painfully simple rule applies...yet again.
"YA GITS WHAT YA PAYS FER!"
Do I like what happened? Fuck no!
Do I support these "Nazis" as you so colourfully, yet so very incorrectly label these white supremacist people? Fuck no!
But do I support their "right" to legally and peacefully congregate and espouse their concerns and opinion? Hell Ya!

POD you're usually found defending one human rights cause or another.
Yet to read your prose here, it looks like you only thing these "rights" are for your like-minded buddies.

And you are also apparently arguing that we should sit quietly by while racist bullies threaten us.

No I'm not at all.

In my analogy, my son get what he asked for by being stupid. Further to that analogy, after tending to any injuries my stupid son might have had, I would explain to him why he's "stupid", and then find a WISE method of dealing with the hornet's nest.

[Saeko]

Since comparison with other terrorism always comes up, one difference is that you'll generally not find any right wing publication or person that will turn the perpetrator into a victim who was alienated and somehow made to commit an atrocity by society. There is a small sub-group on the right which are extremists or will sympathise with extremists, yet the vast majority will not only not sympathise with this person, but will treat him as what he is: a vile murderer and not a victim.

[KS mod note: Topics merged.]

100%

This attack was a barbarous and unjustifiable act. Anyone who believes that this was an accident or acceptable seriously needs to stop and think things through for a while.

[One Degree]

Weird responses. Never once did I defend the driver. The eyewitness accounts were from the news. I assumed people posting would actually read the news reports. Every post that has attempted to draw attention to the actual facts is met with one line nonsense, insults, and accused of being a Nazi.
Is it possible for a liberal to create a post that is not insulting?
What are the facts we know, or do you care?
Did the car hit pedestrians or another car? Do we know for sure?

[B0ycey]

Since comparison with other terrorism always comes up, one difference is that you'll generally not find any right wing publication or person that will turn the perpetrator into a victim who was alienated and somehow made to commit an atrocity by society. There is a small sub-group on the right which are extremists or will sympathise with extremists, yet the vast majority will not only not sympathise with this person, but will treat him as what he is: a vile murderer and not a victim.

Do you care to respond to this @One Degree?

[maz]

Edit: @maz You are a courageous, thoughtful person and I salute you.

No problem sir. The issue of freedom to assemble far outweighs the car crash. No one even knows why it happened, or what was going on through the person's head when he crashed. Everyone is just speculating and trying to get gain sympathy points for the unhinged anti-freedom, anti-free speech counter protesters.

[mikema63]

@One Degree And we are back to how you like to pretend you aren't defending the indefensible. You literally tried to cloud the issue and cast doubt about it. That is defending it.

[One Degree]

Do you care to respond to this @One Degree?

Yes, I would like to know all the facts before condemning someone as a terrorist.

[Saeko]

Weird responses. Never once did I defend the driver. The eyewitness accounts were from the news. I assumed people posting would actually read the news reports. Every post that has attempted to draw attention to the actual facts is met with one line nonsense, insults, and accused of being a Nazi.
Is it possible for a liberal to create a post that is not insulting?
What are the facts we know, or do you care?
Did the car hit pedestrians or another car? Do we know for sure?

The facts are that 19 people were injured and one is dead. The car drove full speed into a crowd of people.

[B0ycey]

Yes, I would like to know all the facts before condemning someone as a terrorist.

What have you been reading/watching the past 24 hours? It obviously wasn't the news. Even people on the right are literally condemning this act because they have opened their eyes when watching a video. You are more interested in some agenda that you will not post a thread about.

[One Degree]

The facts are that 19 people were injured and one is dead. The car drove full speed into a crowd of people.

Well, if he was going full speed then it is absolutely amazing he was able to drive away. Do you also know why he did?
I once found my vehicle surrounded by people yelling racial slurs at me. In my attempt to drive away I almost hit some old man on a bike. Of course this further angered the people around me. You see, people are not rational and they are prone to jumping to erroneous conclusions. That is why reasonable people withhold immediate judgment.

[Stormsmith]

Ya in a way.
Stupid is as stupid does, POD.
In this case "stupid" realized a tragic loss of life. But the ever-so-true and painfully simple rule applies...yet again.
"YA GITS WHAT YA PAYS FER!"
Do I like what happened? Fuck no!
Do I support these "Nazis" as you so colourfully, yet so very incorrectly label these white supremacist people? Fuck no!
But do I support their "right" to legally and peacefully congregate and espouse their concerns and opinion? Hell Ya!

So do I. But they have no right yet to drive a vehicle into a crowd of people. This guy couldn't be sure he wasn't taking out people supporting alt-right.

POD you're usually found defending one human rights cause or another.
Yet to read your prose here, it looks like you only thing these "rights" are for your like-minded buddies.

I see Pants of Dog as making distinction based on whether or not the agents intentions and in this particular case, action, are lawful and not as a popularity contest.

In my analogy, my son get what he asked for by being stupid. Further to that analogy, after tending to any injuries my stupid son might have had, I would explain to him why he's "stupid", and then find a WISE method of dealing with the hornet's nest.

Yes. Probability of disaster. I agree one must consider risk, but all the blame is all the murderer's.

Besides, if everyone stayed home in '39, the Nazis would have prevailed.

[Saeko]

Well, if he was going full speed then it is absolutely amazing he was able to drive away. Do you also know why he did?

Well, he was going full speed because you can clearly see in the video that he was going full speed.

I once found my vehicle surrounded by people yelling racial slurs at me. In my attempt to drive away I almost hit some old man on a bike. Of course this further angered the people around me. You see, people are not rational and they are prone to jumping to erroneous conclusions. That is why reasonable people withhold immediate judgment.

You're seriously full of shit.

[Buzz62]

Are you saying the Nazis are so sub-human that their intelligence and ability to reason can be compared to insects? That they are so unable to think, that shouting slogans back at them will inevitably drive them to murder? Even then, whacking a hornet's nest puts the hornets in danger of death, and the hornets do not put your son at risk of death; while a counter-protest against the Nazis did not put them at risk, but driving a car through the crowd did kill, and has put several more lives at risk. In short, your "simple and obvious" analogy is a pile of crap that doesn't stand up to a moment's thought.

The NAZIS died off years ago.
Their WHITE SUPREMACIST beliefs, have carried on. The only reason you even use the label, it to invoke emotional response.

"compared to insects"

Ya...a person died. Several were injured. Pretty bad results huh?
The "counter protest" was impromptu and not approved.
They could have arranged an approved gathering to oppose these white supremacist. And considering that it looks like a number of them were carrying firearms...that might have been the WISE course of action...eh?

This is "simple" common sense.
Something the PC crowd have lost...along with the blessed White House...BECAUSE of the contradictory "rules" the PC crowd are foisting upon society.
Trumpy is a result of Political Correctness run amuck.
You try coming to grips with that...and I'll try "feeling" a little more sympathy for "stupid" people.

[B0ycey]

I once found my vehicle surrounded by people yelling racial slurs at me. In my attempt to drive away I almost hit some old man on a bike. Of course this further angered the people around me. You see, people are not rational and they are prone to jumping to erroneous conclusions. That is why reasonable people withhold immediate judgment.

OMG! Are you implying that he was driving down the street, minding his own business and accidentally hit some people on his way home from a rally?

[One Degree]

@Ibn Taymiyyah
Is that you again Tewodoros III?
The rest of your responses don't deserve being responded to.

[Prosthetic Conscience]

Well, if he was going full speed then it is absolutely amazing he was able to drive away.

Why is that amazing? A car is made out of steel, and quite able to withstand collisions with humans.

Do you also know why he did?

We don't know for sure yet; it is possible he is mentally ill. But he was pictured earlier at the rally, among the Nazis (he was holding a fascist symbol), looking calm. It seems most likely he decided to try and kill some counter-protesters.

I once found my vehicle surrounded by people yelling racial slurs at me. In my attempt to drive away I almost hit some old man on a bike. Of course this further angered the people around me. You see, people are not rational

I can see that your attempt to drive away might or might not have been 'rational' (they were only slurs), but the anger of people when you nearly hit someone on a bike was perfectly rational. You might have killed him. You were, presumably, deeply ashamed of your panic and inability to control your car.

and they are prone to jumping to erroneous conclusions.

You certainly are.

The NAZIS died off years ago.
Their WHITE SUPREMACIST beliefs, have carried on. The only reason you even use the label, it to invoke emotional response.

No, I used it because they marched with swastika flags. They wanted to be seen as Nazis.

Ya...a person died. Several were injured. Pretty bad results huh?

Yes. I already said the results were bad. Why the 'huh'? It's far worse than getting stung by hornets.

The "counter protest" was impromptu and not approved.
They could have arranged an approved gathering to oppose these white supremacist. And considering that it looks like a number of them were carrying firearms...that might have been the WISE course of action...eh?

Your 'simple common sense' seems to be "let odious people do what the hell they want, without protest, and let them intimidate whole towns". Objecting to fascism is not "political correctness"; but what you suggest is appeasement, not common sense.

[Ibn Taymiyyah]

@Ibn Taymiyyah
Is that you again Tewodoros III?
The rest of your responses don't deserve being responded to.

When will trump take away your healthcare?

[Buzz62]

So do I. But they have no right yet to drive a vehicle into a crowd of people. This guy couldn't be sure he wasn't taking out people supporting alt-right.

Agreed. he too can be labeled as "stupid". Funny how stupidity begets stupidity eh?

Yes. Probability of disaster. I agree one must consider risk, but all the blame is all the murderer's.

The murderer...and let's be clear...it certainly does appear this was not an accident but "murder"...should be executed. No doubt about it. Driving a car into a peaceful and approved demonstration, or any crowd of people, earns a person a one way trip to the dirt IMO.
Extenuating circumstances like real war excluded. But one cannot analyze this tragic event HONESTLY, and find a TRUE resolution to the issue this event exposed, if one abjectly refuses to examine ALL of the FACTS! And the PC crowd never fails to define FACTS as the one-sided and immensely emotional response to negative stimuli.

My wife said something interesting this morning. She said that she finds she agrees with some of the sentiments of these white supremacists. That she can see how the European white people are being told how bad they are all the time, and how a group of people would take offense to this idea. Maybe even show up at a rally like this one, for that very reason.
Does that make the person a "white supremacist"?
She proposed that allot of the people in this demonstration, might simply have been everyday people who felt the pressure of the ever-lovin PC movement. And I think that too should be considered here.

Besides, if everyone stayed home in '39, the Nazis would have prevailed.

Dude...isn't that a bit of a stretch?

[One Degree]

@Prosthetic Conscience
Having driven an ambulance several years told me steel cars come apart like tissue paper when impacted at full speed. 'Full speed' is obviously inaccurate and was only inserted for emotional impact.

The purpose of my story was people assumed I intentionally tried to hit someone because of the emotional environment. In other circumstances, they would not have come to the same conclusion.

[Beren]

Let's come together as one with neo-Nazis and the KKK? Because they still haven't been condemned by the president, have they? That's how a true uniter is, very presidential indeed!